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 LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action

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Sim



Posts : 136
Join date : 2011-02-27

PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:54 pm

And the people moving these motions are the biggest culprits. As predicted last month...the inmates are running the asylum.
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okanaganbball



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Join date : 2010-02-22
Location : The Okanagan

PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:59 pm

Sim wrote:
Don't get your hopes up guys. The LM publics are trying to branch off. It'll give the likes of Kits & Churchill a huge recruiting advantage. Why would a kid want to play at an independent and have a 50% shot of making the BC's when they could be recruited to a public school and get in by default.

Where does it say public schools will get into the BC's by default?
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Sim



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:04 pm

The LM publics will most likely have 4-5 spots at the BC's going forward if this motion is approved. A few schools have monopolized the recruiting process in the LM. They have all but guaranteed themselves an annual spot in Langley.
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:08 pm

I apologize for the size of this post but do it to make a point. Below are the rules, taken from BC School Sports, regarding transfers and eligibility. These are not even all of them. There are more that deal with recruiting and scholarships, coaches conduct. If you take the time to read them you will see that they have been drafted to take into account differences between public and private school enrollments.

Some of the rules are new and were brought in just last year to deal with the specific complaints (although unfounded) of LM coaches regarding transfers before Grade 10. Another poster has pointed out that the BCHSBBA did an investigation in response to these complaints and found nothing. Nevertheless, the new rules are there and they apply to all schools, including the ind schools.

In light of all of these rules PLUS the new rules that have been put in place, there is NO REASON to exclude Ind schools from competition. If there is proof of any actual cheating, the rules are there and so are the sanctions, fines and penalties that would apply to the offenders. That is as level a playing field as we are going to get.

As has been pointed out, over and over again, many of the PUBLIC schools have benefited substantially from transfers, including Mr. Eberhart's RC Palmer, with the team that won Provincials last year. I might also point out, that Mr. Eberhart's RC Palmer has moved up and down from AA to AAA and back down to AA 3 times in as many years. So, if a public school can do this without question, so can IND schools like Notre Dame and STM, for reasons that have nothing to do with any impugned impropriety on the part of other schools in their league (as has been suggested by others).

IND schools are part of the landscape and education system in this province. They can not be, and should not be, excluded from participating with other schools that are part of the same system.
There are enough transgressions by all types of schools to go around. Dredging up stuff that may or may not have happened years ago, is nothing but a wedge used by some coaches that continue to hold grudges.

If there was only one these schools, what would the LM schools do? They have a right to compete with other schools. The fact that there are two and that they are in a "league" seems to be the only rationale that the LM is hanging on to in order to exclude them. A two team league is not viable and makes no sense. Can that even be considered a "league"?

Why not let them in, expand the LM tournament back to 16 teams and have 6 not 5 berths to the BC's, like existed before the LM started to engineer all of this. We would have more kids playing basketball with more opportunity for everyone.

As Mr. Eberhart has said, the only reason that the IND are not playing in a league with the other Vancouver schools is because the other schools will not let them. So there we are, right back with the coaches and those old grudges.


Competitive rules & regulations

Section D12: STuDENT-ATHLETE TRANSFERS
A transfer occurs whenever a student-athlete who is registered at any school (within or
outside of BC) transfers and is registered at a different school. A transferring studentathlete who competes on a team at the new school changes the competitive balance that
would have been in place prior to the transfer. Consequently, the BCSS membership has
developed regulations governing the eligibility of student-athletes who transfer schools
and wish to participate in extra-curricular school sport.
Section D12A: ADVANCE RuLINg ON ELIgIBILITY
d12a.1 A member school may apply in writing to the Eligibility Officer through the BCSS
office for an advance ruling on a student-athlete’s eligibility to participate in restricted
competition at the school for one (1)or more sports.
(a) An application for the current school year may be brought at any time.
(b) An application for the following school year may only be brought after the
BCSS Annual General Meeting for the current school year.
d12a.2 An application under D12A.1 shall contain a completed and signed BCSS Eligibility
Advance Ruling Form.
d12a.3 The Eligibility Officer may request further information from the applicant school, and
may decline to issue a ruling if he or she considers that the applicant school has not
provided sufficient information.
d12a.4 Subject to D12A.3, the Eligibility Officer shall issue a written ruling to the applicant
school stating that the student-athlete is eligible or ineligible for restricted
competition in one or more sports for the current or following year based on the
facts submitted by the applicant school.
d12a.5 Where a student-athlete is ruled ineligible, the student-athlete is deemed to be
ineligible for the purposes of sections C5 (Violations of Eligibility Policies) and D1
(Student-athlete Eligibility) for the year and sport or sports referred to in the ruling.
d12a.6 Where a student-athlete is ruled eligible, the student-athlete is deemed to be
eligible for the purposes of sections C5 (Violations of Eligibility Polices) and D1
(Student-athlete Eligibility) for the year and sport or sports referred to in the ruling,
provided, however, that:
(a) the facts submitted by the applicant school are correct; and,
(b) the student-athlete:
(i) is not ineligible for restricted competition on the basis of facts not
contained in the application.
(ii) does not become ineligible after the ruling is issued.
d12.1 Statement Regarding the Student-athlete's Home School: the school at which the
student-athlete is registered on the first (1st) day of their first (1st) year of eligibility is
the student-athlete's "home school" and is the school at which the student-athlete has
athletic eligibility. The exception would be where a local district policy has prejudiced
the student-athlete's ability to attend their new school on the first (1st) day of the
new school year. A student-athlete's first (1st) year of eligibility is counted from the
September of grade 8 entry, and starts on the first (1st) day of school in the applicable
school year.2011-12 www.bcschoolsports.ca 41
Competitive rules & regulations
d12.3 transfers: subject to d13, a student-athlete who transfers from his/her “home
school” after the first (1st ) day of his/her first (1st) year of eligibility (Grade
Cool is ineligible for a period of twelve (12) months from the date of transfer to
participate in restricted and unrestricted competition in any school sport(s) in
which he/she was registered for a member school in the twelve (12) months prior
to the date of transfer unless one (1) of the conditions in d12.3.1-d12.3.11 is met
(may, 2011):
at the time of online registration of a transferred student-athlete as an "eligible
student-athlete in the school, there must be a confirmation as to why the studentathlete is eligible. this is done through the online registration system. Please
read the conditions below carefully to determine if additional confirmation is
required. (d12.3.1 – d12.3.11)
In addition to completion of the transfer form as part of the online registration process, a Compliance and
Authorization Form must be submitted and be signed by the Administrators and Athletic Directors of both the
leaving and receiving schools, and by the student-athlete's parent or legal guardian.
notes:
(a. for middle school and junior secondary students who will feed into a more senior school that school will be
deemed their home school as the student advances into the more senior grades.)
(b. for the 2011-2012 school years this modification will be phased in for grade 8 and 9 students to allow for parents
to be educated about rules and regulations pertaining to high school sports. Student-athletes will establish their
‘home school’ in grade 9 beginning September 1, 2011 and in grade 8 beginning September 1, 2012.)
d12.3.1 Student-athlete Advancing to a More Senior School:
(a) a student-athlete graduating from a middle school or junior secondary
school may proceed to the school into which his/her middle school or
junior secondary school normally feeds, without any restrictions
(b) notwithstanding D12.3.1(a) above, a student-athlete graduating from
a middle school / junior secondary may proceed to any other public
school in the same school district, as long as District policy is followed,
and the Administrators and Athletic Directors of the two (2) schools
involved are in agreement. (An Online Transfer Form must be completed online with
the registration of the student-athlete on the online Student-Athlete Registration Form.)
(c) if the student-athlete attended a non-public school not offering senior
grades, this student-athlete can transfer to a similar non-public school
offering senior grades, providing the receiving school is the next
closest similar non-public school geographically to where the studentathlete lives. The student-athlete can also advance to a public school
offering senior grades, as per the normal catchment boundaries of the
school district in which the student-athlete resides. (“Online Transfer Form”
must be completed online with the registration of the student-athlete on the online StudentAthlete Registration Form.)
d12.3.2 New School Constructed, School District Reorganized or School is
Closed: School Districts and /or schools must apply for approval from
the BCSS Eligibility Officer prior to any student-athlete being eligible.
A complete list of those student-athletes impacted must be provided to
BCSS with the following information for each student-athlete:
(a) name
(b) date of birth
(c) current grade being eligible for restricted and unrestricted competition
(d) grade 8 entry date
(e) previous school
(f) new school
(g) will they be attending their catchment school? Yes or No42 www.bcschoolsports.ca 2011-12
Competitive rules & regulations
(h) if 'No' to 'g', then reasons for choosing the school to be identified.
d12.3.3 change of Principal residence: the student-athlete and his or her
parent(s) or legal guardian(s) [see definitions] have changed their
principal residence in the previous twelve (12) months. the change
of residence must not be for the purpose of making the studentathlete eligible for restricted competition at a member school. the
student-athlete does not become eligible under this category until
the member school submits to Bcss a statutory declaration by
the parent or legal guardian in a form acceptable to the executive
director which attests to the details and reason for the change of
residence.
(a) Move within the Same Public School District: if the new principal
residence is within the boundaries of the same school district, the
student-athlete can remain eligible by not changing schools, or will
be immediately eligible at the public school into whose catchment
boundaries the family has moved (An Online Transfer Form must be completed
online with the registration of the student-athlete on the online Student-Athlete Registration
Form. In addition, a Statutory Declaration Form must be forwarded to the BCSS office within
seven (7) school days of the online registration)
(b) Move into a Different Public School District: if the parents' or legal
guardians' new principal residence is in a different public school
district, the student-athlete will be eligible at any public school in
the new district in accordance with school district policy concerning
student-athlete placements, or will be eligible at any non-public
school whose main school building is located within the geographical
boundaries of the new public school district (An Online Transfer Form must
be completed online with the registration of the student-athlete on the online Student-Athlete
Registration Form. In addition, a Statutory Declaration Form must be forwarded to the BCSS
office within seven (7) school days of the online registration)
d12.3.4 Parent to Parent Move: the student-athlete transfers from one (1) school to
another school in order to reside with the parent with whom he/she has not
been living. Only two (2) transfers for the purpose of moving from parent to
parent are allowed after the first day of the student-athlete's first (1st) year of
eligibility. The move must not be for the purpose of making the student-athlete
eligible for restricted or unrestricted competition at a member school. If the
move is within the same school district, the eligible transfer must be to the
school within whose catchment area the receiving parent lives, and must be
a transfer into the same kind of school (ie: public to public, regional secondary
to regional secondary, non-public to non-public). If the move is from within the
boundaries of one (1) school district into another, the student-athlete will be
eligible at any public or non-public school within the geographical boundaries
of the new school district. (An Online Transfer Form must be completed online with the
registration of the student-athlete on the online Student-Athlete Registration Form. In addition, a
Statutory Declaration Form must be forwarded to the BCSS office within seven (7) school days of
the online registration)2011-12 www.bcschoolsports.ca 43
Competitive rules & regulations
(a) Move to Legal Guardian: The rules in D12.3.4 apply with necessary
changes where a student-athlete moves from any living circumstance
to live with a legal guardian [See Definitions]. The student-athlete
does not become eligible under this category until the member school
submits to BCSS a statutory declaration by the legal guardian in a
form acceptable to the Executive Director which attests to the details
and reason for the change of residence.
eligibility will only be granted for the secondary school in whose
catchment area the ‘Guardian’ resides (Public school to Public
school transfer) or the nearest non-public school (non-Public
school to non-Public school transfer). if the student-athlete
transfers to any other school that ‘receiving school’ must submit
an eligibility application.the legal guardian must also have
supported or maintained the child for the previous twelve (12)
months. (may, 2011)
d12.3.5 District Academic Program: a student-athlete in a public school transfers
to another public school in the same school district for a special, shortterm academic program that meets the conditions outlined below. The
student-athlete is only eligible to compete for their original school.
The district academic program must meet all of the following conditions
for the student-athlete to be eligible to compete at their original school
during attendance at the district academic program:
(a) the district academic program is no more than one (1) school year in
length
(b) the student-athlete will be returning to their original school
immediately upon the conclusion of the district academic program
(c) the program is a district academic program housed at the particular
receiving school
(d) the district academic program is a coherent program, not just a series
of courses
(e) the program is not a career preparation program. If the studentathlete wishes to participate in restricted or unrestricted competition
for the school housing the special district academic program, the
school must file an Eligibility Application in accordance with D13 of
these Competitive Rules and Regulations. If the student-athlete does
participate for the receiving school in either restricted or unrestricted
competition, they will not be eligible at their original school upon
return after the conclusion of the district academic program [see
D12.3.9]. (An Online Transfer Form must be completed online with the registration of the
student-athlete on the online Student-Athlete Registration Form.)
d12.3.6 Alternate Program / Schools: if an alternate program / school is
an offshoot of a particular Member School (home school), and is
administered by that home school’s Administrator, the student-athletes
in the alternate program are eligible to compete for the home school. If
a student-athlete transfers to an alternate program administered by a
different Principal, the move is considered to be a transfer, and transfer
restrictions shall apply. (An Online Transfer Form must be completed online with the
registration of the student-athlete on the online Student-Athlete Registration Form.) *Please
Also Refer to Section D11.
d12.3.7 Student-athlete Transferring from an Alternate School or Distributed
Learning School:
(a) a student-athlete who is attending an alternate school in a school
district remains eligible upon transfer to the public school in whose
catchment area the student-athlete resides44 www.bcschoolsports.ca 2011-12
Competitive rules & regulations
(b) a student-athlete who is registered at a Ministry of Education
Distributed Learning School remains eligible upon transfer to the
public school in whose catchment area the student-athlete resides. (An
Online Transfer Form must be completed online with the registration of the student-athlete
on the online Student-Athlete Registration Form.) *Please also refer to Section
D11.
d12.3.8 Short Term Transfer and Return to Home School: a student-athlete who
transfers to another school for a period of one (1) school year or less,
and who has not participated in interschool competition in any BCSSapproved sport while attending that school, will regain athletic eligibility
upon transferring back to his/her home school. (An Online Transfer Form must
be completed online with the registration of the student-athlete on the online Student-Athlete
Registration Form.)
d12.3.9 Incoming Exchange Student-athlete: a student-athlete who transfers into
a BCSS Member School as an incoming exchange student-athlete is
eligible to compete for the receiving school only if the conditions in either
(a) or (b) are met:
(a) Non-profit Exchange Program:
i) the student-athlete is registered as a student-athlete in a BCSS
approved exchange program and appropriate confirmation is
submitted during online registration
ii) the student-athlete is only eligible for the duration of the actual
exchange program
iii) the British Columbia family with whom the student-athlete is
residing is considered to be the family of record for the duration of
the student-athlete’s stay
iv) the student-athlete’s exchange period in BC is of at least five
(5) months or one (1) semester’s duration. The only exception
will be for the BC Ministry of Education Germany and Quebec
exchanges.
v) the student-athlete is eligible as per all other BCSS eligibility
policies, including age and the eligibility calendar
vi) the student-athlete has not graduated from the high school
program International Exchange, Student Travel Schools,
World Youth in their home country or province. BCSS approved
Exchange Programs are AFS Interculture Canada, Cultural
Homestay International, Educational Foundation Exchange,
Rotary Services and the Ministry of Education German and
Quebec Exchange Programs. (“Online Transfer Form” must be completed
online with the registration of the student-athlete on the online Student-Athlete
Registration Form.)
(b) School-to-School Exchange Programs:
i) the school-to-school exchange agreement has been in place
at least five (5) years prior to automatic eligibility status being
conveyed, and the exchange program must go in both directions
ii) the appropriate registration confirmation is submitted during
online registration
iii) the student-athlete is only eligible for the duration of the actual
exchange program
iv) the British Columbia family with whom the student-athlete is
residing is considered to be the family of record for the duration of
the student-athlete’s stay
v) the student-athlete’s exchange period in BC is of at least five (5)
months or one (1) semester’s duration
vi) the student-athlete is eligible as per all other BCSS eligibility
policies, including age and the eligibility calendar2011-12 www.bcschoolsports.ca 45
Competitive rules & regulations
d12.3.11 Incoming International Student-athletes to a Public School District: a
student-athlete who transfers into a BCSS public Member School as an
incoming international student is eligible to compete for the receiving
school if they meet all of the following conditions:
the student-athletes transfers into British Columbia from a country
other than Canada or the United States
(b) the student-athlete is registered in a public school district as an
"international student", and pays tuition to that school district as per
established and published school district policy
(c) the student-athlete has been accepted by that school district on the
basis of academic suitability
(d) the incoming student-athlete will be enrolled at the receiving school
for at least a consecutive five (5) month or one (1) semester period
(e) the Superintendent of the school district or their district designate
responsible for the international student program shall verify in writing
that:
i) the acceptance of the student-athlete and placement of the
student-athlete in a particular school is based solely on academic
criteria, and
ii) that a student-athlete's possible participation in extra-curricular
athletics was not a factor in acceptance to the school district or a
particular school, and
iii) this verification will be submitted to the BCSS office prior to any
participation in restricted competition in BCSS-approved sport.
iv) the incoming student-athlete will be enrolled at the boarding
school for at least five (5) consecutive months, or one (1)
semester
(f) guardianship has been established by school district personnel or the
custodial homestay or the student-athlete has been assigned to the
homestay family as the off-shore family designate (“Online Transfer Form”
must be completed online with the registration of the student-athlete on the online StudentAthlete Registration Form. In addition, all requested documents as noted above must be
forwarded to the BCSS office within seven (7) school days of the online registration)
(g) the student-athlete has been placed in a home-stay with a family who
has been resident in the school district for a period of at least six (6)
months prior to the home-stay placement. (“Online Transfer Form” must be
completed online with the registration of the student-athlete on the online Student-Athlete
Registration Form)
d12.3.12 Incoming International Student-athletes to an Non-Public School: a
student-athlete who transfers into a BCSS non-public school Member
School as an incoming international student-athlete is eligible to compete
for the receiving school if they meet all of the following conditions:
(a) the student-athlete transfers into British Columbia from a country other
than Canada or the United States
(b) the student-athlete is registered in a member non-public school as an
"international student", and pays tuition to that school according to a
published International student policy and fee schedule
(c) the student-athlete has been accepted on the basis of academic
suitability
(d) the incoming student-athlete will be enrolled at the receiving school
for at least a consecutive five (5) month or one (1) semester period
(e) the school Administrator shall verify in writing that:
i) the acceptance of the student-athlete is based solely on
academic criteria, and
ii) that a student-athlete’s possible participation in extra-curricular
athletics was not a factor in acceptance to the school, and46 www.bcschoolsports.ca 2011-12
Competitive rules & regulations
iii) the student-athlete is not receiving a scholarship, bursary or
financial award resulting from or relating to athlete participation,
and
iv) this verification will be submitted to the BCSS office prior to any
participation in restricted competition in BCSS-approved sports
(f) the school or the Board of the school has registered as the studentathlete's custodian (guardian) for the duration of the student-athlete's
stay at the school, and provides a copy of the Letter of Custodianship
(g) the student-athlete is placed in a school dormitory or with a family
who has been resident in the community for a period of at least six
(6) months prior to the homestay placement. (“Online Transfer Form” must
be completed online with the registration of the student-athlete on the online StudentAthlete Registration Form. In addition, all requested documents as noted above must be
forwarded to the BCSS office within seven (7) school days of the online registration)
d12.3.13 Ward of the Province: the student-athlete who transfers is a ward of the
province and whose move has been arranged by the province:
(a) the receiving school must submit a letter from the School
Administrator confirming that the placement has been arranged by the
ministry having jurisdiction or the government agency responsible for
the student-athlete. This letter will include the time of the move, the
location of the new residence, and that participation in school sports
was not a factor in the placement
(b) the receiving school must also confirm that the residence of the family
or the residence in which the student-athlete has been placed is within
the catchment area boundaries of the school.
d12.3.14 Student-athlete Transfers During the Month of September as a
result of the School District Transfer process:
(a) per Section 74.1 of The School Act, a Board must have a protocol in
place to allow student movement among schools and, therefore,
(b) per School District Policy, the deadline for application for student
transfer is in the spring, prior to the new school year, yet the Board
reserves the right to make a final decision after space and facility
availability are known in the month of September.
Therefore, since the school district controls the date of transfer, a
student-athlete should not be prejudiced in participating in athletics.
The student-athlete may participate in athletics in their third (3r(d)
year of eligibility in their new school, provided the Board gives final
approval for attendance prior to September 30th each year.
d12.4 Sport Specific Education Program: a sport specific education program combines
education with specific sport instruction/education for curriculum credit. The sport
specific education program allows for sport specific training, instruction and/or
competition; provides sport skills training in a targeted sport; provides other training/
education such as but not limited to weight training, sport nutrition, or mental
training to support the targeted sport. A student-athlete is considered to be enrolled
in a sport specific education program if:
d12.4.1 a student-athlete is enrolled in a catchment/home school for a sport
specific education program and the student-athlete receives five (5) or
more credits for educational courses of specific sports instruction
d12.4.2 a student-athlete is enrolled in a non-catchment school for a sportspecific education program and the student-athlete receives four (4) or
more credits for an educational course of specific sports instruction.
Student-athlete Transfers for SSEP:
(a) any student-athlete in their first (1st), second (2nd), third
(3rd), fourth (4th), or fifth (5th) year of eligibility transferring
into a sport-specific education program is ineligible to participate in
BCSS competition in the sport in which they receive specific sports
instruction2011-12 www.bcschoolsports.ca 47
Competitive rules & regulations
(b) any student-athlete transferring from a sport specific
education program back to their home school is ineligible to
compete in that specialized sport for the next BCSS season of play for
that sport from the date the transfer is physically
completed, but is immediately eligible for all other BCSS
competition for which they meet eligibility requirements.
Section D13: ELIgIBILITY APPLICATIONS
d13.1 Where a student-athlete is ineligible for competition pursuant to the Competitive Rules
and Regulations, the member school may apply for an exemption for the studentathlete in accordance with this section.
d13.2 An application under D13.1 shall be submitted to the ‘Eligibility Officer’ through the
BCSS office.
d13.3 The application shall contain:
(a) a completed and signed BCSS Eligibility Application Form;
(b) if the ineligibility arises from a school transfer, a letter from the Administrator of
the student-athlete’s former school confirming that the school is aware of the
exemption application and indicating whether the school supports or objects to an
exemption, together with its reasons;
(c) a copy of the student-athlete’s personal record card (public schools), or report
cards and transcripts (non-public schools);
(d) a list of the student-athlete's current courses;
(e) a copy of a primary source document showing the student-athlete’s date of birth
(e.g., birth certificate, passport, baptismal certificate, permanent resident card,
provincial ID car(d);
(f) a letter from the student-athlete’s parent or legal guardian supporting the application;
(g) copies of relevant medical documentation where the application is based on
medical grounds; and,
h) any other information or material the school wants the Eligibility Officer to
consider.
d13.4 The applicant school shall submit a $50.00 application fee with each application.
d13.5 The Eligibility Officer may request further information from the applicant school.
d13.6 There is no right to a teleconference or oral hearing before the Eligibility Officer.
d13.7 The Eligibility Officer may allow or deny the application, having regard to the
following principles:
(a) the primary purpose of the eligibility criteria in the Competitive Rules and
Regulations is to promote fair and equitable competition for all student-athletes
participating in BCSS competition;
(b) in the case of school transfers, although there are many bona fide reasons why
a student-athlete might change schools, an exemption should almost invariably
not be granted in respect of a transfer for the purpose of playing a sport still
offered by the student-athlete’s former school; and,
(c) an exemption shall be granted where the Eligibility Officer is satisfied that:
i) the student-athlete has transferred schools for a bona fide academic reason;
ii) the student-athlete has transferred schools because of financial hardship;
or,
iii) in any other case, the exemption would not unduly prejudice the BCSS goal
of fair and equitable competition.
d13.8 The Eligibility Officer shall issue a written ruling to the applicant school (to the
attention of the Administrator and the Athletic Director) either allowing or denying
the application, and containing a brief summary of the reasons for the decision.48 www.bcschoolsports.ca 2011-12
Competitive rules & regulations
d13.9 Subject to D13.21, if the Eligibility Officer allows the application, the student-athlete
becomes eligible for competition on the date the decision is issued, provided,
however, that the student-athlete’s eligibility remains otherwise subject to the
Competitive Rules and Regulations.
d13.10 It is the responsibility of the applicant school to notify the student-athlete and the
student-athlete’s parent(s) or legal guardian(s) of the decision of the Eligibility
Officer and of any requests or other communications from the Eligibility Officer.
d13.11 A member school may appeal a decision under D13.8 denying an exemption
application, in accordance with this section.
d13.12 An appeal under D13.11 shall be in writing and shall be submitted to the BCSS
head office for forwarding to the Eligibility Appeals Committee (the “EAC”) at least
eight (Cool school days before the next scheduled meeting of the EAC.
d13.13 The appeal shall contain:
(a) a completed and signed BCSS Eligibility Application;
(b) copies of all of the materials submitted to the Eligibility Officer;
(c) a cheque for $200.00 which is refundable if the appeal is allowed; and,
(d) any other information or material that the school wants the EAC to consider.
d13.14 The EAC may request further information from the applicant school.
d13.15 There is no right to a teleconference or oral hearing before the EAC.
d13.16 The EAC may allow or dismiss the appeal, having regard to the principles set out in
D13.7.
d13.17 The EAC may substitute its views for that of the Eligibility Officer.
d13.18 The EAC shall issue a written ruling to the applicant school (to the attention of the
administrator and the Athletic Director) either allowing or dismissing the appeal, and
containing a brief summary of the reasons for the decision.
d13.19 Subject to D13.21, if the EAC allows the appeal, the student-athlete becomes eligible
for competition on the date the decision is issued, provided, however, that the studentathlete’s eligibility remains otherwise subject to the Competitive Rules and Regulations.
d13.20 It is the responsibility of the applicant school to notify the student-athlete and the
student-athlete’s parent(s) or legal guardian(s) of the decision of the EAC and of
any requests or other communications from the EAC.
d13.21 Where an exemption is granted by the Eligibility Officer or by the EAC on the basis
of a transfer for an academic reason, the exemption shall cease to have effect if the
student-athlete withdraws from the program, group of courses or other academic
offering underlying the exemption, unless and until the Eligibility Officer, on written
application by the school, confirms the exemption.
d13.22 The decisions of the EAC under D13.18 and the Eligibility Officer under D13.8 are final
and binding and shall not be questioned or reviewed in any court or tribunal, and no
order shall be made or process entered or proceeding taken in any court or tribunal
whether by way of injunction, declaration, prohibition or otherwise to question, review,
prohibit or restrain the proceedings.
It is the intention of BCSS and its members that, to the extent permitted by law, all
matters concerning its Competitive Rules and Regulations be private matters not
subject to any form of adjudication by any court or tribunal.
The Eligibility Appeals Committee will meet for the school year in 2011-2012 as noted below:
meeting 1 september 17, 2011 deadline for submission september 9, 2011
meeting 2 october 1, 2011 deadline for submission september 23, 2011
meeting 3 december 3, 2011 deadline for submission november 25, 2011
meeting 4 January 21, 2012 deadline for submission January 13, 2012
meeting 5 march 31, 2012 deadline for submission march 23, 2012
meeting 6 June 2, 2012 deadline for submission may 25, 2012


Last edited by baller1000 on Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sim



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:09 pm

And I don't have a problem with recruiting. It's about the kids first. They should be entitled to play wherever they like. What I do have a problem with is coaches who preach an open market system when it comes to recruiting but then preach a closed market system when it comes to LM berth allocation.
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asiseeit



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PostSubject: St George coach of the year???????   Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:26 pm

http://www.vancourier.com/sports/Killarney+basketball+Tanabe+coach+year+really/6260132/story.html
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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:45 pm

It is true that all any public or private school can offer is a free education, but there is a lot of glamour attached to getting a "scholarship" and only the privates can potentially offer that.
If Saints are the ones making the offer, one also has to recognize the opportunity to go to a fantastic school and all the connections that naturally occur. A free night at the Motel 6 is not the same as one at the Pan Pacific. Saint Georges has far more to offer than any public school in many regards.
I am against recruiting but definitely for kids having the right to choose and to educate themselves as to their opportunities. Just don't chase them and don't offer scholarships.
Baller made some excellent points and I agree totally with him.
It has been clear to many for some time who the beneficiaries would be if the Independents are restricted. It would likely be Kitsilano in Vancouver and Palmer in Richmond, maybe Burnaby South in Burnaby. If kids didn't see the opportunity to get to the BC's at VC or Saints, then where do you think a kid who wanted to succeed would choose? You better believe Ebe and Coutts have thought of that.
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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:53 am

Pooch can we please slow down a little with all of the personal attacks. I am sure by my responding to you it will simply launch another attack on me but I have to admit your latest comments are truly bizzare. Just so I understand, are you really suggesting that somehow this is an all an evil plan hatched by me to make it so kids will end up at my school because they won't want to go to an independemt school because only one of them might get to go to the BC's?
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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:33 am

No I do not think this was the motive behind all that is going on..but I do agree with Sim that certain public schools are likely to be the beneficiaries. I am sure the thought has crossed your mind as to where kids who love basketball might choose to go should the independents be frozen out.
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:35 am

Pooch wrote:
It is true that all any public or private school can offer is a free education, but there is a lot of glamour attached to getting a "scholarship" and only the privates can potentially offer that.

I just want to make a small correction regarding the comment above and the allegation by many on this board about "scholarships" being offered by the IND schools.

Firstly, it is incorrect to say that the IND can offer a free education in the form of an athletic scholarship. That is specifically prohibited by BC School Sports Rules (see below).

Secondly, it has never been proven that that has occurred.

It is true that the IND schools can reduce tuition BASED ON FINANCIAL NEED and that need has to be proven (privately for obvious reasons) and decided by a board that has nothing to do with athletics. Particularly, many faith based schools, have policies about not turning away students based on a particular families ability to pay.

Now, I know there will probably be some that will say this is abused and to them I say "get a grip". Do they honestly believe that these schools coaches are conspiring with their administrators, their board of directors and their financial officers to hand out ILLEGAL scholarships of $6000 - $20,000 PER YEAR, PER ATHLETE......to win at basketball?! All the while risking their schools and teams being sanctioned by BC School Sports and more importantly, risk their schools honourable reputations required for the extensive fund raising that they do?!

The answer is NO. This policy of exclusion has nothing to do with transfers or recruiting. The rules are there and the penalties, costs and risks are significant.

Here are the BCSS rules:

B1.1 rules ProhiBitinG recruitinG
B1.1.1 No coach, administrator, athletic director or athletic coordinator shall,
either directly or indirectly, recruit a student-athlete.
B1.1.2 For the purposes of these Competitive Rules and Regulations, to recruit
is to encourage a student-athlete to attend a school other than the
school into which the student-athlete’s school feeds, for the purpose
of participating in interschool sport, whether or not the student-athlete
eventually attends the school.
B1.1.3 Without limiting the generality of B1.1.2, the following are deemed to be
instances of recruiting:

(a) permitting a student-athlete who is not enrolled at a given school or
whose current school does not feed into the school to participate in
(i) team practices, workouts, camps, competition, meetings, travel,
or other team activities, or
(ii) open gyms, workouts, or similar activities intended for studentathletes enrolled at the school, without the prior agreement of the
student-athlete’s current school.
(b) offering financial inducements or incentives of any kind, including,
without restricting the foregoing, inducements or incentives
concerning fees, accommodation or transportation, to a studentathlete who is not enrolled at a given school or whose current school
does not feed into the school, in connection with a transfer by the
student-athlete to the school for the purpose of participating in
interschool sport.
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:44 am

ebe wrote:
Pooch can we please slow down a little with all of the personal attacks. I am sure by my responding to you it will simply launch another attack on me but I have to admit your latest comments are truly bizzare. Just so I understand, are you really suggesting that somehow this is an all an evil plan hatched by me to make it so kids will end up at my school because they won't want to go to an independemt school because only one of them might get to go to the BC's?

"Evil plan hatched by me"?

Interesting choice of words.

Do you have any new motions for this years AGM to "resolve" this IND problem?
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sunnyok



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:25 pm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pooch wrote:
It is true that all any public or private school can offer is a free education, but there is a lot of glamour attached to getting a "scholarship" and only the privates can potentially offer that.



I just want to make a small correction regarding the comment above and the allegation by many on this board about "scholarships" being offered by the IND schools.

Firstly, it is incorrect to say that the IND can offer a free education in the form of an athletic scholarship. That is specifically prohibited by BC School Sports Rules (see below).

Secondly, it has never been proven that that has occurred.

It is true that the IND schools can reduce tuition BASED ON FINANCIAL NEED and that need has to be proven (privately for obvious reasons) and decided by a board that has nothing to do with athletics. Particularly, many faith based schools, have policies about not turning away students based on a particular families ability to pay.

Now, I know there will probably be some that will say this is abused and to them I say "get a grip". Do they honestly believe that these schools coaches are conspiring with their administrators, their board of directors and their financial officers to hand out ILLEGAL scholarships of $6000 - $20,000 PER YEAR, PER ATHLETE......to win at basketball?! All the while risking their schools and teams being sanctioned by BC School Sports and more importantly, risk their schools honourable reputations required for the extensive fund raising that they do?!

The answer is NO. This policy of exclusion has nothing to do with transfers or recruiting. The rules are there and the penalties, costs and risks are significant.

Here are the BCSS rules:

B1.1 rules ProhiBitinG recruitinG
B1.1.1 No coach, administrator, athletic director or athletic coordinator shall,
either directly or indirectly, recruit a student-athlete.
B1.1.2 For the purposes of these Competitive Rules and Regulations, to recruit
is to encourage a student-athlete to attend a school other than the
school into which the student-athlete’s school feeds, for the purpose
of participating in interschool sport, whether or not the student-athlete
eventually attends the school.
B1.1.3 Without limiting the generality of B1.1.2, the following are deemed to be
instances of recruiting:
(a) permitting a student-athlete who is not enrolled at a given school or
whose current school does not feed into the school to participate in
(i) team practices, workouts, camps, competition, meetings, travel,
or other team activities, or
(ii) open gyms, workouts, or similar activities intended for studentathletes enrolled at the school, without the prior agreement of the
student-athlete’s current school.
(b) offering financial inducements or incentives of any kind, including,
without restricting the foregoing, inducements or incentives
concerning fees, accommodation or transportation, to a studentathlete who is not enrolled at a given school or whose current school
does not feed into the school, in connection with a transfer by the
student-athlete to the school for the purpose of participating in
interschool sport.


Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:36 pm

sunnyok wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pooch wrote:

Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.

My understanding is that his family moved to Vancouver.
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:53 pm

Just noticed that the motions for this years AGM have been posted under another thread on this forum. http://hooplife.canadian-forum.com/t1662-bchsbba-march-17-agm-motions

So there it is folks. The plan as put forward by Mr.Eberhart and Mr. Coutts to further isolate the IND (in a separate ZONE from their current league) which includes a preposterous motion to take away a schools legal right to any form of redress if they are being treated unfairly.

An evil plan? Hatched by Mr. Eberhart?

I think we are seeing the true nature of the situation with these new proposals.

There are rules to deal with all the alleged transgressions. Be they transfers, recruiting or scholarships. But these folks don't want to use the rules. They want to write their own, including rewriting the rule of law when it comes to having some form of recourse.

Is it any wonder Saints got legal advice when dealing with people that think and behave like that?


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basketballfan1



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:06 pm

SECTION 9.02 (d) currently reads…
The Berthing Committee may vary the berthing slightly as determined by the formula in Section 9.03 if the committee determines by a motion passed by at least 75% of those present that it would be in the best interests of the Association to do so.

The following procedure will be used to deal with 9.02 (d):
- Zones will make written application to the Chair of the Berthing Committee no later than eight days prior to the Berthing Meeting.
- This application would include relevant scores and other information indicating why a zone should be considered for a chance at altering the berthing formula.
- Decisions on whether to invoke 9.02 (d) will be made at the Berthing Meeting. Zones failing to make advanced application will not be considered.
- The Executive Committee would make decisions on how a change in the berthing allocation would be accommodated (eg. Playoff game) once any request had been accepted

Rationale:
1. This section of our rules was added several years ago with much consultation from our membership and was designed to address a problem when one zone had the top two teams in BC. Unfortunately this clause is now being used for other agendas and it has opened the door for the potential to allow any teams into both zone and provincial tournaments.


Is it true that the rule is in place only if one zone had the top TWO teams in BC? If so, then how the hell did ST Georges be allowed to get in?

Can someone please provide an explanation (Pooch, Baller1000, Mark Scott)?
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:25 pm

basketballfan1 wrote:
SECTION 9.02 (d) currently reads…
The Berthing Committee may vary the berthing slightly as determined by the formula in Section 9.03 if the committee determines by a motion passed by at least 75% of those present that it would be in the best interests of the Association to do so.

The following procedure will be used to deal with 9.02 (d):
- Zones will make written application to the Chair of the Berthing Committee no later than eight days prior to the Berthing Meeting.
- This application would include relevant scores and other information indicating why a zone should be considered for a chance at altering the berthing formula.
- Decisions on whether to invoke 9.02 (d) will be made at the Berthing Meeting. Zones failing to make advanced application will not be considered.
- The Executive Committee would make decisions on how a change in the berthing allocation would be accommodated (eg. Playoff game) once any request had been accepted

Rationale:
1. This section of our rules was added several years ago with much consultation from our membership and was designed to address a problem when one zone had the top two teams in BC. Unfortunately this clause is now being used for other agendas and it has opened the door for the potential to allow any teams into both zone and provincial tournaments.


Is it true that the rule is in place only if one zone had the top TWO teams in BC? If so, then how the hell did ST Georges be allowed to get in?

Can someone please provide an explanation (Pooch, Baller1000, Mark Scott)?

Isn't the better question: If the procedure was supposed to be used when the top two teams in the province are in one zone, why did it not say that? Doesn't that seem a bit harsh anyway - top two in BC? Would any two public schools like to be coerced in to such a two-team league (and now ZONE)? Ask the question of yourself: would you want your son to be in such a two-team league?

Public school coaches and administrators may have valid reasons why they refuse to let the two independent school play in the Vancouver league, but I have not heard them. All I have heard is that it has always been done that way and we decided we do not want to play them.








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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:23 pm

basketballfan1 wrote:
SECTION 9.02 (d) currently reads…
The Berthing Committee may vary the berthing slightly as determined by the formula in Section 9.03 if the committee determines by a motion passed by at least 75% of those present that it would be in the best interests of the Association to do so.

The following procedure will be used to deal with 9.02 (d):
- Zones will make written application to the Chair of the Berthing Committee no later than eight days prior to the Berthing Meeting.
- This application would include relevant scores and other information indicating why a zone should be considered for a chance at altering the berthing formula.
- Decisions on whether to invoke 9.02 (d) will be made at the Berthing Meeting. Zones failing to make advanced application will not be considered.
- The Executive Committee would make decisions on how a change in the berthing allocation would be accommodated (eg. Playoff game) once any request had been accepted

Rationale:
1. This section of our rules was added several years ago with much consultation from our membership and was designed to address a problem when one zone had the top two teams in BC. Unfortunately this clause is now being used for other agendas and it has opened the door for the potential to allow any teams into both zone and provincial tournaments.


Is it true that the rule is in place only if one zone had the top TWO teams in BC? If so, then how the hell did ST Georges be allowed to get in?

Can someone please provide an explanation (Pooch, Baller1000, Mark Scott)?


The rationale suggested by Ebe is his interpretation and this is not the clause, as I understand it, that Saints used. Saints relied on clause 9.01 which concerns two team leagues, not zones.

Motion Passed at 2005 Lower Mainland Organizational Meeting.

Extra-ordinary application for extra zone playoff berth.

Allows the possibility of two top teams advancing to LMZ tournament if they meet the following criteria:
League allocated only 1 berth for whatever reason,
They are the 2nd place team in that league.
They have been ranked #3 in the zone or can make a serious argument that they should be considered #3 in the zone.



This is what applied to Saints. They sought to have it applied, were rejected by the LMZ who said they had not established they were the top 3 team in the LMZ (Duh!) The LM decision was ultimately overturned by the BCHSBBA Board of Governers but left it to LM to determine how Saints would play for the berth. LM made several ridiculous proposals which included the exclusion of not only Saints but VC from the LM tournament. That was rejected after legal advice and BCHSBBA told LM that Saints should be in. LM walked away from hosting tournament and IND took over hosting so that tournament could take place.

The proposal to remove 9.02 which has to do with varying the berthing formula for a ZONE getting to the BC's, not a LEAGUE trying to get into the LM Zone tournament has to be read in context with the other motions that are proposed. In particular the one that would put the IND in their own zone.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if passed, the IND would no longer participate in the LM Zone tournament vying for the 5 berths there. They would be truly isolated and stuck in their own zone. However, as a zone, they would have one berth to the BC's. Removing clause 9.02, which contrary to Ebe's suggestion has somehow been abused in the recent debacle (when in fact it was 9.01 that applied) would take away any possibility that two IND teams could ever advance to the BC's, even it they were the top 2 in the province.

Is anyone getting sick of all these machinations yet? Is it clear what Mssrs. Ebe and Coutts are trying to achieve?


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basketballfan1



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:54 pm

baller1000 wrote:
basketballfan1 wrote:
SECTION 9.02 (d) currently reads…
The Berthing Committee may vary the berthing slightly as determined by the formula in Section 9.03 if the committee determines by a motion passed by at least 75% of those present that it would be in the best interests of the Association to do so.

The following procedure will be used to deal with 9.02 (d):
- Zones will make written application to the Chair of the Berthing Committee no later than eight days prior to the Berthing Meeting.
- This application would include relevant scores and other information indicating why a zone should be considered for a chance at altering the berthing formula.
- Decisions on whether to invoke 9.02 (d) will be made at the Berthing Meeting. Zones failing to make advanced application will not be considered.
- The Executive Committee would make decisions on how a change in the berthing allocation would be accommodated (eg. Playoff game) once any request had been accepted

Rationale:
1. This section of our rules was added several years ago with much consultation from our membership and was designed to address a problem when one zone had the top two teams in BC. Unfortunately this clause is now being used for other agendas and it has opened the door for the potential to allow any teams into both zone and provincial tournaments.


Is it true that the rule is in place only if one zone had the top TWO teams in BC? If so, then how the hell did ST Georges be allowed to get in?

Can someone please provide an explanation (Pooch, Baller1000, Mark Scott)?


The rationale suggested by Ebe is his interpretation and this is not the clause, as I understand it, that Saints used. Saints relied on clause 9.01 which concerns two team leagues, not zones.

Motion Passed at 2005 Lower Mainland Organizational Meeting.

Extra-ordinary application for extra zone playoff berth.

Allows the possibility of two top teams advancing to LMZ tournament if they meet the following criteria:
League allocated only 1 berth for whatever reason,
They are the 2nd place team in that league.
They have been ranked #3 in the zone or can make a serious argument that they should be considered #3 in the zone.



This is what applied to Saints. They sought to have it applied, were rejected by the LMZ who said they had not established they were the top 3 team in the LMZ (Duh!) The LM decision was ultimately overturned by the BCHSBBA Board of Governers but left it to LM to determine how Saints would play for the berth. LM made several ridiculous proposals which included the exclusion of not only Saints but VC from the LM tournament. That was rejected after legal advice and BCHSBBA told LM that Saints should be in. LM walked away from hosting tournament and IND took over hosting so that tournament could take place.

The proposal to remove 9.02 which has to do with varying the berthing formula for a ZONE getting to the BC's, not a LEAGUE trying to get into the LM Zone tournament has to be read in context with the other motions that are proposed. In particular the one that would put the IND in their own zone.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if passed, the IND would no longer participate in the LM Zone tournament vying for the 5 berths there. They would be truly isolated and stuck in their own zone. However, as a zone, they would have one berth to the BC's. Removing clause 9.02, which contrary to Ebe's suggestion has somehow been abused in the recent debacle (when in fact it was 9.01 that applied) would take away any possibility that two IND teams could ever advance to the BC's, even it they were the top 2 in the province.

Is anyone getting sick of all these machinations yet? Is it clear what Mssrs. Ebe and Coutts are trying to achieve?




Thanks for the response Baller1000 and Mark Scott.

I find it really hard being an outsider trying to understand the issues at hand when there is so much misleading/incorrect info being provided by both sides. I say both sides because I do not know what it actually true. If it is true that it does not state top TWO teams then what is the issue with Saints applying to get in? If they are doing it as per the rules whats the issue?

I will say I am not a fan of the Independents and think they should have their own zone tourney but that is not currently in place and Saints used a clause that is currently in place.
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:21 pm

Here it is again.

Extra-ordinary application for extra zone playoff berth.

Allows the possibility of two top teams advancing to LMZ tournament if they meet the following criteria:
League allocated only 1 berth for whatever reason,
They are the 2nd place team in that league.
They have been ranked #3 in the zone or can make a serious argument that they should be considered #3 in the zone.

This was about Saints (in a two team league that is part of LM zone) being allowed to advance to the LM tourney BECAUSE "They have been ranked #3 in the zone or can make a serious argument that they should be considered #3 in the zone."

As to your comment that the IND should have their own zone tourney, keep in mind that they are only two teams. It makes as much sense as a two team league.

Ebe's motion to stick them in their own zone, as I see it, would guarantee that we never see Saints and VC in another LM tourney or in another BC's.

The lawyers WILL BE busy with that one!
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Fox2030



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:38 pm

sunnyok wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.


I cut out the first part of the post as it was quite long. To answer your question; the player originally from Knox actually played for all ball academy that is run by St. Georges. His dad was offered a job by the all ball/ st georges coaches, and help with moving expenses so the family could move to the LM. I was told that Guy knows how to skirt the BC school sports rules and it would not be a problem. They also offered another all ball player a similar deal.
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basketballfan1



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:43 pm


"As to your comment that the IND should have their own zone tourney, keep in mind that they are only two teams. It makes as much sense as a two team league."

Whether it makes sense or not isn't really a legal argument. The LM coaches didn't think it made sense to allow Saints in to the LM tourney.

If these decisions are made by majority vote and the motion is passed then the IND schools will have to abide by these rules. If there are provisions to stop it from happening then i'm sure the lawyers will have something to argue.

I think this has gone on too long and there has to be a resolution. We can't have another situation like this year where the tourney is postponed.
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:17 am

Fox2030 wrote:
sunnyok wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.


I cut out the first part of the post as it was quite long. To answer your question; the player originally from Knox actually played for all ball academy that is run by St. Georges. His dad was offered a job by the all ball/ st georges coaches, and help with moving expenses so the family could move to the LM. I was told that Guy knows how to skirt the BC school sports rules and it would not be a problem. They also offered another all ball player a similar deal.

I love a good rumour, especially a second hand one.....

Stuff about me dating Kim Kardashian - I have no idea where that came from and all these other rumors. I don't think I'm that type.
Jeremy Lin

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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:22 am

Fox2030 wrote:
sunnyok wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.


I cut out the first part of the post as it was quite long. To answer your question; the player originally from Knox actually played for all ball academy that is run by St. Georges. His dad was offered a job by the all ball/ st georges coaches, and help with moving expenses so the family could move to the LM. I was told that Guy knows how to skirt the BC school sports rules and it would not be a problem. They also offered another all ball player a similar deal.

This may make sense if the intent was for St. Georges to to hire a coach. Companies pay for expenses all the time. But to suggest that they payed a family to move so their son can play basketball is a stretch.

Given that private schools recieve substantial public funding, if Joe Average taxpayer were to learn the their tax dollars were being used to recruit, move and pay tuition fees for basketball players I'm sure there would be hell to pay given the cutbacks in public schools.

Even offering scholarships or "funding assistance" to a local player would be a slippery slope for the private schools. I'm surprised given the allegations of that this is the exact thing that is happening it has never come up as a non-basketball public issue before.



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M-5



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:34 am

Fox2030 wrote:
sunnyok wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.


I cut out the first part of the post as it was quite long. To answer your question; the player originally from Knox actually played for all ball academy that is run by St. Georges. His dad was offered a job by the all ball/ st georges coaches, and help with moving expenses so the family could move to the LM. I was told that Guy knows how to skirt the BC school sports rules and it would not be a problem. They also offered another all ball player a similar deal.


That is ridiculous. I highly doubt that happened. Further, last I checked, switching schools in grade 10 is not a violation of BC School Sports Rules so yea, it wouldn't be a problem.
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sunnyok



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PostSubject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action   Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:16 pm

LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action

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baller1000



Posts: 71
Join date: 2010-03-11

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 1:44 am

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ebe wrote:
Pooch can we please slow down a little with all of the personal attacks. I am sure by my responding to you it will simply launch another attack on me but I have to admit your latest comments are truly bizzare. Just so I understand, are you really suggesting that somehow this is an all an evil plan hatched by me to make it so kids will end up at my school because they won't want to go to an independemt school because only one of them might get to go to the BC's?


"Evil plan hatched by me"?

Interesting choice of words.

Do you have any new motions for this years AGM to "resolve" this IND problem?



sunnyok



Posts: 7
Join date: 2011-01-16

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 10:25 am

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Pooch wrote:
It is true that all any public or private school can offer is a free education, but there is a lot of glamour attached to getting a "scholarship" and only the privates can potentially offer that.



I just want to make a small correction regarding the comment above and the allegation by many on this board about "scholarships" being offered by the IND schools.

Firstly, it is incorrect to say that the IND can offer a free education in the form of an athletic scholarship. That is specifically prohibited by BC School Sports Rules (see below).

Secondly, it has never been proven that that has occurred.

It is true that the IND schools can reduce tuition BASED ON FINANCIAL NEED and that need has to be proven (privately for obvious reasons) and decided by a board that has nothing to do with athletics. Particularly, many faith based schools, have policies about not turning away students based on a particular families ability to pay.

Now, I know there will probably be some that will say this is abused and to them I say "get a grip". Do they honestly believe that these schools coaches are conspiring with their administrators, their board of directors and their financial officers to hand out ILLEGAL scholarships of $6000 - $20,000 PER YEAR, PER ATHLETE......to win at basketball?! All the while risking their schools and teams being sanctioned by BC School Sports and more importantly, risk their schools honourable reputations required for the extensive fund raising that they do?!

The answer is NO. This policy of exclusion has nothing to do with transfers or recruiting. The rules are there and the penalties, costs and risks are significant.

Here are the BCSS rules:

B1.1 rules ProhiBitinG recruitinG
B1.1.1 No coach, administrator, athletic director or athletic coordinator shall,
either directly or indirectly, recruit a student-athlete.
B1.1.2 For the purposes of these Competitive Rules and Regulations, to recruit
is to encourage a student-athlete to attend a school other than the
school into which the student-athlete’s school feeds, for the purpose
of participating in interschool sport, whether or not the student-athlete
eventually attends the school.
B1.1.3 Without limiting the generality of B1.1.2, the following are deemed to be
instances of recruiting:
(a) permitting a student-athlete who is not enrolled at a given school or
whose current school does not feed into the school to participate in
(i) team practices, workouts, camps, competition, meetings, travel,
or other team activities, or
(ii) open gyms, workouts, or similar activities intended for studentathletes enrolled at the school, without the prior agreement of the
student-athlete’s current school.
(b) offering financial inducements or incentives of any kind, including,
without restricting the foregoing, inducements or incentives
concerning fees, accommodation or transportation, to a studentathlete who is not enrolled at a given school or whose current school
does not feed into the school, in connection with a transfer by the
student-athlete to the school for the purpose of participating in
interschool sport.


Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.



baller1000



Posts: 71
Join date: 2010-03-11

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 11:36 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sunnyok wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pooch wrote:

Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.


My understanding is that his family moved to Vancouver.



baller1000



Posts: 71
Join date: 2010-03-11

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 11:53 am

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Just noticed that the motions for this years AGM have been posted under another thread on this forum. http://hooplife.canadian-forum.com/t1662-bchsbba-march-17-agm-motions

So there it is folks. The plan as put forward by Mr.Eberhart and Mr. Coutts to further isolate the IND (in a separate ZONE from their current league) which includes a preposterous motion to take away a schools legal right to any form of redress if they are being treated unfairly.

An evil plan? Hatched by Mr. Eberhart?

I think we are seeing the true nature of the situation with these new proposals.

There are rules to deal with all the alleged transgressions. Be they transfers, recruiting or scholarships. But these folks don't want to use the rules. They want to write their own, including rewriting the rule of law when it comes to having some form of recourse.

Is it any wonder Saints got legal advice when dealing with people that think and behave like that?






basketballfan1



Posts: 42
Join date: 2011-03-03

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 12:06 pm

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SECTION 9.02 (d) currently reads…
The Berthing Committee may vary the berthing slightly as determined by the formula in Section 9.03 if the committee determines by a motion passed by at least 75% of those present that it would be in the best interests of the Association to do so.

The following procedure will be used to deal with 9.02 (d):
- Zones will make written application to the Chair of the Berthing Committee no later than eight days prior to the Berthing Meeting.
- This application would include relevant scores and other information indicating why a zone should be considered for a chance at altering the berthing formula.
- Decisions on whether to invoke 9.02 (d) will be made at the Berthing Meeting. Zones failing to make advanced application will not be considered.
- The Executive Committee would make decisions on how a change in the berthing allocation would be accommodated (eg. Playoff game) once any request had been accepted

Rationale:
1. This section of our rules was added several years ago with much consultation from our membership and was designed to address a problem when one zone had the top two teams in BC. Unfortunately this clause is now being used for other agendas and it has opened the door for the potential to allow any teams into both zone and provincial tournaments.

Is it true that the rule is in place only if one zone had the top TWO teams in BC? If so, then how the hell did ST Georges be allowed to get in?

Can someone please provide an explanation (Pooch, Baller1000, Mark Scott)?



Mark Scott



Posts: 203
Join date: 2011-01-05

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 12:25 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

basketballfan1 wrote:
SECTION 9.02 (d) currently reads…
The Berthing Committee may vary the berthing slightly as determined by the formula in Section 9.03 if the committee determines by a motion passed by at least 75% of those present that it would be in the best interests of the Association to do so.

The following procedure will be used to deal with 9.02 (d):
- Zones will make written application to the Chair of the Berthing Committee no later than eight days prior to the Berthing Meeting.
- This application would include relevant scores and other information indicating why a zone should be considered for a chance at altering the berthing formula.
- Decisions on whether to invoke 9.02 (d) will be made at the Berthing Meeting. Zones failing to make advanced application will not be considered.
- The Executive Committee would make decisions on how a change in the berthing allocation would be accommodated (eg. Playoff game) once any request had been accepted

Rationale:
1. This section of our rules was added several years ago with much consultation from our membership and was designed to address a problem when one zone had the top two teams in BC. Unfortunately this clause is now being used for other agendas and it has opened the door for the potential to allow any teams into both zone and provincial tournaments.

Is it true that the rule is in place only if one zone had the top TWO teams in BC? If so, then how the hell did ST Georges be allowed to get in?

Can someone please provide an explanation (Pooch, Baller1000, Mark Scott)?


Isn't the better question: If the procedure was supposed to be used when the top two teams in the province are in one zone, why did it not say that? Doesn't that seem a bit harsh anyway - top two in BC? Would any two public schools like to be coerced in to such a two-team league (and now ZONE)? Ask the question of yourself: would you want your son to be in such a two-team league?

Public school coaches and administrators may have valid reasons why they refuse to let the two independent school play in the Vancouver league, but I have not heard them. All I have heard is that it has always been done that way and we decided we do not want to play them.












baller1000



Posts: 71
Join date: 2010-03-11

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 1:23 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

basketballfan1 wrote:
SECTION 9.02 (d) currently reads…
The Berthing Committee may vary the berthing slightly as determined by the formula in Section 9.03 if the committee determines by a motion passed by at least 75% of those present that it would be in the best interests of the Association to do so.

The following procedure will be used to deal with 9.02 (d):
- Zones will make written application to the Chair of the Berthing Committee no later than eight days prior to the Berthing Meeting.
- This application would include relevant scores and other information indicating why a zone should be considered for a chance at altering the berthing formula.
- Decisions on whether to invoke 9.02 (d) will be made at the Berthing Meeting. Zones failing to make advanced application will not be considered.
- The Executive Committee would make decisions on how a change in the berthing allocation would be accommodated (eg. Playoff game) once any request had been accepted

Rationale:
1. This section of our rules was added several years ago with much consultation from our membership and was designed to address a problem when one zone had the top two teams in BC. Unfortunately this clause is now being used for other agendas and it has opened the door for the potential to allow any teams into both zone and provincial tournaments.

Is it true that the rule is in place only if one zone had the top TWO teams in BC? If so, then how the hell did ST Georges be allowed to get in?

Can someone please provide an explanation (Pooch, Baller1000, Mark Scott)?



The rationale suggested by Ebe is his interpretation and this is not the clause, as I understand it, that Saints used. Saints relied on clause 9.01 which concerns two team leagues, not zones.

Motion Passed at 2005 Lower Mainland Organizational Meeting.

Extra-ordinary application for extra zone playoff berth.

Allows the possibility of two top teams advancing to LMZ tournament if they meet the following criteria:
League allocated only 1 berth for whatever reason,
They are the 2nd place team in that league.
They have been ranked #3 in the zone or can make a serious argument that they should be considered #3 in the zone.



This is what applied to Saints. They sought to have it applied, were rejected by the LMZ who said they had not established they were the top 3 team in the LMZ (Duh!) The LM decision was ultimately overturned by the BCHSBBA Board of Governers but left it to LM to determine how Saints would play for the berth. LM made several ridiculous proposals which included the exclusion of not only Saints but VC from the LM tournament. That was rejected after legal advice and BCHSBBA told LM that Saints should be in. LM walked away from hosting tournament and IND took over hosting so that tournament could take place.

The proposal to remove 9.02 which has to do with varying the berthing formula for a ZONE getting to the BC's, not a LEAGUE trying to get into the LM Zone tournament has to be read in context with the other motions that are proposed. In particular the one that would put the IND in their own zone.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if passed, the IND would no longer participate in the LM Zone tournament vying for the 5 berths there. They would be truly isolated and stuck in their own zone. However, as a zone, they would have one berth to the BC's. Removing clause 9.02, which contrary to Ebe's suggestion has somehow been abused in the recent debacle (when in fact it was 9.01 that applied) would take away any possibility that two IND teams could ever advance to the BC's, even it they were the top 2 in the province.

Is anyone getting sick of all these machinations yet? Is it clear what Mssrs. Ebe and Coutts are trying to achieve?






basketballfan1



Posts: 42
Join date: 2011-03-03

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 1:54 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

baller1000 wrote:
basketballfan1 wrote:
SECTION 9.02 (d) currently reads…
The Berthing Committee may vary the berthing slightly as determined by the formula in Section 9.03 if the committee determines by a motion passed by at least 75% of those present that it would be in the best interests of the Association to do so.

The following procedure will be used to deal with 9.02 (d):
- Zones will make written application to the Chair of the Berthing Committee no later than eight days prior to the Berthing Meeting.
- This application would include relevant scores and other information indicating why a zone should be considered for a chance at altering the berthing formula.
- Decisions on whether to invoke 9.02 (d) will be made at the Berthing Meeting. Zones failing to make advanced application will not be considered.
- The Executive Committee would make decisions on how a change in the berthing allocation would be accommodated (eg. Playoff game) once any request had been accepted

Rationale:
1. This section of our rules was added several years ago with much consultation from our membership and was designed to address a problem when one zone had the top two teams in BC. Unfortunately this clause is now being used for other agendas and it has opened the door for the potential to allow any teams into both zone and provincial tournaments.

Is it true that the rule is in place only if one zone had the top TWO teams in BC? If so, then how the hell did ST Georges be allowed to get in?

Can someone please provide an explanation (Pooch, Baller1000, Mark Scott)?



The rationale suggested by Ebe is his interpretation and this is not the clause, as I understand it, that Saints used. Saints relied on clause 9.01 which concerns two team leagues, not zones.

Motion Passed at 2005 Lower Mainland Organizational Meeting.

Extra-ordinary application for extra zone playoff berth.

Allows the possibility of two top teams advancing to LMZ tournament if they meet the following criteria:
League allocated only 1 berth for whatever reason,
They are the 2nd place team in that league.
They have been ranked #3 in the zone or can make a serious argument that they should be considered #3 in the zone.



This is what applied to Saints. They sought to have it applied, were rejected by the LMZ who said they had not established they were the top 3 team in the LMZ (Duh!) The LM decision was ultimately overturned by the BCHSBBA Board of Governers but left it to LM to determine how Saints would play for the berth. LM made several ridiculous proposals which included the exclusion of not only Saints but VC from the LM tournament. That was rejected after legal advice and BCHSBBA told LM that Saints should be in. LM walked away from hosting tournament and IND took over hosting so that tournament could take place.

The proposal to remove 9.02 which has to do with varying the berthing formula for a ZONE getting to the BC's, not a LEAGUE trying to get into the LM Zone tournament has to be read in context with the other motions that are proposed. In particular the one that would put the IND in their own zone.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if passed, the IND would no longer participate in the LM Zone tournament vying for the 5 berths there. They would be truly isolated and stuck in their own zone. However, as a zone, they would have one berth to the BC's. Removing clause 9.02, which contrary to Ebe's suggestion has somehow been abused in the recent debacle (when in fact it was 9.01 that applied) would take away any possibility that two IND teams could ever advance to the BC's, even it they were the top 2 in the province.

Is anyone getting sick of all these machinations yet? Is it clear what Mssrs. Ebe and Coutts are trying to achieve?






Thanks for the response Baller1000 and Mark Scott.

I find it really hard being an outsider trying to understand the issues at hand when there is so much misleading/incorrect info being provided by both sides. I say both sides because I do not know what it actually true. If it is true that it does not state top TWO teams then what is the issue with Saints applying to get in? If they are doing it as per the rules whats the issue?

I will say I am not a fan of the Independents and think they should have their own zone tourney but that is not currently in place and Saints used a clause that is currently in place.



baller1000



Posts: 71
Join date: 2010-03-11

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 2:21 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here it is again.

Extra-ordinary application for extra zone playoff berth.

Allows the possibility of two top teams advancing to LMZ tournament if they meet the following criteria:
League allocated only 1 berth for whatever reason,
They are the 2nd place team in that league.
They have been ranked #3 in the zone or can make a serious argument that they should be considered #3 in the zone.

This was about Saints (in a two team league that is part of LM zone) being allowed to advance to the LM tourney BECAUSE "They have been ranked #3 in the zone or can make a serious argument that they should be considered #3 in the zone."

As to your comment that the IND should have their own zone tourney, keep in mind that they are only two teams. It makes as much sense as a two team league.

Ebe's motion to stick them in their own zone, as I see it, would guarantee that we never see Saints and VC in another LM tourney or in another BC's.

The lawyers WILL BE busy with that one!




Fox2030



Posts: 28
Join date: 2011-02-09

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 7:38 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

sunnyok wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.



I cut out the first part of the post as it was quite long. To answer your question; the player originally from Knox actually played for all ball academy that is run by St. Georges. His dad was offered a job by the all ball/ st georges coaches, and help with moving expenses so the family could move to the LM. I was told that Guy knows how to skirt the BC school sports rules and it would not be a problem. They also offered another all ball player a similar deal.



basketballfan1



Posts: 42
Join date: 2011-03-03

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 7:43 pm

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"As to your comment that the IND should have their own zone tourney, keep in mind that they are only two teams. It makes as much sense as a two team league."

Whether it makes sense or not isn't really a legal argument. The LM coaches didn't think it made sense to allow Saints in to the LM tourney.

If these decisions are made by majority vote and the motion is passed then the IND schools will have to abide by these rules. If there are provisions to stop it from happening then i'm sure the lawyers will have something to argue.

I think this has gone on too long and there has to be a resolution. We can't have another situation like this year where the tourney is postponed.



Mark Scott



Posts: 203
Join date: 2011-01-05

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 9:17 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fox2030 wrote:
sunnyok wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.



I cut out the first part of the post as it was quite long. To answer your question; the player originally from Knox actually played for all ball academy that is run by St. Georges. His dad was offered a job by the all ball/ st georges coaches, and help with moving expenses so the family could move to the LM. I was told that Guy knows how to skirt the BC school sports rules and it would not be a problem. They also offered another all ball player a similar deal.


I love a good rumour, especially a second hand one.....

Stuff about me dating Kim Kardashian - I have no idea where that came from and all these other rumors. I don't think I'm that type.
Jeremy Lin





ronh_pm



Posts: 114
Join date: 2011-01-15
Location: Pitt Meadows

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Yesterday at 10:22 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fox2030 wrote:
sunnyok wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.



I cut out the first part of the post as it was quite long. To answer your question; the player originally from Knox actually played for all ball academy that is run by St. Georges. His dad was offered a job by the all ball/ st georges coaches, and help with moving expenses so the family could move to the LM. I was told that Guy knows how to skirt the BC school sports rules and it would not be a problem. They also offered another all ball player a similar deal.


This may make sense if the intent was for St. Georges to to hire a coach. Companies pay for expenses all the time. But to suggest that they payed a family to move so their son can play basketball is a stretch.

Given that private schools recieve substantial public funding, if Joe Average taxpayer were to learn the their tax dollars were being used to recruit, move and pay tuition fees for basketball players I'm sure there would be hell to pay given the cutbacks in public schools.

Even offering scholarships or "funding assistance" to a local player would be a slippery slope for the private schools. I'm surprised given the allegations of that this is the exact thing that is happening it has never come up as a non-basketball public issue before.







M-5



Posts: 33
Join date: 2011-08-27

Subject: Re: LM "AAA" playoffs are on hold due to potential legal action Today at 8:34 am

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fox2030 wrote:
sunnyok wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Can anyone explain how a top grade 9 player from Dr. Knox(Kelowna) spends the summer playing club ball on the coast, then he ends up enrolling at St George for his Gr 10 year. That would be a huge financial commitment on any family.



I cut out the first part of the post as it was quite long. To answer your question; the player originally from Knox actually played for all ball academy that is run by St. Georges. His dad was offered a job by the all ball/ st georges coaches, and help with moving expenses so the family could move to the LM. I was told that Guy knows how to skirt the BC school sports rules and it would not be a problem. They also offered another all ball player a similar deal.



That is ridiculous. I highly doubt that happened. Further, last I checked, switching schools in grade 10 is not a violation of BC School Sports Rules so yea, it wouldn't be a problem.



Most ball players and coaches in the Kelowna area are very aware of why this player ended up at St Georges..... it was a hot conversation why he was not at KSS in Sept. Not a rumour, fact is , he was recruited while at AllBAll, just like the other player.
Its interesting to see the excuses come out from all the IND supporters. Just not willing to accept that the IND schools uses financial carrot to bring over players. no matter how you dress it up, its wrong.
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