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 Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)

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ronh_pm



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:20 pm

Naismith wrote:
Kenneth was living with Jadon Cohee and the Cohees agreed to be his legal guardians. After that didn't work his mother moved to the Langley area. And I guess that didn't work either.

Regardless of who did what and whether or not it is the right thing to do the fact remains that a good kid is unable to play basketball in his final year of highschool. It's just a shame.




And I think that is the point of it all. Rules are rules and that is not the question. The question is the punishment for breaking the rule. I suppose this has been debated many times before and will again be debated sometime again in the future with a different kid at a different school.

All I would hope is that like many other rules in life, let there be flexability in the punishment to allow for different circumstances.

Back to basketball for me. A couple of great tourneys out in the Valley to start looking at!
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OldSchoolCoach



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:47 pm

I find this a very interesting debate with some strange statements. To say that Kenneth has to attend Walnut Grove or another basketball power to get recruited is crazy. Ken is an active member of the Center for Performance and would be known to any knowledgeable university coaches in Canada. Was he not on Drives Elite team that travelled the US last summer barn storming for every NCAA team in America? Give these coaches some credit, they know who Kenneth Monture is. Drive does a great job of exposing their players to coaches throughout North America.
To open up the transfer rule would not be good for basketball. Look at Manroop Clair. He has played for 3 schools for far this year and we still have close to 2 months to go. There has been no parental move or guardianship transfer. He simply packs his bag and moves on to a better situation each time. Some are suggesting we want to bring this prep school zoo to Canada, NO THANKS. Was Tristan Thompson not suspended by his high school in Jersey numerous times them dismissed from his team? His penalty for acting like a fool was being eligible to play right away for Findlay Prep. The inmates are running the asylum. Coaches already want to create a league in BC that would ban transfer kids.
I am not a fan of BC school sports, but they have lots of boys in mind when they make rules, not just one boy. Rules that seem unfair to one player are designed to make it fair for everyone. The relocating of players was a hot topic at last years AGM and will continue to be one. I would agree that we need to have quality coaching at all schools in this province. We have a government that could make sports a priority with the stroke of a pen. Paid quality coaching would make it more fair for all.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:36 am

and1 has no idea what they are talking about. They never lied about the address. Kenneth was living with the Cohees and they told the truth. They were not trying to sneak past anything. The Cohees were made legal guardians. He moved to be able to flourish in school and in basketball. His parents could not afford to make the move, so the Cohees were given guardianship, but with the new rules this year guardianship had to be in place for 1 year. So he was deemed ineligable and they tried absolutely everything. His mother quit her job and moved down so her son could play his last year of highscool bball, she didnt know what she was gonna do for work, she just couldnt take it anymore, and apparently that wasnt enough. Walnut Grove has never been known for recruiting and I can personally say the Mr.Bergen did not recruit Kenneth Monture. He made a rational choice that best suited his academic and athletic pursuits. They really need to take certain circumstances into affect, and not treat every case like it is the same recruiting bullshit.
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bballerforlife9



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:21 am

I've enjoyed this forum for years and had to join just to speak up for a good kid that is being unfairly judged and criticized publicly, by some who have no idea what they're talking about. I don't understand why posts are made by those who have incorrect facts and make assumptions that can sometimes bring harm, hurt and insult to players, coaches and other posters. There is always more than one side to every story and sometimes the entire story isn't shared, it’s called privacy.

Rules are made for a reason. However, there are exceptions to every rule. In this case, there was no recruiting, there was no lying or cheating or trying to hide addresses. No rules were broken. Everything that transpired with Kenneth's move was upfront and discussed with BCSS before he moved. CP asked the Cohees to house Kenneth in 2010 to alleviate travel costs that his parents couldn't afford. Kenneth then lived with them the following summer when he played Drive. Kenneth made the decision to move to the LMD, for a variety of reasons, that are tragic, personal, confidential and his business. Contrary to the rumours and conjecture, it was not all about basketball. Would playing basketball for Walnut Grove benefit Kenneth and the school? Of course it would. Is it the main reason he moved. No, it was not. He moved knowing there was a strong chance he wouldn't be able to play. He moved anyways and should be applauded for having the courage to do so, not slandered and called a cheater. Does he wish he was playing? Of course he does. Should his case be considered based on his circumstances? It most certainly should. As the saying goes, we shouldn't criticize until we've walked a mile in someone's shoes...

The travesty here is that past rule breakers have made the present rules too rigid and inflexible for those who should be considered based on their individual cases. The only loser here is Kenneth if he is not allowed to play. There is something seriously flawed with the system if cases warranting allowances are not considered because they don’t fit precisely into the rules. As a sports community, we have to collectively do right by all, not every case fits tidily into a box and sometimes that means recognizing this and amending the parameters and allowing a kid to play when their circumstances are valid, albeit not written verbatim in black and white.
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Pooch



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PostSubject: agree totally   Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:13 am

Well said...I completely agree.
The only point I would make is that I think the recruiting word is way overused and most past cases were just choices made with basketball in mind. Nothing wrong with that, but people sure love conspiracy theories.
This case seems totally honest to me and I feel sorry for the kid.
Thanks for presenting the facts.
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:33 pm

bballerforlife9 wrote:
I've enjoyed this forum for years and had to join just to speak up for a good kid that is being unfairly judged and criticized publicly, by some who have no idea what they're talking about. I don't understand why posts are made by those who have incorrect facts and make assumptions that can sometimes bring harm, hurt and insult to players, coaches and other posters. There is always more than one side to every story and sometimes the entire story isn't shared, it’s called privacy.

Rules are made for a reason. However, there are exceptions to every rule. In this case, there was no recruiting, there was no lying or cheating or trying to hide addresses. No rules were broken. Everything that transpired with Kenneth's move was upfront and discussed with BCSS before he moved. CP asked the Cohees to house Kenneth in 2010 to alleviate travel costs that his parents couldn't afford. Kenneth then lived with them the following summer when he played Drive. Kenneth made the decision to move to the LMD, for a variety of reasons, that are tragic, personal, confidential and his business. Contrary to the rumours and conjecture, it was not all about basketball. Would playing basketball for Walnut Grove benefit Kenneth and the school? Of course it would. Is it the main reason he moved. No, it was not. He moved knowing there was a strong chance he wouldn't be able to play. He moved anyways and should be applauded for having the courage to do so, not slandered and called a cheater. Does he wish he was playing? Of course he does. Should his case be considered based on his circumstances? It most certainly should. As the saying goes, we shouldn't criticize until we've walked a mile in someone's shoes...

The travesty here is that past rule breakers have made the present rules too rigid and inflexible for those who should be considered based on their individual cases. The only loser here is Kenneth if he is not allowed to play. There is something seriously flawed with the system if cases warranting allowances are not considered because they don’t fit precisely into the rules. As a sports community, we have to collectively do right by all, not every case fits tidily into a box and sometimes that means recognizing this and amending the parameters and allowing a kid to play when their circumstances are valid, albeit not written verbatim in black and white.

Thanks for representing the facts so well bballerforlife9. Well said. The question is, will anything be done to fix the situation or will the various organizations (and people) still hide behind the rules?

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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:56 pm

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Coach Mike



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:28 am

Very emotional and deep topic especially when it concerns my family and I. First and foremost, Kenny, we know what a great kid you are and you are like family to us. I want to thank all those who have provided supportive comments for a very sensitive issue. I have so much admiration for Kenny, although he is unable to play a game he so dearly loves, he has already won in the game of life with his personal growth and development. He is truly a great kid and very courageous. I know next year he'll be playing at the next level and realizing that the journey he has taken for the past few years was so valuable to his growth off and on the court. And for us, the passion for the game and the opportunity to be a part of, mentor and assist young men/women in their pursuit of academic, athletic and personal excellence, shall never diminish. When you've grown up with little but along the way had people help and care for you and motivate you to work hard and be somebody then you learn to give back.

Of note, we do not ever possess the right to infringe on an athlete's choice to better him/herself and enhance his academic and athletic opportunities. From a young age we are taught to follow our dreams, why then do we then take away the dreams and hopes for some athletes in their pursuit of excellence, opportunities and aspirations. Shame on us! These are young men and woman we are speaking of whose lives are awaiting them.










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Sim



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:42 am

Well said coach.
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Pooch



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:24 am

How can anyone be philosophically against kids having the right to pursue what they and their parents have determined is best for them?
Thanks coach for showing us the personal side of this issue.
It should ALWAYS be about the kids...stop the conspiracy theories, stop telling us that the protection of programs doing a mediocre or worse job, is more important than the kids' right to pursue their dreams.
Take care of the kids as our priority and any program making an effort will do just fine...and adults in charge should sleep much better knowing who their priority is. Sadly, I have been around this game too long to believe that positive change is much more than a dream. Those who do an average or less than average job get to vote too, and their own personal interests seem to outweigh those of the kid whose dreams they crush.
Thanks again for such a well-written piece. Let's hope people are listening. This is the kind of story that just might be a catalyst for change. Fingers crossed.
Best of luck to Kenny...sounds like a great kid, and it is a tragedy he isn't playing the game he loves.
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ronh_pm



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:08 pm

thanks Coach....Moderator...this would probably be as good as time as any to luck this thread?
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karnsharda12



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:38 pm

Im with ron please remove this topic those who have no idea about kenneth situation should not be allowed to comment he is just a kid i know him very well and have a soft spot for the big man he deserves to play but wont get the chance but you wont hear him complaining so please drop it
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PostSubject: What is it REALLY about?   Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:18 pm

I agree with Trey. Children transfer for academic reasons and it is buyer beware. If there is not a program available in Terrace that allows him to compete at the level he is capable of playing at then let him transfer and play. I do not know this boy at all nor does my son play for Walnut Grove but I do not think the interest of the child is being looked at here. Nothing wrong with a little healthy competition. Maybe the people making the decision for him not to play are coaches from other teams or have a vested interest in him not playing as it would enhance The Walnut Grove team that they compete against. Just a thought.



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OldSchoolCoach



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:23 pm

The people that make decisions on student eligibility are not basketball coaches. BCSS is made up of sport commissions from badminton to down hill skiing and everything in between, school administrators and athletic directors. All sports are under the same eligibility standards. The make up of the eligibility committee can change from year to year as this is another volunteer position. The process as I can tell is, if you have an ineligible player, you send in an appeal stating why you think this player should be allowed to play. The information is looked at on an individual basis and an outcome is determined. If the student is declared ineligible , you can appeal the ruling based on new information that was not available in your original appeal. Things like a parent has made a permanent residential move, not a temporary one. Why some are declared eligible and some are not, is not made public. I like many of you, see no logic in some of their decisions. The rules on student movement are getting tighter. If you do not agree with the way things are going, join the process. Lobby your principal and athletic director. I have never been to a BCSS AGM as I am opposed to their participatory not excellence approach to sports. I do have to play by their rules as I want to play in their basketball championships. As to the question why do band and drama transfer students not have to sit out a year as do sport transfers, the answer I am given is that the programs they participate in are taught by teachers and part of the school curriculum. The Liberal government does not recognize sports in the same light as band and drama. The previous Education Minister, when as about the value of sports said, "If students want exercise, they should go for a walk in the park" With that kind of leadership, you can see why high school sports continues to struggle.
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PostSubject: Shame on "YOU"!!!   Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:35 am

[quote="And 1"]The rules have been in place for years and Monture family knew this and the chances they were taking when making this decission. The fact that they they used another boy on the teams address as his own shows that Monture and Walnut Grove were trying to work around the rules to hide the fact ..shame on both !!!


You are talking about a 17yr old boy who just wants to play basketball and succeed in life! So what if his family moved to try to help him out! They are just trying to give him every opportunity that they can. And you say "Shame on both"??? Are you kidding me? I think that what this sports "rules" is doing to these poor kids is absolutely ridiculous! You people should be outragged at how this sport is tearing the heart out of these pooor kids!!!
One would think that the Province of BC would be behind their allstar athletes. How proud we would be if they were to make it pro.
So so sad for this boy that he has to go through all this. And so sad for you that you can not stand to see someone else succeed.
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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:01 am

the whole rule has its benefits n disadvantages, instead of looking at just one kid you should look at a whole bunch of teams, teams in groves league teams fighting to make BCs, teams that have had the same group of kids since grade 8 they feel at a disadvantage when another school that they can beat or can compete with bring in a new kid and blow them out, im not saying this is recruiting or that grove brought in monture but thats the reason this rule has been put in place and i think its great and if your gonna do what he did, u should know the rules and maybe transfer a year prior, and it does suck for him noone wants to sit out their senior year but it is what it is
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SurreyBall



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PostSubject: Re: Walnut grove post player (Kenneth Monture)   Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:37 pm

Sorry to say but recruiting is recruiting. Its difficult for coaches to develop players from grade 8 and when grade 10 comes around all the work is gone. Look at Tammy they brought in Nav Bains last year and no issue was made and because of him coming over now tamanawis has a stud grade 10 forward in Sukhjot Bains. Athelite has been a pipeline to get kids to tamy and its not fair to teams like ec,pm,fleetwood etc. That is good that he doesnt get to play his senior year maybe kids will think twice before jumping on teams that have a shot at the BC's, this isnt the NBA we don't need superteams.
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Uniformed opinions can hurt   Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:40 pm

Pooch wrote:
I think the main reason the rule was put in place was to keep players from moving for reasons related to their sport.
If Monture moved mainly to have a better opportunity within his sport, then he is a bad guy as far as most coaches seem to be concerned and I don't think having a look at his case specifically would help his case.
He should, according to the majority of coaches, have stayed at his old school no matter what that would have meant to his future.
It has NEVER been about a kid who wants to excel and is trapped in a program which does not offer what he needs. It is about protecting programs and coaches no matter their level of expertise or effort.


Pooch - you have no idea of what you're talking about.

Transfer rules protect the players as well. There are a lot of unscrupulous 'recruiters' out there.

They will recruit a player, make promises, cost the players lots of money and maybe their eligibility – then dump them aside like trash whenever they feel like it. You just have to look at the Clair situation in SoCal – recruited by an elite program… along with 19 others… then they pick the 12 they want… then dump the rest. If it screws the kid over – oh well. Not their problem. Manroop was lucky he was able to get into another situation when he did.

If it was open season for recruiting, you’d find a lot of good programs would collapase as a coach is not going to spend thousands of hours developing a program only to see it raided for the players they have created. Then you’d have a whole bunch of kids SOL because of a few. You’d also have a huge amount of undo pressure being put on kids and families.

And to Ron_pm – In this day and age, players don’t get missed. If a player is good enough – they get noticed. Coaches talk, A LOT. So when a kid is good enough, his name is out there. I regularly field calls and/or emails from Canadian and US college/university programs and am asked about players. They often want to know about the kid himself. They want to know if he’s a good kid off the court and what I know about him on the court. I, in turn, reach out to people I know and start asking questions. I’ll contact his coach and maybe former coach and pick their brain.

College/University coaches get sent a lot of ‘tape’ on kids – note to the players that read this, DO NOT send in a highlight tape of yourself that has been cut and edited. There is no quicker way to find the bottom of the garbage can. Post-secondary coaches want to see ‘game tape’. They don’t want to see close-ups of a player either. The want to see full game action so they can see everything that is going on to see what a players does with and without the ball, how instictive they are. How they move on the court.

I can tell you one thing that has been conveyed to me – post-secondary coaches REALLY are not fans of kids that move around a lot from program to program. They see it as a lack of loyality to those putting in the thousands of hours teaching and developing you and they are leary to invest the time and money only to maybe see you bolt in a year (or less) because you think there is a better deal out there.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria
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