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 Should the NBIAA change the basketball play-off format?

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C-N '06-'09



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PostSubject: Should the NBIAA change the basketball play-off format?   Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:24 am

There was some talk on here around regionals about some people not liking the format that is put in place (particularly the seeding games at regionals). What would your ideal play-offs look like?

I would like to see a 1-16 (or 1-14 or 12 for AA with byes) with the top one or two teams in each division with an automatic berth. Someone mentioned that the like the format Maine has. If I understand it correctly, the only issue I would have with it is that in many divisions most years the top ranked team in the NE is not even close to the 1st or 2nd ranked team in the province, so the provincial finals becomes the SW regional final.
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GM Breaker '84-'88



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PostSubject: Re: Should the NBIAA change the basketball play-off format?   Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:18 pm


Not sure what you are looking for...but, how has the current system failed? Everyone likes upsets, but if that doesn't happen....I think most people like to see the top two play in the final. Isn't that what we had this past year? Arguably, the top two teams play in the Finals??
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Should the NBIAA change the basketball play-off format?   Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:26 am

I don't think the problems being spoken of were the finals as much as the initial regional playdowns in areas without interlocking schedules.

If I recall the two issues were:

A) Teams who play in small conference schedules or conferences but because of the conference size get an automatic push onto the regionals. Vs. teams in a very large conference/interlcoked conference inte who might be the 5th best team in the conference or 6th 7th best in the province but not making it into the playoff round while less competitive teams get a playoff shot in February. I don't personally think this is a big problem but some schools don't like the fact the their geography/league determines their chances of getting to meaningful games in February more then others do. LIfe's not fair but people seem to think sports should be.

B) The other issue was with the seeding games in the regional play. Two teams lose in the semi's and then play in a 3rd/4th game where for travel reasons or competiitve reasons the following weekend it is more advantageous to lose the game. The thought was that their must be a better way to determine the seedings for playoff position then questionable in game ethics.
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C-N '06-'09



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PostSubject: Re: Should the NBIAA change the basketball play-off format?   Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:48 pm

I am only speaking for "A" boys ball when I say this but most years the 5th place team in the south would be the top team or close to the top team in the North East. Lower ranked teams in the West would also benefit from a provincial ranking. Some people have stated that Hartland is a favourite to win next year. They only played one game in regionals this year. It would be a lot more exciting if the provincial quarter-finals were a little more exciting. I preffer not to know who is playing on provincials saturday on regionals saturday. With provincial seeding every game is elimination and the the best teams play in February.
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GM Breaker '84-'88



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PostSubject: Re: Should the NBIAA change the basketball play-off format?   Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:21 pm

CoachDJR wrote:
I don't think the problems being spoken of were the finals as much as the initial regional playdowns in areas without interlocking schedules.

If I recall the two issues were:

A) Teams who play in small conference schedules or conferences but because of the conference size get an automatic push onto the regionals. Vs. teams in a very large conference/interlcoked conference inte who might be the 5th best team in the conference or 6th 7th best in the province but not making it into the playoff round while less competitive teams get a playoff shot in February. I don't personally think this is a big problem but some schools don't like the fact the their geography/league determines their chances of getting to meaningful games in February more then others do. LIfe's not fair but people seem to think sports should be.

B) The other issue was with the seeding games in the regional play. Two teams lose in the semi's and then play in a 3rd/4th game where for travel reasons or competiitve reasons the following weekend it is more advantageous to lose the game. The thought was that their must be a better way to determine the seedings for playoff position then questionable in game ethics.

A) Welcome to the world of sports....this happens every year. Let us look at this past baseball season.

Tampa Bay Rays 90 wins, had to play NYY & O's - 18, 19 times...did not make playoffs.
LA Angels 89 wins, had to play A's & Rangers - 18, 19 times...did not make playoffs.
Detroit Tigers 88 wins, had to play KC, Clev, Min - 18, 19 times...made playoffs.

So, T-Bay finished 3rd, had more wins and played in a tougher division than Detroit...

B) I agree this is a problem....and I do not know what the solution is.
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GM Breaker '84-'88



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PostSubject: Re: Should the NBIAA change the basketball play-off format?   Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:31 pm

C-N '06-'09 wrote:
I am only speaking for "A" boys ball when I say this but most years the 5th place team in the south would be the top team or close to the top team in the North East. Lower ranked teams in the West would also benefit from a provincial ranking. Some people have stated that Hartland is a favourite to win next year. They only played one game in regionals this year. It would be a lot more exciting if the provincial quarter-finals were a little more exciting. I preffer not to know who is playing on provincials saturday on regionals saturday. With provincial seeding every game is elimination and the the best teams play in February.

How can you have Provincial seeding if you do not have a balanced schedule? You can't let people do the seeding...lol....I'm about the only one who can do it objectively. If you get 20 people to do - 'A' Boys....you'll probably have 20 different lists.

Ummm...the best teams did play in February.
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C-N '06-'09



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PostSubject: Re: Should the NBIAA change the basketball play-off format?   Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:04 pm

GM Breaker '84-'88 wrote:
C-N '06-'09 wrote:
I am only speaking for "A" boys ball when I say this but most years the 5th place team in the south would be the top team or close to the top team in the North East. Lower ranked teams in the West would also benefit from a provincial ranking. Some people have stated that Hartland is a favourite to win next year. They only played one game in regionals this year. It would be a lot more exciting if the provincial quarter-finals were a little more exciting. I preffer not to know who is playing on provincials saturday on regionals saturday. With provincial seeding every game is elimination and the the best teams play in February.

How can you have Provincial seeding if you do not have a balanced schedule? You can't let people do the seeding...lol....I'm about the only one who can do it objectively. If you get 20 people to do - 'A' Boys....you'll probably have 20 different lists.

Ummm...the best teams did play in February.

IMO the top 16 were not the top 16 "A" teams, the top 8 were not the top 8 "A" teams. It wasn't until the top 4 last year. That being said, speaking only for "A" boys, there is potential for more parity this season around the province.

As far as finding people who could rank the teams, other provinces do it. There would obviosuly have to be rules set in place.

As I look deeper into it, this "solution" would most likely just create more exhibition leagues (like the girls "A" NE this year) because fewer teams would have something to play for.
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Metta Peace



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PostSubject: Re: Should the NBIAA change the basketball play-off format?   Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:13 pm

C-N '06-'09 wrote:
GM Breaker '84-'88 wrote:
C-N '06-'09 wrote:
I am only speaking for "A" boys ball when I say this but most years the 5th place team in the south would be the top team or close to the top team in the North East. Lower ranked teams in the West would also benefit from a provincial ranking. Some people have stated that Hartland is a favourite to win next year. They only played one game in regionals this year. It would be a lot more exciting if the provincial quarter-finals were a little more exciting. I preffer not to know who is playing on provincials saturday on regionals saturday. With provincial seeding every game is elimination and the the best teams play in February.

How can you have Provincial seeding if you do not have a balanced schedule? You can't let people do the seeding...lol....I'm about the only one who can do it objectively. If you get 20 people to do - 'A' Boys....you'll probably have 20 different lists.

Ummm...the best teams did play in February.

IMO the top 16 were not the top 16 "A" teams, the top 8 were not the top 8 "A" teams. It wasn't until the top 4 last year. That being said, speaking only for "A" boys, there is potential for more parity this season around the province.

As far as finding people who could rank the teams, other provinces do it. There would obviosuly have to be rules set in place.

As I look deeper into it, this "solution" would most likely just create more exhibition leagues (like the girls "A" NE this year) because fewer teams would have something to play for.

I think a Ranking system would work and has worked in the past. The NBIAA is wrapped up in a tidy package of Regional representation and quality teams are being left out because of the format. As mentioned in the post, a number 5 in one conference is stronger than a one or two in another conference. It shouldn't be a penalty to a program for playing a strong schedule and others advance by just showing up or lack of numbers. Years ago, a ranking system was in place. It was started by Rankine Smith a former Prinicpal of Petty HIgh, it was labelled Rankins Rankings. Each category, "A", AA' and AAA were ranked in boys and girls 1 thru 8 and went to the provincial tournament. The selections were done by a reasonable intelligent basketball person and seeds were based on overall record, strength of schedule, etc. Some debate would enter on selections but most schools accepted the outcome. I would like to see something like that return.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Should the NBIAA change the basketball play-off format?   Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:28 pm

I like the idea of the ranking system. I'm sure you have enough relatively fair minded and intelligent people in the basketball community that these could be looked at fairly.

The only areas of concern would be making sure that teams got games and how strength of schedule would be impacted by travel concerns and willingness to play. As I assume all of this would still have the same travel regulations and game restrictions.

If you are a building program, or a hassle to travel too, or just a new coach and not part of the loop you would need some way to assure that these programs get games that are meaningful. There would be little to no insentive to teams to play someone lower (in size, calibre, etc) but teams wanting to climb or grow would in fact need games of that sort. Also if teams can get all the good games they need in a 1-2 hour radius and others have to travel 2 hours to play anyone that could be problem.

That being said I'm all for a system that is more reflective and direct. It could also allow for more competition and competitive playoffs since depending on how far you wanted to take it you could even rank programs into more then 3 levels. Gawd forbid you just toss everyone into a big pot in terms of ranking and end up with multiple competitive playoff divisions regardless of school size, but now I'm just being foolish.
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