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 New format for basketball this year

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coachc



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PostSubject: New format for basketball this year   Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:34 pm

There is a new format for both boys and girls basketball this year. Instead of the old tier one tier two and then divide tier one into A/AA and AAA/AAAA divisions, what the NCSSAA has decided to do is to have teams declare before the season starts if they are going tier 2, tier 1, or Ofsaa. This was done in volleyball last year and the NCSSAA must have liked it because we now have it in basketball. There may be divisions with in each of these tiers but nothing has been stated explicitly how that will be determined. I would doubt that there will be tiers for the ofsaa division as I would not anticiapte a large number of teams. Also, if a tier one team wins the championship they cannot go to ofsaa. They have to be in the ofsaa division from the beginning of the season. I believe that the reason for this was to separate the teams with legit ofsaa aspirations from the teams that should be playing tier one but have chosen to play tier two in order to avoid the top end tier one teams. This way, teams in tier two should be legit tier two teams and those in tier one should be competitive with each other even though they might have lost handly to the ofsaa teams. Some teams will have some very interesting decisions to make before their season starts.

I would anticipate some obvious choices for girls ofsaa tier would be Louis Riel, Woodroffe, Glebe, St. Matts, Longfields, St. Peters, but if that is all that choose ofsaa tier then that would be a rather small tier of teams competing against each other all season. How would the playoffs work? Then you get other teams that could compete with the above mentioned teams and may even beat them, but they might choose to play tier 1 to have a better shot at a championship, but are not necessarily interested in trying for an ofsaa birth.

In the boys league, you might see St. Pats, St. Petes, Earl, SRB, Deslauriers, Ashbury, Louis Riel, and St. Matts going ofsaa division but with two AAAA births plus the other three ofsaa births up for grabs, you might seem some other teams go up to play. It will be yet another interesting twist to high school ball in the capital region.
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CoachCadieux



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PostSubject: Quick Question   Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:20 am

Do you know how NCSSAA proposes to select the representing teams of the AAAA/AAA/AA/A divisions?
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McCoach



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:16 pm

I think this is a step in the right direction grasping more at an athlete development and sport for life view. But will it really keep the competitiveness that Ottawa basketball has become? This will be a great system for the girls but I am not sure about whether or not it will work for the boys. The first year might be interesting for the boys!

I just wish that the jr system would change from the 4 seeding games and then 6 league games then play-offs. I think it would be more effective to run a tournament to seed teams, then have an 8 game season.
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CoachCadieux



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:31 pm

I fully agree... I think once the details are clarified it can generate competitive basketball...
One of the details would be … Do the OFSAA Divisions teams declare what group they want to represent (A/AA/AAA/AAAA) at the beginning of the year or can they announce it at the end after they have experienced the level of competition in each group?
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coachc



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:26 pm

My understanding is that the ofsaa spots are determined by the playoffs. What I mean by this is that if there are two single a teams that want to playoff for single a ofsaa birth then the winner goes. If one of the teams wants to vie for one of the other ofsaa spots (AA/AAA/AAAA) then they would have to declare that before playoffs. Same would go for any AA schools that want to vie for a AAA/AAAA spot. I am not 100 percent sure that is the case, but I would assume so. One of the tricky things this year is that AAA/AAAA technically have three spots as we are hosting AAAA ofsaa and thus a team in AA that may think they will not win the one AA birth but could contend for one of the three AAA/AAAA births might choose to move up as there are more chances of getting to ofsaa.

As for McCoach's suggestion to have a tournament for juniors rather than a 4 game round robin, I am not sure how this will help any situation. If it were a tournament, you would have a good idea of who the top tier one teams would be, but how will you know where the rest fit. That is, any team that does not make the quarter finals would all be basically the same ranking at the end of the tournament, unless losing teams keep playing each other. If that is the case, then the tournament would be huge, take a long time, and be very costly, thus highly unlikely. I agree that the format is not perfect, but it does make sure that some teams who should have been going tier one and not tier two, indeed play tier one. Perhaps a suggestion would be to have the system in place but add to it that coaches can request to play tier one if they want to so that no team is relegated to tier two if they would rather play tier one.
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CoachCadieux



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:42 pm

From my understanding, this is not a new concept; I think it was used with volleyball and soccer…
One of the views on it is that it creates 3 tiers… OFSAA, Tier 1 (non OFSAA) are now your Tier 2 and Tier 2 is now a Tier 3…
Right?
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McCoach



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:56 pm

Cadieux, essentially, yes it does now create 3 levels. However, it will increase the competitiveness of all 3 levels as you are more likely to play against teams of your caliber. The teams that are contenders for ofsaa or that want to compete with the best will go to the ofsaa(tier1), The weaker non-ofsaa contenders and the stronger tier two teams will go into tier 1(tier 2) and the weaker teams that can barely scrounge up 6 players or don't have any real players can now go into tier 2(tier 3) and compete against similar teams instead of getting beaten big by the strong tier 2 team that could have gone tier one but didn't because they couldn't compete for ofsaa.

This year you will likely see teams like Lisgar,Rideau and Sammy G from the East and Holy Trinity, Merivale and Franco Ouest move up to the new tier 1 (along with others). Teams from last years tier one like Pius, Nepean, Bell, Glebe, Sir Will, and Colonel By will go into the new tier 1. These are just examples based on last year's records not on anything from this year.
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jamal crawford 1.1



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:18 pm

McCoach wrote:
Cadieux, essentially, yes it does now create 3 levels. However, it will increase the competitiveness of all 3 levels as you are more likely to play against teams of your caliber. The teams that are contenders for ofsaa or that want to compete with the best will go to the ofsaa(tier1), The weaker non-ofsaa contenders and the stronger tier two teams will go into tier 1(tier 2) and the weaker teams that can barely scrounge up 6 players or don't have any real players can now go into tier 2(tier 3) and compete against similar teams instead of getting beaten big by the strong tier 2 team that could have gone tier one but didn't because they couldn't compete for ofsaa.

This year you will likely see teams like Lisgar,Rideau and Sammy G from the East and Holy Trinity, Merivale and Franco Ouest move up to the new tier 1 (along with others). Teams from last years tier one like Pius, Nepean, Bell, Glebe, Sir Will, and Colonel By will go into the new tier 1. These are just examples based on last year's records not on anything from this year.

Im certain that St Pius is a much better team than you give credit and probably would beat all these teams handily in the new tier 1.
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McCoach



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:26 pm

jamal crawford 1.1 wrote:
Im certain that St Pius is a much better team than you give credit and probably would beat all these teams handily in the new tier 1.

I have nothing against Pius, and you are likely right that they would beat most of the mentioned teams. However, would they compete with the ofsaa contenders? I don't know the Pius team well enough to say whether or not they will be able to compete in ofsaa or tier 1. I am just guessing on last year's stats.
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baller29



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:01 pm

in this new ofsaa format will aaa/aaaa teams be in the same pool as the a/aa teams? and does this mean that theres going to be a smaller cap for number of teams in ofsaa tier compared to the tier 1 system from before? So how are the single a schools going to workout in this new system? last years season there were only 2 single a schools deslaurier and ottawa islamic school, lets just say ottawa islamic school issent at the level to play in ofsaa tier so does this mean that deslaurier gets a automatic berth to ofsaa? with this new system will there be less a/aa schools in the ofsaa tier if the leauge will base team preformance on who gets to play in ofsaa tier?
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coachc



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:57 pm

There is not really a cap of teams that can play at either of the levels. In the girls season (who also have this new format) there is only 7 teams in tier one and the rest of the teams are either ofsaa or tier two. The teams get to choose which division they would like to play. As for the question of will a/aa/aaa/aaaa all be in the same playoffs, my understanding is that they will be split up come playoff time. In the girls side, Ashbury is listed as a single a school so there might be three schools in the boys side competing for the right to represent at ofsaa. Also, it is not a straight qualification to ofsaa if you win our board single a championship as you will still have to play the winner from one of the other regions (eossa I believe but I could be wrong). If there is only one school in ofsaa division at a particular level (eg Deslauriers at single a) then that team would be an automatic rep for NCSSAA.
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CoachCadieux



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PostSubject: OFSAA   Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:39 am

I think that regardless of the format NCSSAA can send 1 team per category. The exception is when we host one of the tournaments, for example this year we will receive 2 AAAA births because we are the host city and 1 for AAA,AA,A.
The Single “A” category doesn’t automatically get a entry into the tournament, we must beat EOSSA top “A” team. (Trenton area)
From my understanding, OFSAA category would pool all of the teams interesting in competing for a chance of obtaining a birth to OFSAA based on size of school or skills. This category would be split EAST and WEST?
From my experience last year, this format would of helped us better prepare for OFSAA, I will be the first to admit that season play wasn’t competitive and not being part of the playoff race put us at a disadvantage.
My recommendation to the league at the end of the year before hearing about the new format was to allow “A” teams to compete in the playoffs against the “AA” teams. I think last year we would have seen LR vs. Desl in the finals. Similar to Sacred heart and Hillcrest we would of decided the outcome of category selection prior to the final game. EX: Sacred heart knew before the win against Hillcrest that they would compete in the AAAA category.
The reality, LR, ASH, OIS, DESL and I think Merival all fall under the “A” category…
‘A” is defined by the size of your school…Last year’s single “A” champs JL Foster from Windsor was a power house and could of easily competed in AAA
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baller29



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:53 am

I don't think that this new tiering system will be a benefit for basketball in Ottawa since its already competitive. the reason why they did it for volleyball last year is because the competition for volleyball in ottawa is very weak not much schools field volleyball teams. most of the catholic schools football teams overshadow volleyball thats why they want a smaller ofsaa division with 5 teams so that the elite teams will play each other over and over again so that there's better competition. I think that for basketball all the teams who in the past played tier 1 will remain in ofsaa division so the only benefit to this is that theres going to be a split in tier 2 where now there is 2 lower level tiers. this is going to make tier 2 even less competitive.
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CoachCadieux



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PostSubject: New System   Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:38 pm

Hopefully the new format has a positive impact on basketball in Ottawa.
Does anyone know the reason why they don't make the A/AA playoffs the same as the AAA/AAAA playoffs?
For instance last year, I felt A/AA should of competed in the same playoff brackets and if a A and AA are in the finals (Ex: LR and Deslauriers in 2010-2011), we can pre-select what team goes where based on what the schools declared at the beginning of the year.
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bbfan



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:34 pm

What level (A, AA, AA) is Longfields DH at. Lots of nice athletes but newer school?
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CoachCadieux



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PostSubject: Classification    Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:16 am

OFSAA classification is based on the size of your school first,
In NCSSAA, it’s defined as:
“A”: 1-500 students
“AA”: 501-901 students
“AAA”: 901-1250 students
“AAAA”: 1251 +
Some school may opt to go up a classification, for example…LR is going up to “AAA” and they only have 455 students (A)… The fact that they have that much talent in such a small school is impressive..As well, some school can elect to go down a classification if they are within a few students from the previous bracket…
Hopefully this answers your questions... as per the document on fatdog.ca Longfields DH is “AAA” with 1018 students…

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bbfan



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PostSubject: Re: New format for basketball this year   Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:27 pm

Thanks coach! I knew the numbers just never saw the document on Fatdog! Thanks for the help.
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