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 blowouts in high school basketball

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nbsportfan



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PostSubject: blowouts in high school basketball   Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:17 pm

Just wondering what people think of one-sided games in high school basketball?

I read in the paper this weekend that FHS jr boys beat HVHS 123-24. And that the HVHS scored 14 of their 24 pts in the first half. I've heard that the coach for FHS was very vocal and pushing the boys right to the end.

I understand that coaches need to keep their kids sharpe and despite winning big or losing big, you should demand the best from your players at all times, but 123-24? Come on, surely something could be done!

What an embarrassment for FHS!
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20yearcoach



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PostSubject: Re: blowouts in high school basketball   Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:07 am

nbsportfan wrote:
Just wondering what people think of one-sided games in high school basketball?

I read in the paper this weekend that FHS jr boys beat HVHS 123-24. And that the HVHS scored 14 of their 24 pts in the first half. I've heard that the coach for FHS was very vocal and pushing the boys right to the end.

I understand that coaches need to keep their kids sharpe and despite winning big or losing big, you should demand the best from your players at all times, but 123-24? Come on, surely something could be done!

What an embarrassment for FHS!

100% agreed we do not only coach basketball but we teach life skills to these kids. Does a win by 30 or 60 or 100 really prove anything. The coach needs to look in the mirror
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: blowouts in high school basketball   Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:34 am

Now this topic is interesting. We seem to talk about it every couple of years.

First Issue - Why do blowouts happen?

I ‘ve been in meetings and heard coaches say that people should just build programs if they want to compete. “Its not our responsibility to look after their program!”

Now you’ve got some incredibly strong and committed basketball programs at schools or various sizes.

You've also got places in this province where you have kids and coaches that want to compete, but they are told they can have half a gym 2/3 times a week for 90 minute practices in season and out of season may not be in the gym at all. That isn't kids or coaches that is schools and communities.

You've got some schools that try to enforce fair play policies or no cuts playing under the same rules and in the same leagues as schools with multiple practice facilities, going 5-6 times a week in and out of sesason.

This is why blowouts happen!

There are also schools that know they are just putting in teams to improve and play hard that are subjected to teams made up of elite kids all interested in banners and playing at higher level.


Issue 2 - This is a loaded issue. I can see both sides of this and have been on both sides. Some issues I’ve mulled over:

- In most of blowouts, the best chance the weaker team has to score is to be playing an up and down game where their best athlete can make athletic plays. If the team being outclassed has to beat a superior team with their 1-2 best players in the half court vs. great defense they are less likely to score. This make keep the score down but would the losing players rather score 20-30 points and lose by 70 or lose by 45-50 and only score 15.

- Do we look at this issue differently if the teams have ask to be at a tournament with these teams vs. having to play them in league?

- While I agree with the sentiment of playing the bench kids, only if the blowout is a rare thing. Can you imagine working your tail off to be a starter and one of the best athletes in the province and then because your league is so weak you can only play 10-15 minutes a game 10-12-18?? times a year? They aren't 40 points better a couple of games a year. In every league game they have to play, the starters have to have sit and the coach/players wouldn’t be able ot play the way they train almost nightly. At some point if you are training kids to do something the kids who do it the best have to be allowed to do their thing.

- This may be a product of a sport culture in our province that is regionalized and compartmentalised. It is more important that my kids, my town, etc do well then promoting and improving the sport on a whole.

- There is also a huge disparity in what teams/coaches view as playing hard. There is a dramatic difference between pressing/trapping full court and token full court m2m defense, but people don't see that. You've got teams who can win a JV game by 100 and the feeling involved is they've just got to know whats coming. You've got other games at the same level where people are offended if people have starters in or are shooting 3's once their up 20 -30. Again you will even have officials who ask coaches to back off to half court once teams are up by a large enough score. This whole topic starts because you can't get a small group of people to agree on what is appropriate in this situation, let alone a whole province.

- Could you make a rule to fix some of this? IE. Point differential can never count as more than a +25 or +30 in terms of +/- in league play? If a school loses a first of two league games by a certain amount to an opponent they have the option of having the game count for both at the discretion of the loser?

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HisAirness



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PostSubject: Re: blowouts in high school basketball   Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:35 pm

I agree with CoachDJR. I would also like to add a few other points to ponder. Let me qualify a few things first. Im not from FHS nor frankly am I an FHS fan. I am however trying to see things from every side of this story.
I think we are all mad if you think this problem is not going to be a common theme this season this is one of the best FHS Jv teams, in comparison to the competition out there, that we have seen in years. Every time I read one of these posts we are talking about the kids that get beat and how it is not good for them. I agree in fact I have been on the other side of an FHS 60 point win before. I have also been in attendance for a few other of these such wins. That being said lets step back and see what “we” are asking these FHS players to do….. As a coach we are asking them to fall back in to a half-court defence. In every case this gets done by FHS ..we are asking them to run through offensive sets they do this…we are asking them to play their bench they do this also but what I guess some people here are not getting is the bottom 5 kids on the FHS Jv team virtually start in every other program in this province. So what would we like them to do? Not score on the offensive end ? Let the other team score on the defensive end ? Would we be happy if these kids just “took it easy” on defence? I’ll tell you what FHS does is drop into a half court game and play outstanding defence EVERY possession of the game, if you are not good enough to score then I’m sorry. As a coach I would never want to look my kids in the eye and tell them it’s ok to phone it in today. We need to stop pointing fingers at people and claiming that they are running up score. They are just demanding excellence in everything they do. Frankly the results speak for themselves so lets stop thinking of ways to make FHS play down to someone’s level and figure out how we can all play up to theirs………
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GM Breaker '84-'88



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PostSubject: Re: blowouts in high school basketball   Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:13 pm

20yearcoach wrote:
nbsportfan wrote:
Just wondering what people think of one-sided games in high school basketball?

I read in the paper this weekend that FHS jr boys beat HVHS 123-24. And that the HVHS scored 14 of their 24 pts in the first half. I've heard that the coach for FHS was very vocal and pushing the boys right to the end.

I understand that coaches need to keep their kids sharpe and despite winning big or losing big, you should demand the best from your players at all times, but 123-24? Come on, surely something could be done!

What an embarrassment for FHS!

100% agreed we do not only coach basketball but we teach life skills to these kids. Does a win by 30 or 60 or 100 really prove anything. The coach needs to look in the mirror

I also agree....not classy at all. There are multiple ways to avoid this...
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Sincerely Yours



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PostSubject: Re: blowouts in high school basketball   Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:31 pm

You should always expect your players to do their best. Just don't be a dickhead about it...
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poolie



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PostSubject: nbiaa   Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:53 pm

Maybe somehow there could be a two tier season where if you are going to get blown out of the water all year you are automatically bumped down a division. Second half of the season is worth double the points. That way you still have a chance to make playoffs.
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lebronrocks



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PostSubject: Re: blowouts in high school basketball   Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:51 am

Last evening , FHS 123 Hampton 13. Score at end of 1st quarter 38-1.Bottom line FHS is very good , Hampton , not so much :-D
Rumour has it that some of the BK players were asked to play varsity but declined. I guess they would rather beat up on teams like Hampton and Harborview than test their metttle vs Riverview and Kvhs.
Says a lot about the program and its players , don't you think. " Sport doesn't build character it reveals it" John Wooden
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Coachmac



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PostSubject: Re: blowouts in high school basketball   Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:32 am

lebronrocks wrote:
Last evening , FHS 123 Hampton 13. Score at end of 1st quarter 38-1.Bottom line FHS is very good , Hampton , not so much :-D
Rumour has it that some of the BK players were asked to play varsity but declined. I guess they would rather beat up on teams like Hampton and Harborview than test their metttle vs Riverview and Kvhs.
Says a lot about the program and its players , don't you think. " Sport doesn't build character it reveals it" John Wooden

I have no awareness of the situation at FHS. But, the key word in your post is "rumour". Then to make it worse, you are now adding your theory on top of that rumour. If they chose not to play varsity, you don't know what their reason may be. Maybe they didn't want to play as many games. Maybe they wanted to be with certain friends that were on the JV team, maybe their parents wanted them there, maybe they felt they would have more playing time on the JV team. Maybe, maybe, maybe...........

As for the blowout and the coach still pushing, I would like to see people actually be at attendance and with their filters removed when they are making comments. I read so many comments on this board that are "I heard". I'd love to have a $1 for every time something has got back to me that someone "heard" I did this or said that and there was zero truth to it.

Blowouts have happened, blowouts will continue to happen. I've been on both ends and sometimes short of throwing the ball in the stands, it's a lot harder than it looks to prevent a blowout. The only time I ever recall being upset was when a coach wouldn't let his team score and to me it became more like a game of monkey in the middle.

Ok, rant over.......carry on with your regularly scheduled programming.



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MillRat



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PostSubject: Re: blowouts in high school basketball   Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:25 am

Last evening , FHS 123 Hampton 13. Score at end of 1st quarter 38-1.Bottom line FHS is very good , Hampton , not so much :-D

Was this a league game for Hampton?
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Stripes



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PostSubject: Re: blowouts in high school basketball   Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:33 am

Nobody likes blowouts. Nobody likes rubbing it in. But if my team is up 50 points and I have a clear lane to the basket, am I supposed to back off. Isn't that also rubbing it in. As if I could have scored two points but I'm choosing not to. Th elosing team doesn't feel great about that either. Slow it down a bit with the big league, don't press but don't stop playing either.

Baseball has unwritten rules about stealing bases with a big lead. But even that gets confusing. If my team has a big lead and I'm first base and there is a wild pitch. Do I take second base? Some say no, stay there. I say take second base because staying at first is showing up the opponents more than taking the base.

Let's not so quick to knock the good teams. They're put in awkward position to say the least.


Last edited by Stripes on Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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student



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PostSubject: Re: blowouts in high school basketball   Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:44 pm

we go over this crap every year. fhs has the biggest school with the most kids to draw on every year. most schools have to take top jv players up to varsity. fhs does not. tough to compete with that.
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ThePhoenix



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PostSubject: Re: blowouts in high school basketball   Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:10 pm

Well lets think about this for a secound

Lets pretend you are coaching a team who has potential to go far. make some noise in playoffs. maybe even win?

during your year, whether you like it or not, your gonna face some weak times. So as a coach, you go into these games knowing that you are going to win. your team probebly knows for some games they are going to win. so should you take the night off? Only give 50-75% ? Or when a player does something they should like reach to much, or jump off of a fake, should you just let it slide?

I have never heard a coach say "Okay guys, go out there and give it ..... half of your all!" or "Its okay that just got five dumb fouls in a row, we are going to win anyway."
No. Coaches don't say that. a good coach will get on his team for the little things, even in blow outs. other wise they get bad habbits and in games that matter it will show. A coach tells his players to give it thier all! not slack off!

If you are blowing a team out, keep going. try your hardest. ofcourse you can always play some of your bench. that way they get some game experience to. but still try your hardest! Win the game and don't even look the score. Whether you win by 30 or by 80, you dont ever stop doing your best.

I should probebly get back to work though... or maybe not? Im better then most of the people at my work so maybe I only need to give 70 % effort today...
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