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 City Playoff Seedings/Favorites

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FVBasketballFan



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Location : Fraser Valley

PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:09 pm

mikeyb wrote:
Does anyone else feel that Tamanawis and especially Fox, are getting ripped off by getting a 9th or lower seed ? Gleneagle and Fox are clearly the 2 best teams in the valley and the way it will be set up, Gleneagle will be 1, Fox at 9. So the 2 best teams will face each other in a do or die game. That is pretty shitty! Fox should be the #2 seed.

Well, I don't believe that's how the process works, at least it doesn't indicate that the top 7 seeds are for the league winners, though I'd imagine it would have to be given consideration.

While your argument that Fox is clearly the 2nd best team is debatable, I agree with your point that they are certainly not the #8 or #9 team. This happens every year at all levels however but you can usually count on a number of upsets each year as well, which always makes the Valleys entertaining and exciting. Ultimately everyone has to win out to take the title, some teams will get very favourable draws and others will tougher ones,

I'd imagine that Fox will get a fairly high seed (top 5 perhaps?) but have to think the fact that they didn't win their City tourney would knock them down a bit, though that's just a guess
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JrCoachS



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:21 pm

Fox has already beat WG, Pitt and Mouat and in those teams home gyms.

I don't care where Fox is seeded but they should be seeded on the other side of the bracket from Gleneagle.
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stocktonsshorts



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:22 pm

"but using a ranking system and not using the district winners at the top of the ranking would become far to subjective and controversial to work effectively". - fvbasketballfan

The senior boys and girls have gone away from district winners automatically getting the top seeds due to strength of leagues. If a team has the results to show greater strength isn't it more controversial not to give them a higher seed? I agree that winning your district is important but some districts have 24 teams and some have 5 so that should not be the only factor.

FYI- last year in senior boys after the first round of play the top 16 seeds remained so there can be some objectivity to it.
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JrCoachS



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:24 pm

[quote="stocktonsshorts"][quote="mikeyb"]Does anyone else feel that Tamanawis and especially Fox, are getting ripped off by getting a 9th or lower seed ? Gleneagle and Fox are clearly the 2 best teams in the valley and the way it will be set up, Gleneagle will be 1, Fox at 9. So the 2 best teams will face each other in a do or die game. That is pretty shitty! Fox should be the #2 seed.[/quote]

Mikeyb,

not sure how they will seed this year. In years past the league winners were given the top 8 seeds because there were 24 teams and thus the top 8 teams would get a first round bye (surrey was considered a double league due to size and had 2 in the top 8 ). Now that they are going to 32 teams, they may adopt the same seeding procedure as the seniors where everyone is ranked 1-32 and the only rule is that you cannot be ranked higher than someone above you in your league. If this was the case Fox could be seeded #2 (if gleneagle was #1) if the coaches feel that they are the 2nd best team.

Also if they did stay with the old format and Fox was #9,they would play #24 in round 1 and then most likely #8 in round 2. If they are as good as you claim they would have no problem with the #8 seed (the weakest of the league winners) and then would face Gleneagle in the final 8 which is the Championship tournament and double knockout at that stage. Hope this info helps.
[/quote]

Going by the Fraser Valley website draw layout. It's not a double knockout in the final 8.

[url=http://fvbball.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=363&Itemid=184]http://fvbball.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=363&Itemid=184[/url]
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stocktonsshorts



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:37 pm

JrCoachS wrote:
stocktonsshorts wrote:
mikeyb wrote:
Does anyone else feel that Tamanawis and especially Fox, are getting ripped off by getting a 9th or lower seed ? Gleneagle and Fox are clearly the 2 best teams in the valley and the way it will be set up, Gleneagle will be 1, Fox at 9. So the 2 best teams will face each other in a do or die game. That is pretty shitty! Fox should be the #2 seed.

Mikeyb,

not sure how they will seed this year. In years past the league winners were given the top 8 seeds because there were 24 teams and thus the top 8 teams would get a first round bye (surrey was considered a double league due to size and had 2 in the top 8 ). Now that they are going to 32 teams, they may adopt the same seeding procedure as the seniors where everyone is ranked 1-32 and the only rule is that you cannot be ranked higher than someone above you in your league. If this was the case Fox could be seeded #2 (if gleneagle was #1) if the coaches feel that they are the 2nd best team.

Also if they did stay with the old format and Fox was #9,they would play #24 in round 1 and then most likely #8 in round 2. If they are as good as you claim they would have no problem with the #8 seed (the weakest of the league winners) and then would face Gleneagle in the final 8 which is the Championship tournament and double knockout at that stage. Hope this info helps.

Going by the Fraser Valley website draw layout. It's not a double knockout in the final 8.

http://fvbball.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=363&Itemid=184

Thanks for the link. Either they've changed the draw this year or got the game #'s mixed up. If you look back at the archives from the last 2 years, the losers from the round of 8 got another chance and the losers from the semis had to win another game to get to the 3rd place game. See mouat in 2010. I've attached the link from lat year
http://fvbball.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=255:playoff-draw-2011-grade-8jr&catid=48:team-results&Itemid=214
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JrCoachS



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:13 pm

Okay, I see what you mean now. Looking forward to an exciting week of basketball.
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mikeyb



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:43 pm

FVBasketballFan wrote:
mikeyb wrote:
Does anyone else feel that Tamanawis and especially Fox, are getting ripped off by getting a 9th or lower seed ? Gleneagle and Fox are clearly the 2 best teams in the valley and the way it will be set up, Gleneagle will be 1, Fox at 9. So the 2 best teams will face each other in a do or die game. That is pretty shitty! Fox should be the #2 seed.

Well, I don't believe that's how the process works, at least it doesn't indicate that the top 7 seeds are for the league winners, though I'd imagine it would have to be given consideration.

While your argument that Fox is clearly the 2nd best team is debatable, I agree with your point that they are certainly not the #8 or #9 team. This happens every year at all levels however but you can usually count on a number of upsets each year as well, which always makes the Valleys entertaining and exciting. Ultimately everyone has to win out to take the title, some teams will get very favourable draws and others will tougher ones,

I'd imagine that Fox will get a fairly high seed (top 5 perhaps?) but have to think the fact that they didn't win their City tourney would knock them down a bit, though that's just a guess


I would LOVE to hear your debate for them to NOT be considered the 2nd best team in the Valley this year.
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JrCoachS



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:12 pm

My Top 5 seeds regardless of zone.

1. Gleneagle
2. Panarama Ridge
3. Terry Fox
4. Walnut Grove
5. Tamanawis
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All-Star



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:04 am

JrCoachS wrote:
My Top 5 seeds regardless of zone.

1. Gleneagle
2. Panarama Ridge
3. Terry Fox
4. Walnut Grove
5. Tamanawis

Walnut Grove has played tamaniwas early this season and lost by 9 or 10 points
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FVBasketballFan



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:17 am

I would LOVE to hear your debate for them to NOT be considered the 2nd best team in the Valley this year. [/quote]

Well I didn't say they shouldn't be considered the second best team, but didn't think they were 'clearly' the #2 team, which is what you said, that's all. They haven't played some of the other top seeds, and I believe they lost to Pitt? The Surrey playoffs had 12 strong teams in it, so for Panorama to come out of the Surrey's I'd think the argument could be made that they are deserving of the #2 seed.

Either way Fox is going to be up there based on some of the games they did win. #8 or #9 would have been an injustice, but as I mentioned I don't believe the 7 city winners get the top 7 seeds, so it's a moot point.

I bet Fox ends up as the #3 seed. Just a guess
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FVBasketballFan



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:32 am

[quote="stocktonsshorts"]"but using a ranking system and not using the district winners at the top of the ranking would become far to subjective and controversial to work effectively". - fvbasketballfan

'The senior boys and girls have gone away from district winners automatically getting the top seeds due to strength of leagues. If a team has the results to show greater strength isn't it more controversial not to give them a higher seed? I agree that winning your district is important but some districts have 24 teams and some have 5 so that should not be the only factor.'

Thanks stocktonsshorts - you must have had a quick reply to my post! I re-read what I wrote and edited it as it did not read how I meant it. Your point is much closer to what I intended. I was trying to suggest that the district winners should have some weighting, but not necessarily getting the top 7 seeds, as there are likely some strong teams that finished 2nd, 3rd, etc that likely have a stronger body of work over the season than some teams that won their districts. I imagine that both will need to be taken into account in the seeding, as opposed to one or the other.

I'm sure when the seeding comes out there will be some head scratchers - either teams too high or too low than most believe. I fact that they try to avoid teams from the district from playing each other must make things complicated too, esp for Surrey, where teams 3-6 will all be very evenly matched with one another.
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FVBasketballFan



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:43 am

All-Star wrote:
JrCoachS wrote:
My Top 5 seeds regardless of zone.

1. Gleneagle
2. Panarama Ridge
3. Terry Fox
4. Walnut Grove
5. Tamanawis

Walnut Grove has played tamaniwas early this season and lost by 9 or 10 points

That list looks about right. Even shuffling Tammy and WG would largely be semantics other than home court in the second round. I'd imagine that Pitt will be up there, as well as either MEI or Mouat. Then I'd imagine the Delta winner (Delview? Haven't heard) would be in there as well.

After that it will get interesting. Looking at the Jr. Rankings this season, Sardis was in there this season, as was Fleetwood and Tweedsmuir, who both got upset in the Surrey's from what I understand. I know there were upsets in Coquitlam semi's as well which pushed out Centennial and Port Moody, so that makes things more speculative.

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Treybomb



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:10 pm

North Island Championship @ Wellington

Day 3

1/2
Wellington over Vanier by 13
3/4
Barsby over Dover

Top 3 teams advance to the Island Championships starting Thursday in Cowichan

1. Wellington
2. Vanier
3. Barsby
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FVBasketballFan



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:57 pm

JrCoachS wrote:
My Top 5 seeds regardless of zone.

1. Gleneagle
2. Panarama Ridge
3. Terry Fox
4. Walnut Grove
5. Tamanawis


Well 4/5 is pretty good. CoachS!. Overall I didn't see anything that jumped out as a gross injustice, though truthfully there are several teams in the draw that I haven't seen play.

I thought perhaps Pitt and Mouat might have been ranked a bit higher, but as I said it would have been by only a few places. Gleneagle is clearly the #1 seed and it's theirs to lose.

Any upset predictions now that the brackets are set??
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JrCoachS



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:11 pm

I think Heritage is going to beat Pitt. That's the only upset I can see for tonights games.
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Treybomb



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:52 pm

Island Championships @ Cowichan February 23-25

Thursday games

Games 1 & 2
South2 Oak Bay vs North2 GP Vanier
South1 Claremont vs North3 John Barsby

games 3 & 4
Central1 Gulf Islands vs South3 Lambrick Park
North1 Wellington vs Central2 Cowichan

Friday Semifinals

Winner game 1 vs Winner game 2
Winner game 3 vs Winner game 4
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JrCoachS



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:57 pm

[quote="Treybomb"]Island Championships @ Cowichan February 23-25

Thursday games

Games 1 & 2
South2 Oak Bay vs North2 GP Vanier
South1 Claremont vs North3 John Barsby

games 3 & 4
Central1 Gulf Islands vs South3 Lambrick Park
North1 Wellington vs Central2 Cowichan

Friday Semifinals

Winner game 1 vs Winner game 2
Winner game 3 vs Winner game 4[/quote]

Why would they put South #1 and 2 on the same side of the draw?
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Treybomb



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:11 pm

I guess they put them on the same side because the other side has two zone #1's
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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:29 pm

Big upset in Game 1 of the V&Ds.

New Westminster (BNW#3) 57
Elphinstone (NS#1) 55

Game 2
R.C Palmer (R#2) 73
Bby Mountain (BNW#2) 88

Game 3
West Van (NS#3) 41
Burnaby South (BNW#1) 62

Game 4
MacNeill (R#1) 49
Sutherland (NS#2) 38


Game 6 Weds 6pm
New West vs Bby Mountain

Game 7 Weds 7:30pm
Burnaby South vs MacNeill
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Machoops



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:42 pm

Full credit to the Burnaby schools in day 1 of the V&D's. Didn't see the 1st game but New West was down by 15 to start but slowly chipped away.

Bby Mountain shot the ball very well against Palmer, they have a couple of grade 9 guards on that team that are very solid. Not sure if Palmer took them lightly but they looked very flat and they just couldn't get any stops

West Van gave Bby South a very good game, it was a 4 point game at half (28-24). West Van goes about 9-10 deep and rotates their guys but they had no answers for Bogajev and Obradovic. South pulled away in the middle of the 4th, it was still very much a game going into the 4th.

MacNeill led 12-0 to start the game and had control of the game from start to finish but Sutherland is a very tough and scrappy team that wouldn't go away.


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Machoops



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:01 pm

Burnaby South and New West will be representing the V&D's at the Provincials.

In the 1st game, New West didn't have too much problem with Burnaby Mountain, New West was the deeper team and was able to contain Mountain's guards.

Burnaby South was just too much for MacNeill in the 2nd game, both teams battled hard but in the end the better team won. MacNeill was down 12 to begin the 4th 42-30 but rallied to make it a 3 point game 49-46. They had a few more chances to cut into the margin but was unable to execute down the stretch. South won 52-46, and should be the favorite to win the V&D's.

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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:17 pm

Island Championships @ Cowichan

Oak Bay 40 Vanier 23
Claremont 56 John Barsby 37

Lambrick Park 66 Gulf Islands 51
Wellington 54 Cowichan 37

Day 2

Vanier vs John Barsby
Gulf Islands vs Cowichan

Semifinals

Claremont vs Oak Bay
Wellington vs Lambrick Park
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:46 am


St. George's beat Churchill 64- 50 to advance to the provincials. Drew Urquhart played his best game of the year for Saints. Gary Minhas was outstanding for Churchill as their primary option.
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PostSubject: Re: City Playoff Seedings/Favorites   Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:56 pm

Island Championship @ Cowichan

John Barsby 55 Vanier 48
Gulf Islands 60 Cowichan 27

Semifinals
Claremont 44 Oak Bay 24
Wellington 61 Lambrick Park 36

Day 3
John Barsby vs Lambrick Park
Gulf Islands vs Oak Bay

Finals
Claremont vs Wellington

Top 3 advance to Provincials March 8-10


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PostSubject: Burnaby South 1st, New West 2nd @ V&D Tournament   Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:03 pm

Machoops wrote:
Burnaby South and New West will be representing the V&D's at the Provincials.

In the 1st game, New West didn't have too much problem with Burnaby Mountain, New West was the deeper team and was able to contain Mountain's guards.

Burnaby South was just too much for MacNeill in the 2nd game, both teams battled hard but in the end the better team won. MacNeill was down 12 to begin the 4th 42-30 but rallied to make it a 3 point game 49-46. They had a few more chances to cut into the margin but was unable to execute down the stretch. South won 52-46, and should be the favorite to win the V&D's.


Burnaby South won V&D tournament for the 4th time in a row against very resilient New West squad 47-42. At half time Burnaby led by 12, in third the lead was 15 points. But New West battled hard taking advantage of a technical foul against big guy Obradovic, the best player of the game to this point. New West hit a 3 pointer at the end of third period cutting the margin to only 1 point 41-40.
But playing 4th game in 4 days, the New West didn't have anything left in the tank after that to make another upset. In the end the better team won.

The tournament organizers should be ashamed of themself for poor organization. There was no official closing ceremony or acknowledgment of the tournament winner or individual awards. No wonder why the Canadian basketball is where it is right now, at the bottom of the list with no support in development of the young talents.
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