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 Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)

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PostSubject: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:02 am

Does anyone know if Kenny is aloud to play, or when he will be playing.
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And 1



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:03 pm

As far as i know he has been ruled ineligible for this year and will not be able to play

ballfan1 wrote:
Does anyone know if Kenny is aloud to play, or when he will be playing.
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:59 pm



I think that the transfer rules are too rigid and unfair to the players. I do not see how preventing Kenneth Monture from playing his senior year of basketball is a good result for anyone (except maybe for competing teams).
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ronh_pm



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:23 am

Even if the specifics of the rule make Monture ineligible his individual case should be looked at more closely. He has moved about 1000 miles from his catchement area and as far as I can tell the sole reason is so that he can play more competitive basketball in order to prepare himeself for a very possible college career; one that on the other hand, he may have no chance of obtaining by playing in his hometown of Terrace.

A few years back Mike Lewandowski and his entire family moved from Kelowna to Pitt Meadows in his Gr.10 year. This rule would have had him sit out the year though he and his family lived less than 10 minutes from the school. I'm not sure how sitting out a year would have affected his play but the end result of him playing is that he is now attaining a top level education at UBC, one that he may not have been able to get had he had to sit out.

I understand that rules are rules and were put in place to prevent kids and parents from abandoning thier catchment schools adhoc, but Monture does not seem to be breaking the spirit of the rule, only the letter of the rule and as such, I would like to see the rule have the flexibilty to look at each case such as his on it's merits.

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PostSubject: moving to advance your chances   Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:15 am

I think the main reason the rule was put in place was to keep players from moving for reasons related to their sport.
If Monture moved mainly to have a better opportunity within his sport, then he is a bad guy as far as most coaches seem to be concerned and I don't think having a look at his case specifically would help his case.
He should, according to the majority of coaches, have stayed at his old school no matter what that would have meant to his future.
It has NEVER been about a kid who wants to excel and is trapped in a program which does not offer what he needs. It is about protecting programs and coaches no matter their level of expertise or effort.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:02 pm

The rules have been in place for years and Monture family knew this and the chances they were taking when making this decission. The fact that they they used another boy on the teams address as his own shows that Monture and Walnut Grove were trying to work around the rules to hide the fact ..shame on both !!!


Pooch wrote:
I think the main reason the rule was put in place was to keep players from moving for reasons related to their sport.
If Monture moved mainly to have a better opportunity within his sport, then he is a bad guy as far as most coaches seem to be concerned and I don't think having a look at his case specifically would help his case.
He should, according to the majority of coaches, have stayed at his old school no matter what that would have meant to his future.
It has NEVER been about a kid who wants to excel and is trapped in a program which does not offer what he needs. It is about protecting programs and coaches no matter their level of expertise or effort.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:33 pm

As the last poster stated, by him using another player's address first is what got BC School Sports attention. If his Mom would have decided to move down here first and not after they were busted for the wrong address, I think he would be playing right now.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:35 pm

[quote="ronh_pm"]Even if the specifics of the rule make Monture ineligible his individual case should be looked at more closely. He has moved about 1000 miles from his catchement area and as far as I can tell the sole reason is so that he can play more competitive basketball in order to prepare himeself for a very possible college career; one that on the other hand, he may have no chance of obtaining by playing in his hometown of Terrace.

A few years back Mike Lewandowski and his entire family moved from Kelowna to Pitt Meadows in his Gr.10 year. This rule would have had him sit out the year though he and his family lived less than 10 minutes from the school. I'm not sure how sitting out a year would have affected his play but the end result of him playing is that he is now attaining a top level education at UBC, one that he may not have been able to get had he had to sit out.

I understand that rules are rules and were put in place to prevent kids and parents from abandoning thier catchment schools adhoc, but Monture does not seem to be breaking the spirit of the rule, only the letter of the rule and as such, I would like to see the rule have the flexibilty to look at each case such as his on it's merits.

[/quote]

Everybody knew about Lewie since he was in grade 7. Him coming to Pitt didn't give him any extra exposure, he could have stayed in Kelowna and still gone on to UBC.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:56 pm

JrCoachS wrote:
As the last poster stated, by him using another player's address first is what got BC School Sports attention. If his Mom would have decided to move down here first and not after they were busted for the wrong address, I think he would be playing right now.

I think none of the posters is aware of the situation - I do know it is not as simple as using another player's address.

It is a shame on basketball in BC that a player cannot move and play in a better program to improve his situation. I know this is a philosophical position that is meant to limit recruiting, but my preference is that players should be allowed to move wherever they want to pursue opportunist as they see fit. Why do we single out sports (as opposed to academics or other extra curricular activities) in such a way? Parents and players should be able to choose where they attend school and be able to participate in the full range of opportunities. The better players - prep school - (and more well-funded parents) will simply leave the province.
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Pooch



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:23 pm

I understand that in Alberta, a kid is allowed to change schools once.
I like the idea of kids being able to move to a program that provides what they are looking for...we all know there is a huge disparity between programs and coaches. Some programs practice twice a week and take a casual approach. The kid who really loves the game should have the opportunity to move to one that matches his motivation level.
I would think a rule that said any kid can move once up until the start of their grade eleven year would be best for kids while hopefully not seeing the wholesale moves that are feared.
There is no perfect answer but I think that rules that focus on taking care of the kids first are the way to go. Coaches will survive and so will any program that makes any kind of effort at all.
Today, with more and more schools struggling to provide good programs, kids should not be forced to play in inferior programs just because that is where they live while their neighbour gets to play in an excellent program just because he lives across the road.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:25 pm

Pooch wrote:
I understand that in Alberta, a kid is allowed to change schools once.
I like the idea of kids being able to move to a program that provides what they are looking for...we all know there is a huge disparity between programs and coaches. Some programs practice twice a week and take a casual approach. The kid who really loves the game should have the opportunity to move to one that matches his motivation level.
I would think a rule that said any kid can move once up until the start of their grade eleven year would be best for kids while hopefully not seeing the wholesale moves that are feared.
There is no perfect answer but I think that rules that focus on taking care of the kids first are the way to go. Coaches will survive and so will any program that makes any kind of effort at all.
Today, with more and more schools struggling to provide good programs, kids should not be forced to play in inferior programs just because that is where they live while their neighbour gets to play in an excellent program just because he lives across the road.

Well said, though I would be more liberal and allow one move at any grade - circumstances change.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:26 pm

When a player moves as far as Kenneth did it is USUALLY not a problem. There was some bad decision making made early in the process and it has resulted in BC School Sports making some resonable and unresonable demands.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:30 pm

I think kids and parents should be allowed to go where they want to, hard to argue why sports is singled out and not academics or extra curricular activities. Parents and players should also be careful what they wish for because I see a lot of kids that have transferred to a "better" basketball school sitting on the bench where if they had stayed locally they would be playing more and lets face it every high school baller wants to play. I also think many parents want their kids to be successful and being part of a winning program makes them feel warm and fuzzy but we all love sports because there are no guarantees and when people consider transferring they should be prepared to 1. See their kid ride the bench and 2. Not win. In the end of the day, (and I am just throwing this figure out there) less that 1% of high school players end of playing at any level of post secondary basketball so maybe playing for a team that is not great but adequately coached may be a better option than transferring. But, once again I think people should be able to go where they want to but 'Buyer Beware' as they say, everyone has the right to make a decision even it turns out to be a bad one.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:36 pm

JrCoachS wrote:

Everybody knew about Lewie since he was in grade 7. Him coming to Pitt didn't give him any extra exposure, he could have stayed in Kelowna and still gone on to UBC.

I was not referring to the exposure in Mike's case but the requirement that he would have to sit a year and how it may affect development and how playing the Lower Mainland competition as opposed to the interior competition and how it would help develop his game.

What if Mike had been playing for Vanderhoof raher than Kelowna? Would a player develop the same playing Smithers, Terrace and Burns Lake the same way he would playing WRCA, Yale and Vancouver College? Or even playing Osoyoos, Pentiction and Peachland?

Regarding exposure then, if a player outside of the lower mainland does not play provincial or club ball, how do they get exposure. Kelowna and Kamloops may travel to Vancouver a couple of times a year, as will some of the Island teams but if an SFU recruiter is looking at a list of names that all seem to fit his requirements, who will get the nod, the player living in Kelowna who he has seen twice or the one living in Burnaby that he has seen half a dozen times?

My point is, that I think each case should be looked at on it's merits and that a case where a player is not just moving across town, but across the province, should be given consideration.

And where to be honest then, looking at the principle of the rule then, where do "they" draw the line? How can a player transferring from Calgary be more eligible than a player transferring from Terrace?
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JrCoachS



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:49 pm

I get what your are saying Ron but you just have to look at the current SFU roster and you will see that kids are recruited from all over the province. In fact SFU even has a player from Vanderhoof! I don't think there are many kids who make it to the next level these days that aren't playing club or in the Basketball BC regional program.

Like I said earlier, Kenneth moving all the way to the lower mainland shouldn't have been a problem.
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:22 pm

JrCoachS wrote:
I get what your are saying Ron but you just have to look at the current SFU roster and you will see that kids are recruited from all over the province. In fact SFU even has a player from Vanderhoof! I don't think there are many kids who make it to the next level these days that aren't playing club or in the Basketball BC regional program.

Like I said earlier, Kenneth moving all the way to the lower mainland shouldn't have been a problem.

I am not sure why we need an infrastructure to regulate what is essentially a personal choice to changes schools and play basketball. I do not think we should sit in judgment about why someone chooses to pursue an opportunity as they see fit. We cannot protect people from their own choices and I do not think we should forbid young people from pursuing their athletic interests in any way - if they prefer another school they should go there. Why do we think we know better? Why should players be forced to out any time whatsoever? There seems to be a strong desire to control other people for their best interest. What if the same rule was put in place for teachers or coaches.....?
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:32 pm

JrCoachS wrote:
I get what your are saying Ron but you just have to look at the current SFU roster and you will see that kids are recruited from all over the province. In fact SFU even has a player from Vanderhoof! I don't think there are many kids who make it to the next level these days that aren't playing club or in the Basketball BC regional program.

Like I said earlier, Kenneth moving all the way to the lower mainland shouldn't have been a problem.

I am not a believer in kids jumping ship and running to a better program. Kids that leave their home school often are going to a magnet school that has a good reputation for basketball and attracts the top kids. I know there are ranked schools in BC where the head coach is getting great support from their junior coaches and transfers that make them look great.

Coaches take care of the kids that enter your school in grade 8 or 9 and develop those kids. You are doing your local kids a great diservice when you encourage transfers or even use your club team as a recruiting tool. It essentially cuts kids that were in the program from the start.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:22 pm

ronh_pm wrote:
A few years back Mike Lewandowski and his entire family moved from Kelowna to Pitt Meadows in his Gr.10 year. This rule would have had him sit out the year though he and his family lived less than 10 minutes from the school.

Ron you are incorrect in this case. If someone legally moves ther residence they are eligible to play immediately at their new school.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:42 pm

I just want to say you have to feel bad for certain kids who want to learn the game properly and transfer for this reason because their stuck with a coach (in their catchment) who never played basketball before and simply has no idea how to teach. In most schools there are bad teachers and good ones, if your son our daughter is a good academic student do you keep them in a bad school where teaching is secondary to discipline? no you send them to a better school without even an eyebrow raised. We need a system that allows kids to flourish without being punished.
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PostSubject: Laymen view   Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:16 pm

Could not agree with you more Mark! The Current young man being punished yes I said punished, is Kenneth Monture. I know this young Man and cannot help but to feel sorry for him. His main objective was to come to a better Basketball school program, and play against better competition. All in hopes of playing basketball beyond his high school year. There was no recruiting, just a kid wanting to better himself (his choice). I wonder how many high school programs/coaches would deny him this if they were asked? Players are only going to benefit playing against him, win or lose! I for one could care a less if WG beats Mouat because of Kenny’s contribution. Just seems to me we have old school thinking…excuse the pun!
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:22 pm

ebe wrote:
]
ronh_pm wrote:
A few years back Mike Lewandowski and his entire family moved from Kelowna to Pitt Meadows in his Gr.10 year. This rule would have had him sit out the year though he and his family lived less than 10 minutes from the school.

Ron you are incorrect in this case. If someone legally moves ther residence they are eligible to play immediately at their new school.

Ok I guess I understand. If Mike had moved alone he would not have been eligible but because his parents moved he became eligible?

I guess then it comes down to what is deemed a "legal move" and Ken moving 1315km was not deemed "legal" and he is ineligible as a result whereas we have kids from all over the Lower Mainland going to any one of the couple of dozen private schools that have not moved an inch, that are deemed eligible.

If Kenny had signed up to play at St. Georges would he have been eligible? Maybe thats what he should do?

Just doesnt seem right to me
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:28 pm

I believe if he had gone to a private school in his senior year he would still have to sit out....It seems very simple to me ..The rules are in place..Monture tried to diseave by putting a coaches address as his own knowing what exactly he was doing and that it was illegal so i have no problems with it..consider it a lesson learned




ronh_pm wrote:
ebe wrote:
]
ronh_pm wrote:
A few years back Mike Lewandowski and his entire family moved from Kelowna to Pitt Meadows in his Gr.10 year. This rule would have had him sit out the year though he and his family lived less than 10 minutes from the school.

Ron you are incorrect in this case. If someone legally moves ther residence they are eligible to play immediately at their new school.

Ok I guess I understand. If Mike had moved alone he would not have been eligible but because his parents moved he became eligible?

I guess then it comes down to what is deemed a "legal move" and Ken moving 1315km was not deemed "legal" and he is ineligible as a result whereas we have kids from all over the Lower Mainland going to any one of the couple of dozen private schools that have not moved an inch, that are deemed eligible.

If Kenny had signed up to play at St. Georges would he have been eligible? Maybe thats what he should do?

Just doesnt seem right to me
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:36 pm

And 1 wrote:
I believe if he had gone to a private school in his senior year he would still have to sit out....It seems very simple to me ..The rules are in place..Monture tried to diseave by putting a coaches address as his own knowing what exactly he was doing and that it was illegal so i have no problems with it..consider it a lesson learned




ronh_pm wrote:
ebe wrote:
]
ronh_pm wrote:
A few years back Mike Lewandowski and his entire family moved from Kelowna to Pitt Meadows in his Gr.10 year. This rule would have had him sit out the year though he and his family lived less than 10 minutes from the school.

Ron you are incorrect in this case. If someone legally moves ther residence they are eligible to play immediately at their new school.

Ok I guess I understand. If Mike had moved alone he would not have been eligible but because his parents moved he became eligible?

I guess then it comes down to what is deemed a "legal move" and Ken moving 1315km was not deemed "legal" and he is ineligible as a result whereas we have kids from all over the Lower Mainland going to any one of the couple of dozen private schools that have not moved an inch, that are deemed eligible.

If Kenny had signed up to play at St. Georges would he have been eligible? Maybe thats what he should do?

Just doesnt seem right to me


I am pretty sure that And 1 knows nothing about the real situation. As an outside observer, it seems inconceivable that a young man would travel across the province to a new school and not have a legitimate place to live (whether with his legal guardians or not). Was he living in the street and providing a coach's address? Hardly.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:49 pm

Sad situation. Kenneth should have the opportunity to play his senior year. Is there any chance that the decision can be reversed?
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:59 pm

Kenneth was living with Jadon Cohee and the Cohees agreed to be his legal guardians. After that didn't work his mother moved to the Langley area. And I guess that didn't work either.

Regardless of who did what and whether or not it is the right thing to do the fact remains that a good kid is unable to play basketball in his final year of highschool. It's just a shame.



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