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 state of officiating: opinions

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deathstar11



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Join date : 2011-08-15

PostSubject: state of officiating: opinions   Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:12 pm

since i am relatively new to high school basketball, i was wondering if any of the more experienced coaches/parents/etc who frequent this forum have noticed a gradual decline in the quality of officiating. There seems to be a number of officials who refuse to blow their whistle for rough play or flagrant fouls, and then they lose control of the game and it turns into a wrestling match. I was under the impression that excessive contact in the post was an issue that was deemed to be focused on this year. You could have fooled me!
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4444



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Join date : 2012-03-09

PostSubject: Re: state of officiating: opinions   Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:28 am


There are some refs who are very good, the majority are adequate and fair, but there are a few who deserve the "ROTTEN WHISTLE AWARD jocolor

Recent Nominees Include:

1st place: EP Scarlet vs BOB senior girls - ref removed the whole crowd because they were calling out "travel" "3 in the key" He didn't like others calling the game for him - BOO HOO!

2nd place: BG vs STM senior boys - ref ejected player from the game when he thought he saw the player "throw a punch" Fans from both sides booed that call - WHOA BIG FELLA - YOU HAD A PREMATURE EJECTION!

3rd place: BOB vs BG senior boys - two refs gaze off and totally ignore one player with a bad temper throw a metal chair down onto the court as he stalked off to the change room. W here's T he F arm?

ANY OTHER NOMINEES?
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PleaseBoxOut



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Join date : 2013-06-05

PostSubject: Re: state of officiating: opinions   Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:42 pm

The problem with the referees is the level of respect given to them. The parents treat the referees awful. You also see it from the players. Everyone disagrees with every foul call, and though the calls may be terrible, there is nothing they can do to reverse the call. Telling a ref how much they suck doesn't make them want to do better. It only makes them get defensive and keeps them from reffing to the best of their abilities. I agree, referees need to be better educated, but parents and coaches aren't doing their part either. A little bit of respect from the parents and the kids might motivate the referees to really push themselves to get better. The current system, clearly isn't working. If I was a 24 year old kid, who just got done with my playing career, why would I want to go into reffing when I am constantly berated and told how awful I am? Even at the top level. Educate the public on how to talk to people, then maybe we will start seeing better refs.


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withoutapause



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PostSubject: Re: state of officiating: opinions   Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:20 pm

PleaseBoxOut wrote:
The problem with the referees is the level of respect given to them. The parents treat the referees awful. You also see it from the players. Everyone disagrees with every foul call, and though the calls may be terrible, there is nothing they can do to reverse the call. Telling a ref how much they suck doesn't make them want to do better. It only makes them get defensive and keeps them from reffing to the best of their abilities. I agree, referees need to be better educated, but parents and coaches aren't doing their part either. A little bit of respect from the parents and the kids might motivate the referees to really push themselves to get better. The current system, clearly isn't working.  If I was a 24 year old kid, who just got done  with my playing career, why would I want to go into reffing when I am constantly berated and told how awful I am? Even at the top level. Educate the public on how to talk to people, then maybe we will start seeing better refs.

Respect the officials, wow I strongly disagree. You have to be an official to be making a statement as such. I think that with the exception of a selective few, most officials in our country lack professionalism and are power hungry jerks. Why is that coaches, parents, fans or players must respect officials especially when they do not respect coaches, parents, fans or players themselves. Many time officials will award the home team the benifit of the doubt or they will get an attitude when a coach,parent or fan gets emotional and then they usually turn into a authoritorian official that is set out to punish or teach them a lesson. BUT i donot think its entirely all the officials fault that they behave in this manner. I think that if we actually paid thema decent salary we should be able to hold them accountable for when theuy do exhibit biased or unprofessional behavior. Currently because the pay is so horrible we are forced to settle for some bullsh!t officias who ethically should not be allowed in a position to management game yet we have to because there isnt a decent pay that can be used to weedout either the poor officials or the unethical officials that abuse their position of management.

Officiating is not a easy job as it is tough to be able to make everyone home team, visiting team, fans and coaches happy; thus soemone is always going to be unhappy. BUT the same can be said for parenting or coaching its tough to make EVERYONE happy. Someone will always be unhappy SO why is that we need to cuddle and hold the hands of officials. Its a pressure job and pressure comes along with the territory. If you watch NBA or NCAA games, those officials get literally verbally abused (f-this, f-that, your're an idiot, f-you) and they take it. Every once in a while they will have enough and issue technical fouls, but the main difference is their tolerence level; because they get paid a good salary where if they lose their officiating job it could mean losing food on your table; they have to give respect the coaches, player and fans because they are under constant evaluation and too many of those could mean a loss of a good job.

To me our officials are like mall security compared to real police officers, now ask yourself the question, how much would you respect a mall security approaching you in a negative manner demanding respect and telling you how and where to go. Not gonna work buddy, bget a better job that requires you to relate to citizens in a more respectful manner and trade your flashlight in for a legit badge and gun.
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kraull



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PostSubject: Re: state of officiating: opinions   Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:21 pm

Wow, I have never disagreed with a post as much as I disagree with Withoutapause!
Your response was exactly what Pleaseboxout was saying. We are seeing a change in our culture where fewer people, kids parents and coaches, seem to value the concept of respect. In the world of Basketball, especially High School Basketball, we are seeing more and more of this. Coaches acting like jerks to players on both theris and the other team, primadonna kids that don't think they need to practice or do as the coach is telling them, parents egging bad behaviour or doing it themselves.
I have been in all of the positions over the last 10 years - coaching High School, Parent and even a Referee. I did the coaching and Reffing because I love the game and wanted to be involved any way I could. As a Parent I had obvious biases, but at the end of the game the outcome was what the game was - win or lose. Whining and complaining, or getting angry wasn't going to change what happened. If the reffing or even the kids or coaches got really bad this is an opportunity for someone to step up and give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. That's the concept of Improving. To get bettter and excel. In today's professional sports do you think a winning team doesn't go thru game film and see what they could have done better? Ref's don't always get evaluated, but it is done regularly. And few ref's are in it for Autonomy or the money. They don't want to make a mistake or cause trouble. They honestly want to get in there and ensure the game goes as smoothly and "professionally" as possible.
I think the bigger problem is the attitude of overly competitive adults and kids. It's ok to be competitive, but in the end you should not be sacrificing good values of sportmanship.
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withoutapause



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PostSubject: Re: state of officiating: opinions   Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:59 pm

kraull wrote:
Wow, I have never disagreed with a post as much as I disagree with Withoutapause!
Your response was exactly what Pleaseboxout was saying. We are seeing a change in our culture where fewer people, kids parents and coaches, seem to value the concept of respect. In the world of Basketball, especially High School Basketball, we are seeing more and more of this. Coaches acting like jerks to players on both theris and the other team, primadonna kids that don't think they need to practice or do as the coach is telling them, parents egging bad behaviour or doing it themselves.
I have been in all of the positions over the last 10 years - coaching High School, Parent and even a Referee. I did the coaching and Reffing because I love the game and wanted to be involved any way I could. As a Parent I had obvious biases, but at the end of the game the outcome was what the game was - win or lose. Whining and complaining, or getting angry wasn't going to change what happened. If the reffing or even the kids or coaches got really bad this is an opportunity for someone to step up and give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. That's the concept of Improving. To get better and excel. In today's professional sports do you think a winning team doesn't go thru game film and see what they could have done better? Ref's don't always get evaluated, but it is done regularly. And few ref's are in it for Autonomy or the money. They don't want to make a mistake or cause trouble. They honestly want to get in there and ensure the game goes as smoothly and "professionally" as possible.
I think the bigger problem is the attitude of overly competitive adults and kids. It's ok to be competitive, but in the end you should not be sacrificing good values of sportmanship.

Obviously your experiences are different then mine. I know Officials that carry the same labels as you described above: Jerks, over competitive, official's that dont think they need to practice or be communicated to, think they know it all so they take game upon themselves - just to prove a point. To me its the same old song BUT the major difference is that players, parents and coach cannot effect or control the game they way an unethical, angry or jerk official can. There may be officials out there that claim to officiate for exercise and the love of the game, my point about money was that if they actually got paid a fulltime salary, jerk officials would actually have to think twice before they start being jerks. I have heard some very unprofessional remarks come out of officials mouths to player, coaches and even a parent or to, but at the end of the day if a player, parent or coach talks badly to an official, they can removed from the gym. Maybe it a case where a selective few officials are giving all the others a bad rep, but the real issue is that these jerk officials are protected and are quick to use their powers to attack anyone that they please. They are quick to write a report to the ASAA, ACAC or CIS to highlight someone else negative behavior but when a player, coach or parent writes a complaint about them, it tends to fall on definite death ears and the jerk official is allowed to smile walk away and continue to mistreat whoever on a game by game basis. I bet if officials were treated like other official get treated in some of these foreign countries they would think twice about being so vindictive.
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PleaseBoxOut



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PostSubject: Re: state of officiating: opinions   Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:46 pm

"You have to be an official to be making a statement as such. I think that with the exception of a selective few, most officials in our country lack professionalism and are power hungry jerks. "

1. I am not a referee. I do, however, interact regularily with referees and am probably a referees biggest enemy.
2. I agree that many lack professionalism, but the current way we are treating them isn't exactly cultivating an environment that makes them want to be more professional. Try being nice to a referee for a game, even if the calls are terrible. I promise you will enjoy the game more when you can stop blaming someone else for a teams failures.
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SlowPoke



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PostSubject: Re: state of officiating: opinions   Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:23 pm

I've been coaching a watching organized basketball in Calgary for 16 years. As far as I'm concerned, there is no gradual decline in reffing. It has never been much good but then a lot of refs are just picking up a little extra cash and without them parents like me and withoutapause would have to ref our kids games. No way I'm going to do that!!! Not many of us want to be the ref.

I feel like I've seen it all. Probably not though. However, I've seen a lot of good and a lot of bad. I've abused refs as a coach, as a parent and just as a fan. I've also been removed from the gym on one occasion and threatened with ejection on many others. I've seen homers and really well called games. Some refs would just talk to me and others got all up in my face. Through it all, I only managed to influence one single call and never had a call reversed.

How many times have we seen a collision under the basket. One team is driving and the other is setting up to take a charge. Wham. Two kids are on the floor and the parents and coaches for each side are calling for a charge or a block. The ref makes the call. No matter what call he/she makes, 50% of the people in the gym think he/she is wrong. Touch fouls, fouls away from the ball, loose ball fouls,etc. Sometimes there is just no way for a ref to be right. Half of the fans think the call is wrong.

I've tried to relax and let the game unfold as it will. I know i can't influence the calls and getting mad doesn't change anything. Screaming obnoxious parents are just a distraction to the game we are all there to watch. I'm speaking from experience. When you sit back and just watch, you see that the poor calls often go both ways and many of the calls are so close they could go either way.

Without these people making the time to try and offer solid unbiased reffing, we would not have the organized sports that we do. We can scream and holler but that just drives the existing refs out of the system. Want to make a change? Buy a stripped shirt, a whistle and give it you best shot. No doubt there is a parent out there ready to rip your calls and label you a jerk when you eject them.

I am not a ref and no friend to them. I would love to see better training offered and much better results on the court. That is only going to happen when our communities, clubs and schools offer to subsidize training. Until then, might as well keep your blood pressure in check and just enjoy watching your kid play.
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withoutapause



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PostSubject: Re: state of officiating: opinions   Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:46 pm

PleaseBoxOut wrote:
"You have to be an official to be making a statement as such. I think that with the exception of a selective few, most officials in our country lack professionalism and are power hungry jerks. "

1. I am not a referee. I do, however, interact regularily with referees and am probably a referees biggest enemy.
2. I agree that many lack professionalism, but the current way we are treating them isn't exactly cultivating an environment that makes them want to be more professional. Try being nice to a referee for a game, even if the calls are terrible. I promise you will enjoy the game more when you can stop blaming someone else for a teams failures.
I do not Coach, play ball nor do I have a child playings so the outcome really doesnt mean anything to me. Just like Slowpoke said above, just be quiet and watch the game and i alway do that. the truth is that there is a few official that need their stripes taken as they are homers, ref with a chip on their shoulder, hold grudges and they prostitute the younger officials to follow their lead, oppinion and abrasive behaviour. The state of officiating would be alot better without these people. Being the managers of the game they should have a code of ethics or professionalism and should be called on these things immediately, but no. They continue to abuse specific, players, coaches and in some cases fans by punishing the teamthey are cheering for - then they compound thier behavior by manipulating the report to always hide their actions and demean others.
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Black Oak



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PostSubject: Re: state of officiating: opinions   Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:44 pm

I think everyone - even withoutapause, have made some strong points. I agree that refs should be paid more. I also agree that we(As coaches) should be able to hold them accountable for a horrible game. But we should treat each other with mutual respect. If I disagree with a ref, I call them over to discuss it. The lousy ones won't come over to talk to me because they; aren't confident in the call they made, Lack respect for me, or are just there to collect a check and couldn't care less(There may be more reasons, feel free to add to that). Just as we could all sit and discuss which ref is horrible at what, the refs are a tight nit group that all know who you and I are on the court. If you act with respect, they will treat you back with respect. But when they don't, they definitely come off as power hungry but are more likely just lacking in confidence. If that's the case, send them to lower divs.

That being said, I have berated, hollered, and carried on at a bad call and have managed to only receive two technicals ever!(My wife is astounded at how it hasn't been more) I have received so few technicals because, usually what I'm saying is justified or within the bounds of respect so as not to swear or ridicule. I also manage parents as best as I can, to not be abusive, as well as players. Slowpoke mentions that he has only seen one call reversed in 16 years and he is right, you usually won't change the way that someone refs a game, but you can get an eplanation as to how they are calling it and pass it to your players with great success. Even better, when the ref changes the plan again mid game, you can call them on it and make them accountable. But some refs are just asses.

There are always extenuating circumstances with those "asses", but know this refs - we coaches know well ahead of time if you are crappy or have it out for a particular coach or school, so play if fair regardless, because it's the kids who suffer your prejudices, not us coaches! (Maybe us coaches a little bit Rolling Eyes )

Parents or fans should never yell at a ref. Don't get me wrong, boo'ing a call is part of the game but berating a ref from the stands over and over to try to make a point is just pathetic. You aren't going to change anything but the fact that you just looked like an ass in front of the crowd and more importantly, your own kid.
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