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 Referees calling the game

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poolie



Posts : 93
Join date : 2011-08-02

PostSubject: Referees calling the game   Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:42 pm

Do you think that the referees will call fouls, the way they are being told to call them? No excessive contact in post and no obstructing the cutters?
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CoachDJR



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Join date : 2010-01-22
Location : Southern NB

PostSubject: Re: Referees calling the game   Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:03 pm

I don't think it is anything to be overly concerned about. In reality it will most likely be like most years, totally dependent on where you are playing and who walks into the gym. You will still get some officials who are just trying to get in and out as fast as they can. You will get some who will call 70 fouls in even the most important games (so they can't even actually call it any tighter.) You could also get our better officials who will manage the game as that game and make the calls following the rules, tower principles and properly managing the action in the game and situation.

I doubt contact will be an issue: officials that want to let stuff go will let it go, officials that were going to call everything would have called it anyway, the ones who do a great job of managing a game you won't notice it effecting their ability to manage a game.

The perhaps more interesting will be how tight officials stay on the footwork. In the CIS and ACAA games I've seen they have been really committed to calling the footwork (much to the chagrin of coaches). Watched a CIS womens game where more then 20 travels were called. These are some of the best trained girls in Atlantic Canada and the country having their footwork result in 20 whistles. The footwork in most high school games is currently abysmal so there should be exponentially more whistles, but no one wants a game with no flow. I'll bee more interested in seeing how the footwork is addressed in high school and middle school games.

I know that you could make the same arguments for these calls as I made for fouls, but footwork is not a judgement call.
Any video or IRL evaluating of their performance on fouls they can give their interpretation of a situation, footwork is going to be properly called or not. Tough to say whether I'ld rather have games with no flow or my kids actually believe me when I tell them the footwork they use in practice is not good enough.

In reality I don't think you will notice much difference. Maybe some adjusting early in the year, but between differences in officials and most coaches' preferences for changing tactics to deal with problems rather then training methods it should all come out in the wash.
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poolie



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PostSubject: Re: Referees calling the game   Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:27 pm

I am not sure about the traveling call anyways, when have you ever been allowed to change pivot foot anyways. The one that bugs me the most is when your guard gets railroaded and forced out of bounds with no call
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Coachmac



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PostSubject: Re: Referees calling the game   Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:18 pm

CoachDJR wrote:
I don't think it is anything to be overly concerned about. In reality it will most likely be like most years, totally dependent on where you are playing and who walks into the gym. You will still get some officials who are just trying to get in and out as fast as they can. You will get some who will call 70 fouls in even the most important games (so they can't even actually call it any tighter.) You could also get our better officials who will manage the game as that game and make the calls following the rules, tower principles and properly managing the action in the game and situation.

I doubt contact will be an issue: officials that want to let stuff go will let it go, officials that were going to call everything would have called it anyway, the ones who do a great job of managing a game you won't notice it effecting their ability to manage a game.

The perhaps more interesting will be how tight officials stay on the footwork. In the CIS and ACAA games I've seen they have been really committed to calling the footwork (much to the chagrin of coaches). Watched a CIS womens game where more then 20 travels were called. These are some of the best trained girls in Atlantic Canada and the country having their footwork result in 20 whistles. The footwork in most high school games is currently abysmal so there should be exponentially more whistles, but no one wants a game with no flow. I'll bee more interested in seeing how the footwork is addressed in high school and middle school games.

I know that you could make the same arguments for these calls as I made for fouls, but footwork is not a judgement call.
Any video or IRL evaluating of their performance on fouls they can give their interpretation of a situation, footwork is going to be properly called or not. Tough to say whether I'ld rather have games with no flow or my kids actually believe me when I tell them the footwork they use in practice is not good enough.

In reality I don't think you will notice much difference. Maybe some adjusting early in the year, but between differences in officials and most coaches' preferences for changing tactics to deal with problems rather then training methods it should all come out in the wash.

I'd happily take a month with no flow, to reinforce what I have been saying. I also agree completely with the rest of your post. We must have been at the same CIS game.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Referees calling the game   Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:36 pm

poolie wrote:
I am not sure about the traveling call anyways, when have you ever been allowed to change pivot foot anyways. The one that bugs me the most is when your guard gets railroaded and forced out of bounds with no call

The travel calls I've been seeing that would worry me are not changing pivot foot, its the take off on dribble drives. Traditionally when players attacked with a right hand dribble at step unless the officials could clearly tell the ball was not out by the time the back foot was lifted then no call (not clearly a travel no call). The calls I've seen in university games thus far have been unless you can clearly see the ball is out first automatic travel (anything close = travel). Canada basketball has been pushing the cross over step/ mirror pivot foot to attack which gives you a clearer window to get the ball out. Anything where people are not using this that is not picture perfect seems to be a travel. Just what I've seen.

I would tend to agree with Coach Mac based on the lack of stance/balance and footwork my young kids seem to think is needed I would rather have my kids figuring out the right way now out of necessity. Though based on girls games I've seen the past few years you are going to have a lot of high school varsity games with 40-50 turnovers just on travels.

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Stripes



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PostSubject: Re: Referees calling the game   Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:41 pm

A few thoughts. Firstly, there are no rule changes. It was decided this summer that the stakeholders in Canada; CB, CABO, the provincial bodies and the game itself might benefit from having points of emphasis. The NCAA has been doing this for years. They are points to emphasize; saying that as officials we are not doing a good job in certain areas.

Secondly, Coach DJR you are bang on when you say that inconclusive travel calls that were ignored in the last few years are probably going to be called more this year. Some will say nothing is inconclusive, either it is or it is not a travel. But I watch alot of games on tape and at times it is virtually impossible to determine if the ball was released before the pivot foot was lifted. Or to see which foot is on the floor when the dribller picks up the ball. I personally do not like calling a travel unless I am a 100% certain that the player travelled. With these points of emphasis, some officials will naturally be calling travels that are inconclusive or plays that are awkward. Experience tells us that travel calls will decrease over the course of the season. Hopefully the footwork will improve and also officials will gradually be more lenient.

As for cutters and post play, the key is to use advantage/disadvantage. Two big post players battling hard is nice to see. But when dispacement is involved such as a defender displacing his opponent further from the basket, a foul has been committed. Bumping cutters is part of the game, but illegal bumping is when too much force is used or when illegally blocking the cutter.

I've highlighted below part of the document that was sent to officials, it's emphasizing rules that are already in place.

Regarding travelling:
(a) dribbler's illegal movement of the pivot foot before ball leaves the dribbler’s hands;
• (b) changing the pivot foot to set up for a shot especially on long range shot attempts;
• (c) illegal pivot foot movement by post players such as on “spin moves” or “changing pivot foot after the
reverse pivot”;
• (d) players who receive the ball on the run in transition who often fail to release the ball before lifting the
pivot foot when starting a dribble.

Regarding contact:
Three areas of focus have been identified for this season. They are
• (a) illegal bumping of a “cutter”;
• (b) excess contact in the post; and
• (c) illegal contact on dribblers that force dribblers off their intended path.
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PostSubject: Re: Referees calling the game   Today at 7:18 pm

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