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 Back to Three Divisions

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Rudas



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PostSubject: Back to Three Divisions   Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:04 pm

The NBIAA membership voted to go back to A,AA, and AAA at the AGM today starting this September for at least the next three years. THe vote was close. Needed 40 votes for 50% plus 1 and there were 43 yes votes. Interesting how the vote went. Practically all the french schools voted no and many of the large AAA schools who would not be affected also voted no. Looks like a final 12 for harbour station!
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obcnamtaf



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:58 pm

so the 3 divisions again...is it same formula as 3 yrs ago ?... top 30% AAA ,middle 30% AA ,bottom 40% A or are they going by school populations....ie 0 to 300 students A , 300 to 700 - AA , and 700+ AAA ??
Anybody know what schools end up at each level , how will it affect conferences ?? ie will West and South have to interlock now ?
Just wondering
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:56 am

3 levels again. In terms of the options that were going to be allowed to be made this is clearly the best one for more participation in sports in rural areas. Whether it is better for basketball we'll have to wait and see if teams that have realizsed they can be in the top 4-5 in against larger schools move up or if they just play them in exhibition and stay down to be top 1-2 in their own.

I like three levels in that in allows JV to be more developmental for more teams, hopefully sports that dropped off or disappeared will be back at schools.

My biggest concern personally is how close the vote was. I don't like this notion that every 3 years we have a referendum on how divisions are set up and depending on how the last three years went for a half dozen schools the divisions could alter again. If you are a really big or small school its not such a big deal, but borderline schools (Dalhousie, Fundy, Nackawic, Woodstock, Carleton North, Hampton, John Caldwell, ODY, etc etc) are going to prepare grade 9 (or younger) kids for a varsity future that may not exist when they are in grade 11 -12.

I also think most of the AAA schools voted to keep it the same not because it didn't impact them but because it meant no interlocked schedules so their travel money and time could be spent on exh tournaments rather then league games.
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salmonking



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:32 am

When we will know about the alignment, Who will make up the AA North? (Dalhousie & Campbellton). Dalhousie is going to be a single A school soon enough.
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Rudas



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:46 am

It will be by school population and not percent. Up tp 299 A, 300-699 AA, 700+ AAA. Woodstock is the largest AA school, and Aux quatre vents as well as Dalhousie are the smallest, Minto High is the largest A school. Nackawic, Petitcodiac and John Caldwell will all drop back into the A division. I'm sorry coach but Hampton has 740, Woodstock 687, ODY 764, and Carleton North 632. Surely you can find a few bodies in there to develop your JV program and then a varsity one. Actually I believe we'll see that with CN this year. They look good.
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Maripac30



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:37 am

Heard a rumour today that although Dalhousie (average 310 or so) would be an AA school in the new alignment, because of the substantial drop in school population (they are projected to have 255 next year and the number will keep going down) that they could apply to play at the A level.
Wouldn't that be ironic for the schools in the Northern A conference who voted for the new system so they wouldn't have to travel to Dalhousie and Campbellton
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:25 pm

Rudas wrote:
It will be by school population and not percent. Up tp 299 A, 300-699 AA, 700+ AAA. Woodstock is the largest AA school, and Aux quatre vents as well as Dalhousie are the smallest, Minto High is the largest A school. Nackawic, Petitcodiac and John Caldwell will all drop back into the A division. I'm sorry coach but Hampton has 740, Woodstock 687, ODY 764, and Carleton North 632. Surely you can find a few bodies in there to develop your JV program and then a varsity one. Actually I believe we'll see that with CN this year. They look good.

My concern is acutally not with program development but what you do to kids that you are developing. 3 years ago a bunch of teams of kids who had been playing towards something suddenly found out they suddenly had a chance to win or their chances just became a whole lot worse. Same thing just happened in reverse. 3 years from now middle school kids and grade 9 kids next year building towards a common goal will have that goal changed. Based on how close the votes are there is a real chance that the same schools can be put through the ringer every three years.

I don't really care personally (on a personal level I would rather play AAA everything or play locally regardless of size so our athletes are required to play the largest and best in the province regularly) but we'll play whereever we get placed.

I'm just imgaining situations where 3 years from now you get the needed 51% to change from population # to population percentage to get more teams evenly spread. Or someone comes up with another proposal.

If next year you are a grade 9 boy in St. Stephen and you see your peers win titles in AA and you play AA JV and then AA southwest and have some good games, but then you get in 12 and suddenly you are in AAA again and they are in the same situation they've been in the last 3 years. Or the Jon Caldwell girls who are going to have little to no competition in the A west for the next 3 years and be near the top of A ladder during that time. Someone comes along in Grade 9 behind playing lighter competition in the league then suddenly the year they are in grade 12 could be tossed into Carleton North, Rothesay, Woodstock with there were a precentage shift etc. On the other side GM suddenly can try to rebuild/gorw their tradition and program in a more competitive environment for them with no ability to assure their younger kdis it will be that way when they get there.

I don't know how you build tradition or long term expectation if there is a real chance it will be different every 3 years. Had the decision to move it this year been more unanimous I would be less concerned. If you want communities and parents/players to really buy into school sports (in communities where they don't) you need to be able to offer them stability and long term goals. Just one mans opinion.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:18 pm

salmonking wrote:
When we will know about the alignment, Who will make up the AA North? (Dalhousie & Campbellton). Dalhousie is going to be a single A school soon enough.

I would assume like all of AA basketball they will not be able to have a single regional division and have to interlock NE. By my best reckoning there might be 12-13 schools that will register AA basketball programs with only 2 in the north, 4 in the east, 3 in the south, 3-4 in the west.
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Coachmac



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:25 pm

Good post. Not much I can find to disagree with there.

CoachDJR wrote:
Rudas wrote:
It will be by school population and not percent. Up tp 299 A, 300-699 AA, 700+ AAA. Woodstock is the largest AA school, and Aux quatre vents as well as Dalhousie are the smallest, Minto High is the largest A school. Nackawic, Petitcodiac and John Caldwell will all drop back into the A division. I'm sorry coach but Hampton has 740, Woodstock 687, ODY 764, and Carleton North 632. Surely you can find a few bodies in there to develop your JV program and then a varsity one. Actually I believe we'll see that with CN this year. They look good.

My concern is acutally not with program development but what you do to kids that you are developing. 3 years ago a bunch of teams of kids who had been playing towards something suddenly found out they suddenly had a chance to win or their chances just became a whole lot worse. Same thing just happened in reverse. 3 years from now middle school kids and grade 9 kids next year building towards a common goal will have that goal changed. Based on how close the votes are there is a real chance that the same schools can be put through the ringer every three years.

I don't really care personally (on a personal level I would rather play AAA everything or play locally regardless of size so our athletes are required to play the largest and best in the province regularly) but we'll play whereever we get placed.

I'm just imgaining situations where 3 years from now you get the needed 51% to change from population # to population percentage to get more teams evenly spread. Or someone comes up with another proposal.

If next year you are a grade 9 boy in St. Stephen and you see your peers win titles in AA and you play AA JV and then AA southwest and have some good games, but then you get in 12 and suddenly you are in AAA again and they are in the same situation they've been in the last 3 years. Or the Jon Caldwell girls who are going to have little to no competition in the A west for the next 3 years and be near the top of A ladder during that time. Someone comes along in Grade 9 behind playing lighter competition in the league then suddenly the year they are in grade 12 could be tossed into Carleton North, Rothesay, Woodstock with there were a precentage shift etc. On the other side GM suddenly can try to rebuild/gorw their tradition and program in a more competitive environment for them with no ability to assure their younger kdis it will be that way when they get there.

I don't know how you build tradition or long term expectation if there is a real chance it will be different every 3 years. Had the decision to move it this year been more unanimous I would be less concerned. If you want communities and parents/players to really buy into school sports (in communities where they don't) you need to be able to offer them stability and long term goals. Just one mans opinion.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:58 am

So looking ahead to 3 divisions should create much more excitement around the the final 12.

In my head and on some paper I've been trying to come up with lists of potential front runners. Sad forum members may have to abandon the top tenlists in favour of top 4-5 lists now. With the exceptioin of perhaps A boys, I can't think of a division with more then 3-4 teams that could compete to win the whole thing. In AAA boys/girls and AA Boys/girls there are 3 maybe 4 teams who can compete with each other and who will be substantially better then everyone else. A girls will have 2-3 top teams and then some people that can hope to compeat. ANyone else with thoughts?
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bballer2



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:05 am

i'm just courious as to the 3 or 4 teams that will compete in each level on the girls side? A/AA/AAA
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:24 am

My best guess at this point (and summer/fall is a long time for things to happen)

A Girls - GM, RNS, Caledonia

AA Girls - Tantramar, Woodstock, Rothesay, Carleton North

AAA Girls - Riverview, Bernice McNaughton, Fredericton, LHHS, KVHS
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bballer2



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:41 am

i am not very familiar with AA girls and the schools that are now AA- so i don't know which teams would be the strongest according to the list from coachdjr. Maybe someone is?
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pastprimetime



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:22 pm

It will be even more interesting once the time for re-classification has gone by. In girls for example Woodstock is applying to be AAA and Rothesay has traditionally gone AAA to avoid travel expense. Also some of the new AA programs may opt to goback to being exhibition considering they were being beaten up in last years classifications. I can see a western conference of Carlteon North and Southern Vic. a southern Conference of Fundy, St. Stephen.
In Girls A I would not count out John Caldwell, their whole team is returning, plus adding a good grade 8 crop.
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Maripac30



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:49 pm

Rumour out of Dalhousie is that the Soccer and Volleyball teams are going to remain AA as is makes more sense for them travel/league wise but that both basketball teams will be applying to go A
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obcnamtaf



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:21 pm

Maripac30 wrote:
Rumour out of Dalhousie is that the Soccer and Volleyball teams are going to remain AA as is makes more sense for them travel/league wise but that both basketball teams will be applying to go A

Interesting....who makes the final decision on appeals such as these ? Do other schools in the affected conferences have a say , or is it just the NBIAA exec committee ???
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:04 pm

Don't quote me I really don't know for sure. (Searching of the NBIAA website/handbook revealed no answers either).

If memory serves, and it has been a while since I've been involved with this sort of scenario. I think in order for them to move up a classification it is just executive approval (looking at leagues they would leave, and enter and implications) but to move down I think it is executive and the approval of all schools in the league that would be effected by their entrance.

Again this isn't any confirmed knowledge just me recalling what has happened locally in the past. The past being 5+ years, so who knows what the regs are now. Since they don't appear to be written anywhere.
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GM Breaker '84-'88



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:41 pm

Rudas wrote:
It will be by school population and not percent. Up tp 299 A, 300-699 AA, 700+ AAA. Woodstock is the largest AA school, and Aux quatre vents as well as Dalhousie are the smallest, Minto High is the largest A school. Nackawic, Petitcodiac and John Caldwell will all drop back into the A division. I'm sorry coach but Hampton has 740, Woodstock 687, ODY 764, and Carleton North 632. Surely you can find a few bodies in there to develop your JV program and then a varsity one. Actually I believe we'll see that with CN this year. They look good.

Although I think it's good, why would Petitcodiac drop back to 'A' ? Do they not have more than 299 students? Also, wasn't Woodstock going AAA even before they switched to two divisions? I assume they will stay there....
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HisAirness



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:43 pm

The NBIAA has posted it listing of divisions: http://www.nbiaa-asinb.org/userfiles/file/School%20Classification%2011-14%20-Conferences(1).pdf
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:54 pm

GM Breaker '84-'88 wrote:


Although I think it's good, why would Petitcodiac drop back to 'A' ? Do they not have more than 299 students? Also, wasn't Woodstock going AAA even before they switched to two divisions? I assume they will stay there....

See below for the data. Woodstock's average is still under 700 so they may apply to play up with 1 or 2 of their basketball teams but will definietly play AA in all other sports and most of their basketball teams. Petti is well under 300. Here are the numbers they are using to determine the divisions:

Enrollment 08-10 2/16/2011
District School Name 2010 2009 2008 Average
18 Fredericton High School 1935 1910 1947 1931
18 Leo Hayes High School 1735 1800 1778 1771
17 Oromocto High School 1249 1247 1254 1250
02 Moncton High School 1197 1258 1249 1235
02 Riverview High School 1148 1171 1179 1166
08 St. Malachy's Memorial High School 1120 1164 1165 1150
08 Saint John High School 1113 1121 1131 1122
08 Simonds High School 1078 1116 1162 1119
03 Cité des Jeunes A.-M.- Sormany 1026 1113 1178 1106
06 Kennebecasis Valley High School 1068 1068 1089 1075
05 École secondaire Népisiguit 1000 1053 1062 1038
01 École Mathieu-Martin 971 1025 995 997
08 Harbour View High School 965 998 1001 988
02 Bernice MacNaughton High School 912 954 928 931
06 Sussex Regional High School 899 923 945 922
02 Harrison Trimble High School 874 925 936 912
09 Polyvalente W.-Arthur-Losier 834 903 944 894
16 Miramichi Valley High School 864 895 911 890
01 École L'Odyssée 767 764 760 764
15 Bathurst High School 744 750 749 748
06 Hampton High School 728 741 751 740
16 James M. Hill Memorial High School 701 744 726 724
14 Woodstock High School 654 708 698 687
11 Polyvalente Louis-J.-Robichaud 650 662 673 662
10 St. Stephen High School 637 662 681 660
09 École Marie-Esther 589 652 696 646
09 Polyvalente Louis-Mailloux 609 631 664 635
06 Rothesay High School 618 659 625 634
14 Carleton North High School 648 640 609 632
11 École Clément-Cormier 558 590 592 580
02 Tantramar Regional High School 485 510 573 523
03 Polyvalente Thomas-Albert 443 456 502 467
15 Sugarloaf Senior High School 428 466 455 450
10 Fundy High School 410 438 431 426
05 Polyvalente Roland-Pépin 365 412 459 412
16 Bonar Law Memorial School 400 391 401 397
01 École Sainte-Anne 395 389 394 393
14 Southern Victoria High School 369 385 366 373
02 J.M.A. Armstrong/Salisbury Middle School 333 336 372 347
11 École Mgr-Marcel-François-Richard 286 319 344 316
15 Dalhousie Regional High School 297 313 334 315
05 Aux quatre vents 290 303 335 309

17 Minto Memorial High School 267 275 276 273
14 Nackawic Senior High School 256 275 274 268
02 Petitcodiac Regional School 211 255 286 251
14 John Caldwell School 221 230 231 227
14 Hartland Community School 227 213 209 216
09 Centre scolaire-communautaire La Fontain 191 211 211 204
02 Caledonia Regional High School 194 197 221 204
03 Polyvalente A.-J.-Savoie 176 192 206 191
06 Belleisle Regional High School 179 191 188 186
Rothesay Netherwood School 186 179 192 186
14 Tobique Valley High School 168 184 196 183
18 Harvey High School 190 186 167 181
18 Central New Brunswick Academy 170 177 191 179
16 North & South Esk Regional High School 164 173 174 170
03 École Marie-Gaétane 154 161 172 162
16 Blackville School 152 157 172 160
01 Centre scolaire Samuel-de-Champlain 148 160 166 158
10 Grand Manan Community School 152 160 160 157
17 Chipman Forest Avenue School 138 132 155 142
18 Stanley Regional High School 117 123 117 119
11 École Secondaire Assomption 113 114 116 114
10 Sir James Dunn Academy 118 94 112 108
03 École Grande-Rivière 80 104 106 97
18 McAdam High School 72 72 83 76
14 Canterbury High School 75 74 79 76
14 Saint Mary's Academy 54 64 84 67
11 École Régionale de Baie-Sainte-Anne 71 63 64 66
17 Cambridge-Narrows Community School 56 59 64 60
Moncton Christian School 50 58 57 56
Devon Park 50 58 57 55
11 École Carrefour Beausoleil 51 56 48 52
10 Campobello Island Consolidated School 45 44 47 45
Sussex Christian School 43 44 46
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pastprimetime



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:18 am

Interesting breakdown for AA GIRLS for example. alot depends on how much movement the NBIAA will allow. For example I only count 12 AA schools who have traditionally fielded a team. Some of those like ESA have often choosen to go exhibition when faced with playing up in AA, Rothessay has often chosen to play AAA when forced into interlockling play based on budgetary,District 10 is mandating the use of school busses, for a young team like Fundy the cost/reward may be better served by playing exhibition in the A league. Woodstock wants to stay AAA with girls anyway, Dakhousie is looking to drop to A based on this years enrollemtn of 250 and dropping.
If these were to come true AA would only have 8-9 teams. In the West it could be just Carleton North and Southern Vic. In the North just Sugarloaf who is mainly 9-10 so may decide on a different route. The South with St. Stephen, Hampton, The East Bonnar Law, JMA Armstrong, Tantramar,
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:30 am

There is a lot of potential movement:

Here is what I know in the south-west:

St.Stephen
CNHS
Fundy
Southern Vic

are all planning on fielding varsity AA teams in boys and girls.

In the rumour mill:
- Woodstock Girls applying to AAA
- Rothesay may have some/all teams applying to play AAA.
- ESA may register exhibition or not depending on league make up.
- RNS girls may be applying to move up to AA.

In the north -east (I'm less familiar).

Most likely to have varsity teams in boys and girls:
-Tantramar
-JMA
-Bonar Law
- Sugarloaf? (Not sure on their girls status)

Rumour mill:
-Dalhousie applying to drop
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Coachmac



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:36 am

JMA Girls will be having a Girls varsity and an exhibition team. AA. Not sure what the boys side will be. Most likely a varsity and JV team.

CoachDJR wrote:
There is a lot of potential movement:

Here is what I know in the south-west:

St.Stephen
CNHS
Fundy
Southern Vic

are all planning on fielding varsity AA teams in boys and girls.

In the rumour mill:
- Woodstock Girls applying to AAA
- Rothesay may have some/all teams applying to play AAA.
- ESA may register exhibition or not depending on league make up.
- RNS girls may be applying to move up to AA.

In the north -east (I'm less familiar).

Most likely to have varsity teams in boys and girls:
-Tantramar
-JMA
-Bonar Law
- Sugarloaf? (Not sure on their girls status)

Rumour mill:
-Dalhousie applying to drop
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bballer2



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:47 am

Tantramar will field a AA boys and girls team, and should have a very strong showing. Woodstock would more than likley go to final 12 if they stayed AA with girls or maybe Rothsey. Now it's Rothsey and Tantramar on the girls side that should be the strongest.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Back to Three Divisions   Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:07 pm

I think reclassification requests for winter were due in last night. Anybody have an idea of a timeline on when schools should hear back?

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