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 LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action

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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:41 pm

The following press release was issued today (Sunday February 19) by the Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association:

The Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association at present is unable to produce a playoff draw for our “AAA” tournament due to potential legal action from one of our member schools, St George’s.
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:40 pm

Sportvictoria wrote:
The following press release was issued today (Sunday February 19) by the Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association:

The Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association at present is unable to produce a playoff draw for our “AAA” tournament due to potential legal action from one of our member schools, St George’s.

It might be more correct to say that the LM zone can not produce a draw because of the unfairness, petty bias and inequity of a few LM coaches that want to exclude Independent schools from competition. The BCHSBBA was unable to hold their noses because of the extent of the stink coming off the LM decisions. The BCHSBBA therefore reversed the LM decisions last year and again this year that attempted to exclude independent schools.

The LM decisions are obvious attempts to frustrate and exclude top independent teams from competition, even though BCHSBBA rules exist to allow teams from a two team league a path into the BC's.

Apparently St. George's is tired of all the LM antics. Since the BCHSBBA has done all it can, Saints may be asking a judge to sort it out once and for all. Or perhaps St. George's is hoping that, like cockroaches, the LM coaches will run for cover once the lights are turned on and everyone can see what they are up to.

The problem is not because of St George's.
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CStone



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:02 pm

baller1000 wrote:
Sportvictoria wrote:
The following press release was issued today (Sunday February 19) by the Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association:

The Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association at present is unable to produce a playoff draw for our “AAA” tournament due to potential legal action from one of our member schools, St George’s.

It might be more correct to say that the LM zone can not produce a draw because of the unfairness, petty bias and inequity of a few LM coaches that want to exclude Independent schools from competition. The BCHSBBA was unable to hold their noses because of the extent of the stink coming off the LM decisions. The BCHSBBA therefore reversed the LM decisions last year and again this year that attempted to exclude independent schools.

The LM decisions are obvious attempts to frustrate and exclude top independent teams from competition, even though BCHSBBA rules exist to allow teams from a two team league a path into the BC's.

Apparently St. George's is tired of all the LM antics. Since the BCHSBBA has done all it can, Saints may be asking a judge to sort it out once and for all. Or perhaps St. George's is hoping that, like cockroaches, the LM coaches will run for cover once the lights are turned on and everyone can see what they are up to.

The problem is not because of St George's.

So baller you have to win games to get into the tourney right? I'm just asking cause if you don't then why didn't the other 3 richmond teams get in or the other 7 vancouver teams or the 4 other burnaby teams get into the lower mainlands. Oh ya cause they didn't win the game to keep there season going.

The Provincials is not done like the NCAA final four where you get the best teams based on rankings and tough schedule the BC AAA Provincials are done by qualifying and then the BCHSBBA tourney staff does seeding and comes with a draw.

So i don't get why it is hard to understand. They didn't win the season series against VC so they didn't QUALIFY for the Lower Mainlands.

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cj35



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:05 pm

[quote="baller1000"][quote="Sportvictoria"]The following press release was issued today (Sunday February 19) by the Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association:

The Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association at present is unable to produce a playoff draw for our “AAA” tournament due to potential legal action from one of our member schools, St George’s.[/quote]

It might be more correct to say that the LM zone can not produce a draw because of the unfairness, petty bias and inequity of a few LM coaches that want to exclude Independent schools from competition. The BCHSBBA was unable to hold their noses because of the extent of the stink coming off the LM decisions. The BCHSBBA therefore reversed the LM decisions last year and again this year that attempted to exclude independent schools.

The LM decisions are obvious attempts to frustrate and exclude top independent teams from competition, even though BCHSBBA rules exist to allow teams from a two team league a path into the BC's.

Apparently St. George's is tired of all the LM antics. Since the BCHSBBA has done all it can, Saints may be asking a judge to sort it out once and for all. Or perhaps St. George's is hoping that, like cockroaches, the LM coaches will run for cover once the lights are turned on and everyone can see what they are up to.

The problem is not because of St George's.[/quote]



The problem IS because of St G.

Why is it so hard to understand. Saints has recruited many players successfully and unsucessfully over the years from LM teams.

Yes, so have other teams in the Vancouver League.

BUT those teams already belong to the league, there have been disputes and arguments over this within the VSSAA over the years.
There are bad feelings and tension.

When you screw coaches and schools and their students over year after year why would you then expect them to welcome you into their league with open arms....because you're really good and ranked this year?

Notice that Saints does play in the Vancouver league for Rugby.....because they have not recruited to the same extent....

Yes it is unfortunate these particular players are suffering due to the actions of the school and players before them....but the "stink" you talk about does not come from the VSSAA.
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hoopfan



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 pm

CStone wrote:
baller1000 wrote:
Sportvictoria wrote:
The following press release was issued today (Sunday February 19) by the Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association:

The Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association at present is unable to produce a playoff draw for our “AAA” tournament due to potential legal action from one of our member schools, St George’s.

It might be more correct to say that the LM zone can not produce a draw because of the unfairness, petty bias and inequity of a few LM coaches that want to exclude Independent schools from competition. The BCHSBBA was unable to hold their noses because of the extent of the stink coming off the LM decisions. The BCHSBBA therefore reversed the LM decisions last year and again this year that attempted to exclude independent schools.

The LM decisions are obvious attempts to frustrate and exclude top independent teams from competition, even though BCHSBBA rules exist to allow teams from a two team league a path into the BC's.

Apparently St. George's is tired of all the LM antics. Since the BCHSBBA has done all it can, Saints may be asking a judge to sort it out once and for all. Or perhaps St. George's is hoping that, like cockroaches, the LM coaches will run for cover once the lights are turned on and everyone can see what they are up to.

The problem is not because of St George's.

So baller you have to win games to get into the tourney right? I'm just asking cause if you don't then why didn't the other 3 richmond teams get in or the other 7 vancouver teams or the 4 other burnaby teams get into the lower mainlands. Oh ya cause they didn't win the game to keep there season going.

The Provincials is not done like the NCAA final four where you get the best teams based on rankings and tough schedule the BC AAA Provincials are done by qualifying and then the BCHSBBA tourney staff does seeding and comes with a draw.

So i don't get why it is hard to understand. They didn't win the season series against VC so they didn't QUALIFY for the Lower Mainlands.


In this case it is not just about qualification is about how one feels about fairness; whoever make the rule at the first place did not cover the whole picture by neglect the spirit of competition, they put politics ahead.

It is no different than the BC teacher union is protesting what government had imposed the wage freeze legislation or the overturned of our infamous HST, they saw unfairness in this whole scheme and wanted to dispute. Nothing to do with money…
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hoopfan



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:17 pm

cj35 wrote:
baller1000 wrote:
Sportvictoria wrote:
The following press release was issued today (Sunday February 19) by the Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association:

The Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association at present is unable to produce a playoff draw for our “AAA” tournament due to potential legal action from one of our member schools, St George’s.

It might be more correct to say that the LM zone can not produce a draw because of the unfairness, petty bias and inequity of a few LM coaches that want to exclude Independent schools from competition. The BCHSBBA was unable to hold their noses because of the extent of the stink coming off the LM decisions. The BCHSBBA therefore reversed the LM decisions last year and again this year that attempted to exclude independent schools.

The LM decisions are obvious attempts to frustrate and exclude top independent teams from competition, even though BCHSBBA rules exist to allow teams from a two team league a path into the BC's.

Apparently St. George's is tired of all the LM antics. Since the BCHSBBA has done all it can, Saints may be asking a judge to sort it out once and for all. Or perhaps St. George's is hoping that, like cockroaches, the LM coaches will run for cover once the lights are turned on and everyone can see what they are up to.

The problem is not because of St George's.



The problem IS because of St G.

Why is it so hard to understand. Saints has recruited many players successfully and unsucessfully over the years from LM teams.

Yes, so have other teams in the Vancouver League.

BUT those teams already belong to the league, there have been disputes and arguments over this within the VSSAA over the years.
There are bad feelings and tension.

When you screw coaches and schools and their students over year after year why would you then expect them to welcome you into their league with open arms....because you're really good and ranked this year?

Notice that Saints does play in the Vancouver league for Rugby.....because they have not recruited to the same extent....

Yes it is unfortunate these particular players are suffering due to the actions of the school and players before them....but the "stink" you talk about does not come from the VSSAA.



So you are telling me that it is OK for public school to recruit but not the independants. WOW!
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:19 pm

One big difference is that they are in a two team league. That is not by their choice. They have asked to play in the LM league but the LM won't let them in.

So the LM zone has a rule that says if these IND teams can show they are a top three team in the zone then they can qualify for the zone tournament. Both teams clearly are, but the LM said they had not proven that because they had not played enough other teams in the zone. Why didn't the IND play other teams in the zone, you ask? Well, because the zone teams wouldn't play them, that's why.

So the zone won't play against them and then the zone uses the argument that they haven't played, as the reason to deny them access to the tournament. The simplest thing would be for the LM to let them play in one of their zones and qualify like every other team, but they won't do that either. Starting to see a pattern yet?

They are in a two team league by no choice of their own. Allowing only one team to advance, may seem fair on its face, but not if they are two of the top ten in the province stuck in two team league. I don't think that either of them would be making the argument if they were not a legit top ten team.

There is a provision with BCHSBBA that when top teams are trapped in a two team league, they must be given a route to qualify. That is why BCHSBBA over-ruled the LM first decision to only allow one of them in to the tournament but left it to the LM zone to figure out how to have Saints play in.

Last year the LM came up with a four game play in which effectively exhausted Saints in advance of the tournament (no accident there). So while the LM has been told, once again, to provide a way for Saints to qualify, it is probably just as stupid and unfair as last year.

This situation is nothing like other teams qualifying in their zones.

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stocktonsshorts



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:20 pm

Wow, potential legal action! I know there has been some talk about a proposal where the private schools and public schools compete in different leagues for seperate championships, similar to what takes place down south in many different states. I wonder if this latest development, where a member school which happens to be private is threatening to sue a governing body would increase interest in that idea. I'm guessing that if a public school were to do the same thing it would not be loooked upon very favourably by the other members.
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:27 pm

For some additional perspective and to add some background here is an article written last year when the LM was dealing with the exact same thing.

BY MEGAN STEWART, VANCOUVER COURIER MARCH 9, 2011


If I were wearing a hat, I'd tip it to the basketball players who dressed this week for the St. George's Saints and Kitsilano Blue Demons. These athletes--teenaged but many of them manly in appearance and occasionally even in demeanour--played two feverishly charged games to keep their season alive. Both surely feel they're the most deserving of the fifth regional berth to the 20-seed Provincials.

Advocates for and against the wildcard play-in argue these athletes are paying the greatest price should they not advance. I'm exhausted by this argument and I'll ask again: Which athletes, exactly? Either way, as one parent wrote on the topic of winners and losers: "If the goal is to allow kids to become the best they can at a sport, they need to play the toughest games they can. Great players are often made in the losses not the wins."

Too true. The team that advances and the team that doesn't will both taste the bittersweet effect of adult politics. Through various mechanisms of different league and zone draws, tournaments and play-ins, historical standards and new precedents, the B.C. Boys High School Basketball Association has landed in this mess that has more finger pointing than a preschool class at a petting zoo. Parents, coaches, athletic directors and voting board members with the basketball association are increasingly tightlipped. Off the record, some sense an escalation that may lead to legal action.

Manipulation of the Lower Mainland tournament, which saw the draw drop from 16 to 12 teams, coupled with the departure of one of only three basketball programs from the independent school league at the AAA level, left Vancouver College and St. George's to battle for a single berth instead of two entries to Lower Mainlands last year and again this winter.

If this precedent continues, one of the perennially top 20 B.C. teams won't advance to Provincials. But a proportional and regional berthing formula has traditionally drawn teams from across the province, even if those teams don't rank and rarely contend. The tournament is having an identity crisis.

The association will hash it out at an AGM March 19 but strong-arming the Lower Mainland executive again will lead to resentment and ill will. Collateral damage includes fans of amateur sport. One wrote to tell me the "Saints play-in [is] causing weird vibes."

Although the Saints were eliminated from advancing to the Lower Mainlands, their roster and team photo appear in the 32-page tournament program. "Figure that one out," deadpanned one public school coach. Another said he was "furious."

Are influential public school coaches determined to prevent the private schools from advancing over their own programs, as some outsiders contend? Do ideology or envy factor in? Is it accurate that parents who send their child to a high school that charges thousands in tuition don't pay to lose, as others have suggested? Does entitlement factor in?

We know both these teams are excellent, deserving and the basketball they played this week superb. I can see one price the players pay: their athletic achievements are robbed of full attention and acclaim because of controversy. Point your fingers.

mstewart@vancourier.com



Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/sports/Jock+Jill+Wildcard+controversy/4409616/story.html#ixzz1GA80WMv9
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cj35



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:50 pm

[quote="hoopfan"][quote="cj35"][quote="baller1000"][quote="Sportvictoria"]The following press release was issued today (Sunday February 19) by the Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association:

The Lower Mainland High School Boys Basketball Association at present is unable to produce a playoff draw for our “AAA” tournament due to potential legal action from one of our member schools, St George’s.[/quote]

It might be more correct to say that the LM zone can not produce a draw because of the unfairness, petty bias and inequity of a few LM coaches that want to exclude Independent schools from competition. The BCHSBBA was unable to hold their noses because of the extent of the stink coming off the LM decisions. The BCHSBBA therefore reversed the LM decisions last year and again this year that attempted to exclude independent schools.

The LM decisions are obvious attempts to frustrate and exclude top independent teams from competition, even though BCHSBBA rules exist to allow teams from a two team league a path into the BC's.

Apparently St. George's is tired of all the LM antics. Since the BCHSBBA has done all it can, Saints may be asking a judge to sort it out once and for all. Or perhaps St. George's is hoping that, like cockroaches, the LM coaches will run for cover once the lights are turned on and everyone can see what they are up to.

The problem is not because of St George's.[/quote]


No I'm telling you lots of people are upset at each others actions including public school v public school

But when you upset people and then ask a favour to join their league well....the conclusion should not be difficult to figure out.




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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:00 am

I'm all for getting the best teams in the tournament and I totally support public and private schools playing in the same leagues and for the same championships, but I HATE what Saints is doing here. This is high school sport. Legal action shouldn't be the last option, it shouldn't be an option. Saints and VC need to find a better way to associate with the lowermainland public school coaches and basketball executives. Address the animosity and develop a solution rather than further distancing the private schools from the publics. Getting lawyers involved won't end up well for anyone, including Saints.
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PostSubject: Out of Class Warfare   Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:08 am

It seems perennial Toronto powerhouses, Oakwood Collegiate and Eastern Commerce, have decided enough-is-enough and will strike against the rising competition threatened by...... Upper Canada College....


Out of Class Warfare
Toronto Standard
February 19, 2012

In a move designed to follow in the footsteps of Vancouver’s lower mainland zone coaches, Oakwood Collegiate and Eastern Commerce have tabled a motion at the Toronto high school basketball association annual general meeting to exclude Upper Canada College and St. Michael’s School from competing in the Toronto high school league. If the vote is successful, beginning in the 2012-2013 season, those two schools would be required to compete in their own two-team league, with only one team being permitted to advance to the provincial championships, regardless of their provincial ranking. Furthermore, there would be no way to obtain a wild-card or play-in games against other teams.

The coaches at Oakwood and Eastern Commerce, who have spear-headed the motion, argue that it would be fair and “democratic” since there would be a vote to exclude the two independent schools. UCC and St. Michael’s are presenting a legal challenge to the motion saying they just want to compete on equal footing and are more than willing to accept the same rules as the other schools. They want to stay in the league but know they will be out-voted if it is put to a general vote, where public schools far out-number the two independents.

There is no precedent anywhere in Ontario for a two-team league and other independents compete in their local leagues. The Ontario High School BBA has come out strongly against this effort by the Toronto high school coaches as they believe it as a transparent attempt to exclude these two schools from competing based on political views of a few coaches. The head of OHSBBA, C. Sense, stated in today’s press release that “it takes more than money to win a basketball championship, despite being the richest school in Canada, Upper Canada College has never been strong in basketball and its financial and academic requirements have usually presented a challenge to attracting top-level players”. He also said, “It takes a commitment to the sport and a strong desire to win to build a winning program. These are all benefits to the general basketball community - we are surprised that these schools are running from the competition”

The local Hooplife forum has been abuzz. As one irate poster put it, “UCC has so much money that they can literally buy a championship. We could not compete, so we are doing this to ensure there is always a playing field tilted in our favour”. Many public school coaches are staunchly against this attempt to exclude the independent schools. As one said, “bring on the competition, they have all the same rules, we are not afraid of UCC as some are afraid of Vancouver College and St. George’s in Vancouver - we want them in our league”.

This move is all the more puzzling, since many top high school players are leaving to play for leading prep schools in the United States. The Toronto programs are becoming watered down, and any attempt to reduce competition or penalize strong programs, will only further alienate the best players and increase transfers out of the region.

In a surprising admission, the head of the Toronto high school basketball association said this evening that “we have put our best minds on this problem, and all we could come up with is to exclude the independents from our league. We know they want to compete with us, but we will vote democratically not to let that happen. Hey, it works better for us that way - one less competitor”.




Last edited by Mark Scott on Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:17 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:21 am

M-5 wrote:
I'm all for getting the best teams in the tournament and I totally support public and private schools playing in the same leagues and for the same championships, but I HATE what Saints is doing here. This is high school sport. Legal action shouldn't be the last option, it shouldn't be an option. Saints and VC need to find a better way to associate with the lowermainland public school coaches and basketball executives. Address the animosity and develop a solution rather than further distancing the private schools from the publics. Getting lawyers involved won't end up well for anyone, including Saints.

The LM zone reshuffled the deck 2 years ago to eliminate a berth. They won't let the IND play in their zone. They ignore their own rules regarding zone qualification. They won't play the IND and then use the fact that they have not played, to exclude them. They are overruled by the Board of Governors. They construct absurd play-ins to wear out teenage players.

All the while, the IND have opened themselves to scrutiny by, and co-operated with, BCHSBBA, including a committee that looked at recruiting and transfers last year and found nothing.

In the face of that, you suggest what? They should turn the other cheek?

I don't speak for Saints, but given the unreasonable and irrational behaviour of the LM zone, I suspect Saints have had enough of trying to "play nice" when the LM zone just continues to come up with new ways to frustrate, what to most people, is only fair.


Last edited by baller1000 on Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:25 am

Great article and certainly the similarities are there.
I wish some of the LM coaches would be as honest about their motives as the Ontario coach.
If everyone is playing under the same rules, let's get on with it.
Basketball in BC will benefit if we can keep everyone playing for the same title and with the same opportunity.
The BC tournament is a gem...don't let it get watered down by a few who see personal opportunity in excluding the independent schools. Let's hope we don't see the day when more and more of our top players choose to go elsewhere because the BC's have lost their luster.
I would love to wake up one day to hear the independents were in the Vancouver league. It is the best answer.
Get together guys...take the positive approach and stop all the fighting. Do you ever even talk to each other???
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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:15 am

Arent lower mainlands supposed to start tomorrow what happens if they do not start on time?
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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:53 am

M-5, they've tried to find solutions but these few LM hypocrites are making it tougher for everybody else. They've known for years that it would come to this... And now they're playing the role of the victim.

The LM is breaking the established rules...and those responsible should foot the legal bill. I hope more LM teams that have lost their elite players to these elite PUBLIC LM programs support the clearly established rules which permit the Saints to play.

PS: I don't like the Saints
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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:03 pm

does anybody have an update? are they expecting to have this case heard in a court today? do courts even have the time to deal with a basketball motion?
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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:11 pm

baller1000 wrote:
M-5 wrote:
I'm all for getting the best teams in the tournament and I totally support public and private schools playing in the same leagues and for the same championships, but I HATE what Saints is doing here. This is high school sport. Legal action shouldn't be the last option, it shouldn't be an option. Saints and VC need to find a better way to associate with the lowermainland public school coaches and basketball executives. Address the animosity and develop a solution rather than further distancing the private schools from the publics. Getting lawyers involved won't end up well for anyone, including Saints.

The LM zone reshuffled the deck 2 years ago to eliminate a berth. They won't let the IND play in their zone. They ignore their own rules regarding zone qualification. They won't play the IND and then use the fact that they have not played, to exclude them. They are overruled by the Board of Governors. They construct absurd play-ins to wear out teenage players.

All the while, the IND have opened themselves to scrutiny by, and co-operated with, BCHSBBA, including a committee that looked at recruiting and transfers last year and found nothing.

In the face of that, you suggest what? They should turn the other cheek?

I don't speak for Saints, but given the unreasonable and irrational behaviour of the LM zone, I suspect Saints have had enough of trying to "play nice" when the LM zone just continues to come up with new ways to frustrate, what to most people, is only fair.

http://www.bcschoolsports.ca/pages/publications/pdfs/hdbk/Section_IV_Competitive_Rules_Regulations.pdf

I really don't believe should be a public debate and that the league board of governors should decide what is fair. If teams can not abide by these rules then form their own league and make up your own rules. Oops hasn't this already happened? I can not understand how the saints and their fans can cry foul. Ask your coaches why the big grade 10 kid moved from Kelowna the #1 team in BC. He was recruited through all ball academy.
How did the kid from Vernon end up playing at WRCA last season with out red shirting in his grade 12 year. BC school sports has no teeth and the Private schools end up skirting the rules because they know the elibility officer and know what story they need to hear.
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PostSubject: End-game   Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:02 pm

Well... the sad thing is this St. George's action may just be the end-game. The push for seperate public/private championships has been getting stronger and stronger. This very well could be what makes it happen.
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JrCoachS



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:22 pm

Saints and VC have one championship between them in the last 15 years. Who cares if players go to their schools, its obviously only paying off at the younger levels where winning an Invitational "Provincial" tournament means nothing, really. Best teams should always be in Provincials at the SR level. But it doesn't always work out that way. Handsworth was upset in Rob's SR year and life went on.
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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:28 pm

Fox2030 wrote:
baller1000 wrote:
M-5 wrote:
I'm all for getting the best teams in the tournament and I totally support public and private schools playing in the same leagues and for the same championships, but I HATE what Saints is doing here. This is high school sport. Legal action shouldn't be the last option, it shouldn't be an option. Saints and VC need to find a better way to associate with the lowermainland public school coaches and basketball executives. Address the animosity and develop a solution rather than further distancing the private schools from the publics. Getting lawyers involved won't end up well for anyone, including Saints.

The LM zone reshuffled the deck 2 years ago to eliminate a berth. They won't let the IND play in their zone. They ignore their own rules regarding zone qualification. They won't play the IND and then use the fact that they have not played, to exclude them. They are overruled by the Board of Governors. They construct absurd play-ins to wear out teenage players.

All the while, the IND have opened themselves to scrutiny by, and co-operated with, BCHSBBA, including a committee that looked at recruiting and transfers last year and found nothing.

In the face of that, you suggest what? They should turn the other cheek?

I don't speak for Saints, but given the unreasonable and irrational behaviour of the LM zone, I suspect Saints have had enough of trying to "play nice" when the LM zone just continues to come up with new ways to frustrate, what to most people, is only fair.

http://www.bcschoolsports.ca/pages/publications/pdfs/hdbk/Section_IV_Competitive_Rules_Regulations.pdf

I really don't believe should be a public debate and that the league board of governors should decide what is fair. If teams can not abide by these rules then form their own league and make up your own rules. Oops hasn't this already happened? I can not understand how the saints and their fans can cry foul. Ask your coaches why the big grade 10 kid moved from Kelowna the #1 team in BC. He was recruited through all ball academy.
How did the kid from Vernon end up playing at WRCA last season with out red shirting in his grade 12 year. BC school sports has no teeth and the Private schools end up skirting the rules because they know the elibility officer and know what story they need to hear.

There was another tranfer last year in the same Fraser Valley SW Conference. Tamanawis's starting Senior post last year tranfered (played gr 11 @ Burnsview which is only a couple of miles away from Tamy) and was allowed to play.
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ronh_pm



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:30 pm

Sportvictoria wrote:
Well... the sad thing is this St. George's action may just be the end-game. The push for seperate public/private championships has been getting stronger and stronger. This very well could be what makes it happen.

To me it looks like a perfect opportunity for BC Boys Basketball to make an offer that the independants cant really refuse.

Provided they abide by the same transfer and eligibilty rules as everyone else, welcome the independents into the zones in which their school resides across the province. WRCA may want to voluntarily play by the rules the rest are working with now as well. No reason why AA could not do the same.

If they are not willing to play by the rules that is fine as well and it would only take but a vote to rescind the offer to the one independent that is invited to the LM zones and an eraser to clean up the wishy washy rules regarding the 2nd independent.

I would guess that when tournament invites went out for the Legal Beagle/Snowball/Western Canada/NSIT events and there were not included for the independents they would realize that it was in thiers and BC Boys Basketball interests to play nicely.
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:35 pm

ronh_pm wrote:
Sportvictoria wrote:
Well... the sad thing is this St. George's action may just be the end-game. The push for seperate public/private championships has been getting stronger and stronger. This very well could be what makes it happen.

To me it looks like a perfect opportunity for BC Boys Basketball to make an offer that the independants cant really refuse.

Provided they abide by the same transfer and eligibilty rules as everyone else, welcome the independents into the zones in which their school resides across the province. WRCA may want to voluntarily play by the rules the rest are working with now as well. No reason why AA could not do the same.

Transfer and recruiting rules are set out in the BC School Sports Regulations. All schools, public and private, must abide by them. If there is evidence the rules are not being followed, there is provision for complaints to be made and sanctions to be imposed.

Also, to correct another poster, VC has actually not won the BC's since 1964. So, in fact, these two "cheaters" that have everyone so upset have one championship between them in the last 48 years. Yep, one each in almost 50 years! Definitely, must be something going on that we need to crack down on. Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:01 pm

baller1000 wrote:
ronh_pm wrote:
Sportvictoria wrote:
Well... the sad thing is this St. George's action may just be the end-game. The push for seperate public/private championships has been getting stronger and stronger. This very well could be what makes it happen.

To me it looks like a perfect opportunity for BC Boys Basketball to make an offer that the independants cant really refuse.

Provided they abide by the same transfer and eligibilty rules as everyone else, welcome the independents into the zones in which their school resides across the province. WRCA may want to voluntarily play by the rules the rest are working with now as well. No reason why AA could not do the same.

Transfer and recruiting rules are set out in the BC School Sports Regulations. All schools, public and private, must abide by them. If there is evidence the rules are not being followed, there is provision for complaints to be made and sanctions to be imposed.

Also, to correct another poster, VC has actually not won the BC's since 1964. So, in fact, these two "cheaters" that have everyone so upset have one championship between them in the last 48 years. Yep, one each in almost 50 years! Definitely, must be something going on that we need to crack down on. Rolling Eyes


Even Better!

Then, as they are playing by the same rules as the other schools there is no logical reason whatsoever why they should not be playing in the same leagues as the other schools.

Play ball!
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CharlesII



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:14 am

Saints had two things to do to make Lower Mainlands and that was to beat VC twice, simple. VC had one thing to do to make Lower Mainlands and that was to beat Saints twice, simple. VC got the job done, Saints didn't. The rules are entrenched and I find it HILARIOUS how Saints time and time again feel like they deserve a second chance to slither by these rules. What about the other 40-50 teams who didn't make Lower Mainlands? For example, McMath, David Thompson, etc. Of course, McMath and David Thompson are not a team like the Saints but they know they didn't get the job done and that's why they aren't in the 12 team tournament. Why couldn't Saints, prior to the season talk to the board about possibly changing the Independent format, not after when they lose, that's garbage. In my opinion...you do belong in the LM tournament there is no doubt about it. However, to file a lawsuit and to postpone the tournament is outrageous. Take this with a grain of salt and suggest a change in the format PRIOR to the start of next season instead of crying about it after being beat by VC. Like I said, the fact of the matter is...you guys couldn't get the job done. Who's at fault for that? You are.
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