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 Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys

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outspoken



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PostSubject: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:13 pm



When are the referees in our area going to clue into the dirty play of this team which is obviously promoted by the coach. Everyone in our area are aware of their cheap tactics for the last few years. It is time that the officials open their eyes.
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Underdog



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:34 pm

outspoken wrote:


When are the referees in our area going to clue into the dirty play of this team which is obviously promoted by the coach. Everyone in our area are aware of their cheap tactics for the last few years. It is time that the officials open their eyes.

If you are going to make a comment like this, then don't hide your name with it. That is cowardly!!!!!
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student



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:03 pm

what kind of crap are you talking about? did somebody get a little bump?
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blueangel



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:18 pm

DP is not dirty at all, they are very fundamental and i predict them to win in harbour station.
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i9h0w



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:39 pm

outspoken wrote:


When are the referees in our area going to clue into the dirty play of this team which is obviously promoted by the coach. Everyone in our area are aware of their cheap tactics for the last few years. It is time that the officials open their eyes.

What exactly do they do that is so dirty? I've watched numerous games, and I've seen nothing wrong with their play. You do realize it's high school basketball, not YMCA fun league for 5 year olds.
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We talkin bout practice



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:47 pm

I have a hard time listening to people complain about contact and a little pressure on and off the ball. This is the way the sport is going and the way I want it to go. Watch any ncaa game and you will see a similar style of play, and I think Harvey and D.P are trying to emulate that style. This style is common and expected at any higher more competative level of ball and we should embrace it at our single A level. Love to see some in your face defence and am tired of listening to us old folks scream at refs when someone breaks the six inch rule or get into another players personal bubble.
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casualobserver



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:38 pm

Okay, so I'm wading into a potentially explosive debate. Firstly, I agree that there's nothing wrong with good defensive pressure. I do not agree that that includes holding on cuts, excessive reaching in, and fouling to foul without playing the ball is part of the game.

Whether that's a style DP subscribes to is another issue, and I decide to stick away from that.

I will disagree that Harvey and DP are similar defensive teams. They have different coaching philosophies and attitudes towards play. Which style is better, is up for discussion.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:13 am


Before I say anything here I would like to preface all my comments by saying: I've watched DP play for a number of years now as a fan and opposing coach and I do not think they are dirty. Do they play tough, physical pressure defense you bet. Do they put their bodies on the line on every possession to in risk/reward plays definitely. Since they play at high speed, with hig phyiscality and athleticism are their collisions and players who occassionally go over edge for sure, but that is what playing at the edge gets you from time to time. I like the way DP plays and feel like they get some of the best coaching in the province regardless of classification.

The two underlying issues here are:

1) There is obvious inconsistency in how the game is called from region to region and zone to zone. This isn't just what official walks into the gym, but the amount of contact/ types of contact situations that garner foul calls, focus on footwork, and general tolerance for things (language, behaviours, even uniform issues).

2) Contact is not foul. There are rules about spacing, time and movement littered about the rule book but what it comes down to is the fact that basketball is a contact game and the only time something is a foul is if it clearly and immediately disadvantages the other player or gains an advantage. Which is fine except when you add the human component to issues in #1. Reaching is not a foul, bumping, initiating contact are not fouls until the official judges it to gain a clear and immediate advantage (or if they feel is is unportsmanlike/ leading to rough play). Judgement call!


The problem is how this is judged. Some officials feel any contact is inherently advantageous, other have a hard time judging so they call actions or types of contact regardless of the impact on the play and ignore others for the same reasons, our very best officials do a great job but if saddled with a younger or less compotent official need the game called consistently throughout. Combine that with the speed of the game, and the prevelance of atheletes over skilled kids we see now (more games less practice . . .) and you've got a recipe for some messy soup.

The only acutal complaint I would have really wouldn't change from season to season. Its not with a particular team. officials or area either. The only things I tend to get worked up about are:

- I spend an inordinate amount of practice time on stance and footwork that I know other teams are spending on tactics or conditioning. Please call the travels.

- Contact that disadvantage causes a foul, not just arm contact that disadvantages. A pg getting handchecked is probably less disadvantaged then a forward. cutter or post body blocked off their route or out of the key. Yet hand/arm contact the impedes gets called much more often then body contact that displaces.

Officiating is probably the hardest job in all sport and basketball as difficult as any because 90% is judgement (where was their foot, did she get held, who was there first, when did he gather the ball) etc. I've got respect for the guys and gals who put on the Zebra stripes everynight. They have good days and bad like all of us, some are better at their job then others like all of us. It is a tough job that is only getting tougher. I can guarantee they won't be the determining factor in any games this weekend.



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celtic



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:51 am

CoachDJR wrote:

Before I say anything here I would like to preface all my comments by saying: I've watched DP play for a number of years now as a fan and opposing coach and I do not think they are dirty. Do they play tough, physical pressure defense you bet. Do they put their bodies on the line on every possession to in risk/reward plays definitely. Since they play at high speed, with hig phyiscality and athleticism are their collisions and players who occassionally go over edge for sure, but that is what playing at the edge gets you from time to time. I like the way DP plays and feel like they get some of the best coaching in the province regardless of classification.

The two underlying issues here are:

1) There is obvious inconsistency in how the game is called from region to region and zone to zone. This isn't just what official walks into the gym, but the amount of contact/ types of contact situations that garner foul calls, focus on footwork, and general tolerance for things (language, behaviours, even uniform issues).

2) Contact is not foul. There are rules about spacing, time and movement littered about the rule book but what it comes down to is the fact that basketball is a contact game and the only time something is a foul is if it clearly and immediately disadvantages the other player or gains an advantage. Which is fine except when you add the human component to issues in #1. Reaching is not a foul, bumping, initiating contact are not fouls until the official judges it to gain a clear and immediate advantage (or if they feel is is unportsmanlike/ leading to rough play). Judgement call!


The problem is how this is judged. Some officials feel any contact is inherently advantageous, other have a hard time judging so they call actions or types of contact regardless of the impact on the play and ignore others for the same reasons, our very best officials do a great job but if saddled with a younger or less compotent official need the game called consistently throughout. Combine that with the speed of the game, and the prevelance of atheletes over skilled kids we see now (more games less practice . . .) and you've got a recipe for some messy soup.

The only acutal complaint I would have really wouldn't change from season to season. Its not with a particular team. officials or area either. The only things I tend to get worked up about are:

- I spend an inordinate amount of practice time on stance and footwork that I know other teams are spending on tactics or conditioning. Please call the travels.

- Contact that disadvantage causes a foul, not just arm contact that disadvantages. A pg getting handchecked is probably less disadvantaged then a forward. cutter or post body blocked off their route or out of the key. Yet hand/arm contact the impedes gets called much more often then body contact that displaces.

Officiating is probably the hardest job in all sport and basketball as difficult as any because 90% is judgement (where was their foot, did she get held, who was there first, when did he gather the ball) etc. I've got respect for the guys and gals who put on the Zebra stripes everynight. They have good days and bad like all of us, some are better at their job then others like all of us. It is a tough job that is only getting tougher. I can guarantee they won't be the determining factor in any games this weekend.




Well said!!
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Jimmy V



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:34 pm

I guess defense can be what separates the 'boys' from the 'men.' I have watched some Devon Parks games over the last few years and watched their program be built around the ideology of "fundamental" defensive basketball. Just from some of the games I have seen their Coach, and his entourage of Assistant Coaches, are very "enthusiastic" about their defense. Let's be real, they are a small school in a church basement (from what I'm told) and their players are good, but not great. The Devon Park Coach takes a bunch of boys and makes them play like men, and when they relax for a split second, they are dragged across the coals. How do you think Carleton University got so good and attracts the top basketball players each year? Their coach expects them to play at a higher level than any other CIS school, EVERYDAY. I have only seen Devon Park play a few times this year, but they are not that good. If anything, I think their Coach was fairly easy on them compared to how "active and emotional" he can be in other games. Maybe the old age is making him soft.

I have also watched Hartland the last few years, and I was very impressed with them this year. Their coach took an "average" Single A team and is building a basketball program. You can tell those kids love basketball. He knew it would take a few years to build up his program and be a contender. They have numerous "little victories" in my opinion. Do you think he tells his kids to play dirty? I highly doubt it. He tells his players to go out, play hard and play tough defense. I have seen this first hand.

I think the importance though is teaching kids accountability, on and off the court. These coaches are trying to teach the kids to play hard and work even harder not just in basketball, but in whatever they do. They want their kids to be successful individuals, and if they become decent ball players great. I guarantee these coaches (and these are just two examples, I know) hold the kid who plays five per game to the same standard that he holds the 35 min/game player too.
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ForceHimLeft



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:59 pm

I've seen Devon Park play a few times this year and even more over the last 2 or 3 and they are a hard nosed team that are built on fundamentals.

From my experience in watching them, I have seen a few quesetionable plays by one of their guards that have been borderline intent to injure. He's also the same player that pushed his own teammate after missing a shot to tie the game in the dying seconds at the Final 8. The si called "dirty play" is not a reflection of the coach at DP, but the decision making of his players.
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Boas 98-02



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:26 pm

outspoken wrote:


When are the referees in our area going to clue into the dirty play of this team which is obviously promoted by the coach. Everyone in our area are aware of their cheap tactics for the last few years. It is time that the officials open their eyes.


Sorry whoever you are, DP is just an in your face all out hustle team, man up or shut up, I can understand if you are frustrated if the play is physical and calls don't go your way, but that's the game. 10 against one so far on here, that should be telling you something!
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PEZZ



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:49 pm

Boas 98-02 wrote:


Sorry whoever you are, DP is just an in your face all out hustle team, man up or shut up, I can understand if you are frustrated if the play is physical and calls don't go your way, but that's the game. 10 against one so far on here, that should be telling you something!

Make that 11 against.
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i9h0w



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:00 pm

I must admit, I find it funny that outspoken was online yesterday morning. I see they still haven't responded to prove their points. Maybe they realized that they were sadly mistaken...
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BeeBall4Lifee



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:19 pm

i9h0w wrote:
I must admit, I find it funny that outspoken was online yesterday morning. I see they still haven't responded to prove their points. Maybe they realized that they were sadly mistaken...

Sadly I think that outspoken was actually a dp fan stirring up the pot.......seems like a typical fundamental basketball strategy.........seems to be a lot of newbies on here.....
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thrasher



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:11 pm

afro
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Sou_by_Souwest



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PostSubject: Devon Park   Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:41 am

I watched Devon Park play Harvey early in the year at the Rothesay High tournament. Devon Park was lazy on defense the first quarter and Harvey destroyed them. I almost left the gym it was such a whitewash. There was an obvious gap between Harvey's athletic skills and Devon Park athletic skills.

Then the DP coach got the boys inspired (got in their face and told them to man up and play some defence) and they came back to win the game. They play good tough nosed pressing defense. There are referees on the floor to decide if they cross the line. Anyone who takes such a small student body and turns everyone of them into gutsy hard nosed defenders deserves some respect.

If DP did not play the defense they play, they would be a middle of the pack single A team. Kudos for someone asking kids to work hard and give it their all when they hit the court.

Basketball is a physical game. When you get to senior boys basketball it is not tiddleywinks!! You get banged and bumped on the court. Shake hands after , get over it, and be friends. Let's not get ourselves into the hockey mentality where the other team is the enemy on and off the court/ice.


Last edited by Sou_by_Souwest on Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Birdman33



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:02 am

Sou_by_Souwest wrote:
I watched Devon Park play Harvey early in the year at the Rothesay High tournament. Devon Park was lazy on defense the first quarter and Harvey destroyed them. I almost left the gym it was such a whitewash. There was an obvious gap between Harvey's athletic skills and Devon Park athletic skills.

Then the DP coach got the boys inspired (go in their face and told them to man up and play some defence) and they came back to win the game. They play good tough nosed pressing defense. There are referees on the floor to decide if they cross the line. Anyone who takes such a small student body and turns everyone of them into gutsy hard nosed defenders deserves some respect.

If DP did not play the defense they play, they would be a middle of the pack single A team. Kudos for someone asking kids to work hard and give it their all when they hit the court.

Basketball is a physical game. When you get to senior boys basketball it is not tiddleywinks!! You get banged and bumped on the court. Shake hands after , get over it, and be friends. Let's not get ourselves into the hockey mentality where the other team is the enemy on and off the court/ice.

Great post! Thanks!!!
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bballrules



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PostSubject: I agree with outspoken   Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:46 pm

I have to absolutely agree with outspoken. Devon Park are most definitely dirty players. They like to push and shove their elbow in your face. So all I can say is "GO Harvey!"
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celtic



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:53 pm

bballrules wrote:
I have to absolutely agree with outspoken. Devon Park are most definitely dirty players. They like to push and shove their elbow in your face. So all I can say is "GO Harvey!"

Sorry to tell ya but pushin and elbows are part of good basketball. Maybe you should be watchin/playin mini ball!
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bballrules



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:02 pm

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. I know all about DP along with alot of other people I am sure. That is why I am cheering for Harvey
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i9h0w



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:44 pm

bballrules wrote:
I have to absolutely agree with outspoken. Devon Park are most definitely dirty players. They like to push and shove their elbow in your face. So all I can say is "GO Harvey!"

Let's be honest here, almost every team in the freaking province does this. Due to the fact they Christian in their school name, you all expect for them to lay down and give you the ball. I have watched DP play for 4 years, and everything everyone has said about them is true. They are an extremely hard working team, and yes, they are physical. Some of those physical plays are boarder line, as it is in any fast paced sport. But let's be honest, the only reason this plays get magnified is because of the name of the school.

I've watched a lot of other teams in the province, and they do the exact same stuff. Regardless of who wins the game tonight, it's going to be a dandy.
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GM Breaker '84-'88



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:07 pm

Basketball is a physical game...if you think someone is crossing the line....you give it back. A 'discreet' elbow to the ribs a couple of times (while boxing out) should do the trick...it doesn't have to be vicious...just a 'how do you do?'......do this when the shot is in the air...refs are usually watching the ball...might be harder to get away with this, during the weekend. I'm sure many will frown on this suggestion...but I found it to be effective... Wink

We use to have physical battles with Campobello back in the day (elbows, pushing, cursing etc.) no treat for officals, I'm sure....but, after the game was over, we shook hands and were friends...as though nothing happened. Whats the saying?..what happens on the court stays on the court...
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BlindAsABat



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PostSubject: Wanna bet?   Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:51 pm

[quote="GM Breaker '84-'88"]Basketball is a physical game...if you think someone is crossing the line....you give it back. A 'discreet' elbow to the ribs a couple of times (while boxing out) should do the trick...it doesn't have to be vicious...just a 'how do you do?'......do this when the shot is in the air...refs are usually watching the ball...

Why watch the ball, it never fouled anyone? Good refs know better and what to look for. As to the difference between physical play and a foul, well that's easy, there's a whistle when there is a foul. Everything else is physical play and should be expected with high caliber bball. Yes different zones ref differently but that is the human factor. Celebrate what is good about the game instead of taking shots at other teams/players/or officiating.
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BumptheCutter



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PostSubject: Re: Devon Park Christian School Varsity Boys   Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:22 pm

Great win LAKERS!!!! YAHOOOO!!! Looks good on the *******, gotta love how KARMA will always come back to bite ya. You could have done the right thing last weekend in Bellisle, the honest thing but NO... . You know will have to live with the curse of "MOFFITT" for at least the next 7 years!!! HAHAHAHA Best team in "A" ball won tonight they deserved it.
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