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 top 20 players in alberta?

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deathstar11



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PostSubject: top 20 players in alberta?   Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:20 pm

Who are top 20 players in Alberta gr 10 and up?
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Bballdad



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:08 pm

Don't ask North Pole Hoops, or trust his input. He's so far removed from reality..........
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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:08 pm

North Pole Hoops can only assess and rank players that they see. If players attend the sessions they will be evaluated and ranked. If being ranked nationally is important to any high school player with aspirations of playing at the next level, this is the route to take. There are certainly players who aren't ranked who could be, but they have to show up. http://northpolehoops.com/Full_Court_Press_Northern_Exposure_Camp_NPH_Player_Evaluations

For the best players who want even more exposure, its also important to get outside of Alberta and outside of Canada. Playing AAU from late June to early August is a great option and there are plenty of opportunities for many of Alberta's high calibre athletes to compete against the best players in the US and be seen. You don't get that by staying in Alberta or even playing one week at a national tournament.
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bball mom



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:25 am

CYDC do you really not believe there is no benefit in representing your province at a national tournament, and that the only reason to play is to be "seen"?

Out of every 10 kids who are playing you will be lucky to get 1 maybe 2 playing post secondary in the states. The majority of the kids playing in Alberta, who are lucky enough to continue on past high school will end up playing at a Canadian college or university.

I do agree you get some great basketball at the AAU, and that it is a good experience for the kids to play in tournaments down there, but I also believe kids get an amazing experience playing in a national tournament representing their province, and I think club programs should encourage and facilitate the opportunity for their players to do both.

Wouldn't it be nice to send our Alberta teams to the National tournament knowing the best players in the province were on that team, not in the states at a tournament hoping to be seen.
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Bballdad



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:52 am

CYDC hates the provincial team. He made players quit CYDC if they chose to play for Alberta.

So, in essence, he prevents the provincial team from having success because talented boys in the south are pressured into staying, or leaving.
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localhoopfan



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:07 pm

Kids that want to be ranked on those lists will find their way to those events and find their names on the board. Those that don’t shouldn’t worry about it too much as they aren’t looking at a large enough group to be able to do this well. Not knocking it, just saying that the process is far from thorough! Unfortunately, the rankers don’t seem to get to the local high school games and tournaments where it would be much easier to see who can play and who can’t.

I’ve always been curious about CYDC’s American focus when the majority of higher quality players locally will go on to very successful basketball careers at a Canadian university or college (a select few have gone to the US, a tremendous accomplishment for those kids). The goal here, I expect, is to get as many of the kids as possible to play college basketball somewhere (because that means they’re getting a university education and having some of their schooling paid for!). This should be the goal because, as my favourite NCAA commercial says, “most of our student athletes go pro in something other than sports”.

Many of the clubs locally include some AAU tournaments in their spring season and then feed the Alberta provincial team program that culminates in a one week national tournament that has a high number coaches attending from colleges and universities across Canada and yes, even some from the northern US schools. For the majority of kids playing basketball in Alberta, that seems to me to be the best opportunity to be “seen”. If they are good enough to play in the US (and I love to cheer for any Canadians that make it to the NCAA – go Zags!), they will get noticed and from what I understand there are many opportunities to do so between April and the end of June. In my opinion, we should be trying to expose the players to as many post-secondary opportunities as possible – on both sides of the border.

As for the top 20 players in the province, you could look at the U15 and U17 boys and girls provincial teams for starters. There are obviously a few players that didn’t partake in the program and would otherwise have been on those lists - maybe you’ll find them on the North Pole hoops list.
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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:43 pm

localhoopfan - I agree.

I am certainly not saying playing for a provincial team is wrong or a waste of time. Its good basketball at a high level. The best high school players in Alberta will probably move on to ACAC and there is nothing wrong with that. If the discussion is about being ranked and being seen, there are other opportunities out there that most Alberta players don't explore. Without question, the highest level of age group specific basketball, the best opportunities that will allow a talented Alberta player to be recruited and play with a FULL scholarship at a post secondary school, and the best way to develop to your full potential as a ball player is to play AAU. Playing in the occasional AAU tournament is fine but if you are capable, a full season of AAU will open doors. If thats the goal, thats the route to take. And it will probably cost less than playing for a provincial team. Of course its not for everyone but Alberta has some great talent that has to be seen in order to even get the opportunity to take the next step.
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deathstar11



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PostSubject: agree with CYDC   Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:04 pm

i'm starting to see CYDC's logic. At $1400+ to play prov team for 1 week as opposed to getting more games/play time in either AAU or even 2 or 3 camps. Also, there is a heck of a lot of good players who never even tried out for the prov teams. I always thought that prov teams were made up of "best players in the province." Just my 2 cents.
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localhoopfan



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:48 pm

Just to be clear re Deathstar's comment, the $1400 you pay for the Alberta team includes 5 weeks of basketball, several days a week (4-5) leading up to the National tournament starting July 1 and ending early August. Each of the boys and girls teams also enter 2-3 tournaments in July and its up to that team/coach where they go. The $1400 also includes airfare to and from the Nationals (this year Quebec for the boys, New Brunswick for the girls) as well as 7 nights of accommodation and 3 meals a day - that would make up more than half of that fee easily. Alberta teams run at significant deficits each summer, which is funded by Basketball Alberta through membership fees and sponsorship to make sure our province is represented at the National level. For club teams, I'm quite certain that travel costs are extra (or you have do do some significant fundraising to pay for it) so its not a true comparison. While $1400 seems like a lot, its actually the best value around as the clubs are not subsidizing your experience to the level that BA does. Plus you get to play for your province at a National Championship!
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HenryW



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:25 pm

Are you sure about the true costs of playing on the Alberta team? Unless this changed this year you are not correct. The last I heard the 1400 covered the practice facilities and transportation to nationals. Pretty sure it does not cover extra tournaments, return transportation from nationals and sometimes food while at the practice facilities (have heard people have had to pay extra on some occasions).

Don't get me wrong I think there is room for both a club system and provincial basketball and for the experience you get playing for your province it is worth the money. Any club team that will not allow there players to play for the provincial team definitely has there priorities a little askew. Unfortunately club basketball in some instances has become a money making venture instead of doing what is best for the kids.
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localhoopfan



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:55 pm

Apologies to those coming to this topic looking for player names but we've digressed!

I'm up to speed on the current program and the $1400 BA charges covers transportation to AND from the National tournament, accommodations and 3 meals a day (during the National tournament only - feeding hungry teenagers throughout a summer of practice sessions is not included and I don't think anyone would expect it!); practice gyms for the summer, coaches (and their expenses to get to and from Nationals as well), player gear and a small allowance for extra tournament fees. If you travel before the nationals, that would be extra but most teams gather up some corporate sponsorship and the amount raised would dictate where the teams get to. The BA program uses the billet system so if tournaments were in Calgary and Edmonton, you don't need hotels. The billet system is also used throughout the training sessions. Hope that clarifies.
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hoopsnut



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:09 pm

The debate on who gets you more exposure (provincial team or clubs) is an interesting one. Being a parent of a player who has had both team Alberta experience and club team experience, I think I can give some intelligent information on this topic. I can confidently say that there is no better form of exposure to most CIS schools and some NCAA schools than playing Team Alberta. When our son played team AB, we counted over 18 CIS coaches who we could identify in the gym at some point at nationals. Beyond this, our son received recruiting phone calls from CIS schools and 2 NCAA schools who we were not even aware they were in the gym. This could also have been coaches who looked up team AB's website and started contacting every player who made the provincial team's from their province, but nonetheless, there is no absence of CIS recruitment opportunities playing team AB.

On the club side, we found much LESS recruitment and exposure opportunities. Our experience was that unless the team is playing at one of the top tournaments, in the top division, and unless they make it to at least the semi-finals of that tournament, there were no big name NCAA schools watching. Our son was recruited by 3 small schools during his club tour of the US, and these teams were division 2 and 3 schools. I think many kids have misguided beliefs that playing AAU in the summer means that every major division 1 NCAA school will be knocking down their door. It is important to remember that there are thousands of NCAA sanctioned tournaments being run in the US at the same time, and all of them have multiple divisions in them. So like I said, it has to be a major tournament, in the top division and the team has to make it to semifinals for any schools of significance to even watch your son play. Also, in terms of cost, it has been very close to equal. Our son's provincial team also went to the US to play at an NCAA sanctioned tournament. The provincial team ended up costing 250 dollars more.

Beyond this, we have found that the best CIS schools easily beat up on the average NCAA division 1 schools every summer. So the division 2 and 3 teams, or even the mid-majors in division 1 (like a Montana State) are second fiddle to our CIS teams. In other words, unless your son is good enough to play at a top 25 team in NCAA division 1 (which, let's be honest, is one child out of every 10 years), I would recommend him to stay in Canada, play on a great CIS team, and get a degree that is worth something. My advice: play team Alberta, get recruited by CIS schools, and choose a good CIS school to play at.

To further accentuate my point, there are two young men who have chased the NCAA division 1 dream. After spending 6-7 years in the USA, playing AAU summer ball, prep school, etc., Thijien Moses and Adrian Curtis (arguably 2 of the top 5 players to graduate from AB high school in the past 10 years) are back in Canada. One is playing ACAC at Lakeland, and the other will be playing at the University of Calgary next year. Moses and Curtis were better players in high school than anyone in high school right now. The point is that, anyone can play at a small and terrible American school. But if you want to play on a quality team, get a quality education, then play team Alberta, go to a CIS school, and get your life going before you turn 27 years old return to Canada to do what you should have done at age 18. No disrespect intended to the 2 young men I have named as they are wonderful people whom I have known since they were in junior high, but I wish people would learn from others who came before them, rather than having this same discussion every year.


Last edited by hoopsnut on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HenryW



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:17 pm

localhoopfan wrote:
Apologies to those coming to this topic looking for player names but we've digressed!

I'm up to speed on the current program and the $1400 BA charges covers transportation to AND from the National tournament, accommodations and 3 meals a day (during the National tournament only - feeding hungry teenagers throughout a summer of practice sessions is not included and I don't think anyone would expect it!)

This must have changed last year as I know the 3 years previous players were responsible for the own return transportation. If it has changed that is a plus for the program. Also there were additional charges for tournaments. Hopefully there are no longer any "extra" charges. This would make the program more appealing to a lot of players.
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TLU



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PostSubject: Provide the Evidence   Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:47 pm

A few comments:
1. How much does CYDC charge? What does each level of CYDC charge? Do all levels of CYDC get the same trips, or are the younger groups subsidizing the older group? How many of CYDC groups went to Vegas?
2. Most important - how many CYDC players have gotten NCAA scholarships?
3. How many CYDC players have been told of all the great connections they have, yet - who has ever gone anywhere from CYDC?
4. How many players have gone from the Alberta program to play in the CIS?
5. Remove the emotion and the opinion and look at the facts - compare the costs of CYDC and Team Alberta? Compare the results.
However, I will say that to fill kids heads with promises that are really self - serving and making money in the process is the problematic issue that needs to be addresed with the club program. Some programs like the Grads program do it right. Each kid pays around $350 not the ridiculous fees paid by CYDC and NSD in Calgary.
This topic was supposed to be who are the top players in Alberta at this level. Most of those played for Team Alberta. As for this North Pole Hoops and this evaluation camp - again it is someone trying to create a business in an area that is about volunteer work and others using such a site to try and promote their club. Ask any CIS coach how much stock they put in such evaluation camps? Finally, the chances of an Albertan kid making it in the top tiers of the NCAA are slim and remote. One every 10 years. Again look at the numbers, don't count the lower levels - as the post above has so rightly pointed out. We will see how many of the CYDC players get scholarships to NCAA schools this year, even with their North Pole Hoops evaluation connection. The proof is in the pudding.

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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:04 pm

Check out the web site and look at the newsletters. Many of your questions are answered on there now or will be shortly as the 2012 spring league season approaches: http://www.cydcbasketball.com/

This is not about any specific club program. Every player in alberta who wants to get better will play spring league somewhere from April to June. Clubs offer different leagues, different trips and different experiences. If you want to be involved with a certain club, thats your choice. I know of clubs that charged thousands more than CYDC elite teams. I know of clubs who charged less. Choose whatever club you want based on whatever criteria works for you.

Anyone who wants to put together a top 20 list of players in Alberta will leave out players because no one sees them all and they probably have their own favorites. NPH isn't any more or any less biased than any other person who will post on this forum. Nobody sees everybody and most of the lists I've seen on this forum are more than little incomplete, including NPH.

Players who have the ability and who want to get noticed will take whatever path they feel is best. If they are good enough to play on the provincial team, if they aren't on the outside of the politics of the coaches, the ID camps and the CP program that feeds the teams with money, if they are okay with what those potential opportunities to be seen are, provided they are able to showcase their talent within those limited parameters, then take that course.

AAU is open to everyone. There are many teams players can play for and showcase their talents on. Its relatively inexpensive, you play a lot of ball and just like spring league in Alberta, capable players will be seen. If you are good enough and if the objective is to get your name out there, to show people what you can do, to get noticed by coaches who provide full scholarships at the highest level, AAU is the best option.
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TLU



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PostSubject: Avoiding the Question   Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:11 pm

Those were simple questions CYDC. Just answer them. How much does CYDC cost? Did all players pay the same amount and get the same service? What are you hiding? You totally avoided the questions and instead gave some dissertation on a comletely different topic. Basketball Alberta is a company whom anyone can review their financials. Is CYDC willing to do the same? I doubt it.
When you use this forum to promote your club then you need to answer the questions otherwise keep to the original question and quit self promoting and recruiting. I don't see any other club doing that on this forum
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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:42 pm

Its either on the web site or will be. I'm merely a part of the CYDC family. I don't run it and I can't get the information before its published any easier than you can. I'll try to change my avatar name so I don't appear so self serving. That way I'll be more anonymous, like everyone else.
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TLU



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PostSubject: Waffling   Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:50 pm

So your part of the CYDC family? Yet you don't know what the fees were last year? If your going to promote your club on this forum then you better be prepared to answer people's questions. You were the one who hijacked this thread with your promotion. The question was thoughts on the top players in Alberta. Instead of answering that you promoted some evaluation camp - which most of the best high school players in Alberta did not go to - by the way. Interesting how many of the CYDC players are also the ones with their bios on that link provided. How is that not self serving? Promote your club all you want but if you do it on this forum in a thread which has nothing to do with such matters I have no choice but to call you on it.
As to your other comment - if you want to change your name you are free to do so but we will still see when you are self promoting your own club which benefits you or your CYDC family - in your words.
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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:18 pm

NPH is not CYDC. The Full Court Press Northern Exposure Camp was open to everyone as you can tell from the list of players on that link.

As for the other stuff - fair enough.
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12321



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:01 am

I'm guessing that if somebody makes a list of top 20 players in the province that it would be full of either CYDC players or provincial team players. Southern alberta players are almost always left out simply because the provincial team programs are set up to exclude southern alberta from participating by simple geography. How many provincial team evaluation camps are held in Lethbridge? How many CP programs are held here? How many times have top players from southern alberta teams been passed over for provincial team first cuts simply because the coaches didn't know their names or that they didn't travel and pay the ridiculous CP fees during the school year? Yet many of the top teams are from here. Provincial teams are notorious for excluding players outside of Calgary or Edmonton.

Top player lists on this forum are a joke and mean absolutely nothing.
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Dr Dunk



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PostSubject: top 20 players in Alberta   Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:35 pm

Good players in Alberta and Canada will be known by Canadian university coaches regardless who they play with in the spring. If you are a good player with talent you will get the opportunity to play at the next level. It is very funny to see how many people attack the CYDC program and I will give you some reasons why. Let's look at why they have some of the best athletes in Alberta. Maybe it's the amount of gym time they offer the players, maybe it's the strong coaches they have on staff. Maybe it's because they are well organized which helps the kids get a chance to play the very best in the US and Canada. Have you ever played against there elite teams or seen them play? Their kids work very hard and they are fun to watch they all play the same style young or old. They travel to the states because they are able to compete there; why not provide this opportunity for their players. CYDC also plays in Western Canada and does very well against the competition. Most programs in Alberta are far behind CYDC and the haters must accept this. Player development is the reason why CYDC is so sucessful. Their players can be in the gym 7 days a week year round if they want to; it part of there package. Name me one program that offer this amount of gym time for their kids! There is none. For years CYDC has numerous players playing in Canadian universities and colleges all over the country; so their focus is not just the states. The CYDC coaches are always in contact with Canadian coaches why, they want their players that's why! Let's be real here just look at the quality of players they have in the program; this speaks for itself.They also have players at the Div 1 level in the states. This trend will continue for years to come because they set their standards high. Basketball Alberta wants the CYDC players because of the level they play at. There are a lot of great programs out there that is trying to raise the level of the sport and give these players a chance to play college ball. I give CYDC mad props because their athletes work very hard to be the best they can be on and off the court. Stop hating on the kids because they are trying to do something positive with their live. Let's applaud these kids for working hard in the gym and working just as hard in the classroom. When you are one of the best you will always have haters and CYDC certainly has it's share out there!!!! The real reason for this post was to name the top 20 players in Alberta. How about this for you and these are only CYDC players on this list. Please feel free to add yours.
Dallas Karch
David Kapinga
Matt Johnson
Tony Wolters
LJ Hegwood
DJ Morrison
Emmanuel Joshua
Mark Fernades
Ryan Sandhu
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Dr Dunk



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:41 pm

I forgot to add Deiter Posein to the top 20 list.
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localhoopfan



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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:53 pm

I agree - lets move on! There seems to be a good mix of southern, calgary, edmonton, boys/girls represented on this site and posters will have the most educated opinions and information about the players they see in their area. To help everyone out, maybe add a little info to your list like North/Edm/Calg/South, Boys/Girls, Grade 10, then 11, then 12 and maybe what school they play for so those outside their area might get a chance to see someone at a tournament and we can follow these terrific young athletes as they make their way through this and future high school seasons.
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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:33 pm

I'm not ready to move on. This subject is very much a large part of Calgary basketball so let's talk about it. I've had three kids go through basketball Calgary which included years of club basketball. The high school game itself is great as it's still pure and money is not a factor for adults coaching kids.
However, the club systems are made of men who have found a way to make a living at coaching basketball. As long as it's an honest living I won't criticize a guy for making a living cause that's what club basketball has turned into. We get on the c-train to go downtown and these guys start when the kids get out of school at the local gym. They recruit kids to their program as each kid represents a better bottom line.
From the initial start up fee, to travel expenses, food, the team shirts and shoes and pants, extra tournament fees, private basketball tutelage, to basketball camps held by Joe Blow who's directly connected to the NCAA. It is unreal the amount of cash a parent has to pay so their kid can pay club ball. And yes those who pay the most play the most. I know because my youngest kid wasn't much compared to the other girls but she never left the floor.
The biggest hook these guys have is "their connections to div 1 schools". They hold it over these kids heads from grade 9 to the time the kids graduate and realize their basketball careers have come to a tragic end. Their seems to be 5 or so guys in the city, and everyone on here knows who they are, who have these "connections" to the div 1 world. As the proof lies with the results these guys do not have one connection. If you want your kid recruited you have to do it yourself. You have to chop up their highlights and send the videos to schools you want your kid to go to. These "connected" guys simply will not do it because they get nothing from it. Other than wasting their time, time they can't charge you for, thy won't call colleges or use their "connections" to even get you a try out. MRU and U of C will find you at high school games if your kids are any good.
One div 1 NCAA name is all I'd like to here from these club coaches. Just give us one name who went onto div 1 as a result of your connections.
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PostSubject: Re: top 20 players in alberta?   Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:21 pm

cow-town - How is CYDC or any club like them different than Basketball Alberta? The only difference I can tell is that they don't pretend to represent the province and they don't use tax payer's money to pay their salaries.
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