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 Off Season Noise

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karnsharda12



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:13 pm

Did not want to get into this but its getting out of hand. Do any of you know JBB personally? Do any of you even know he had to move to Saskatchewan first when BC school sports told him because his father moved to Surrey he no longer could go to Yale? Hes a kid who wants to go to school in BC be with his friends and play basketball. What is the Point to attack Jesus does he go on here and say oh taylors the best player in BC everyone else is terrible.. Heck no!

Kongbo NEVER lived in Kits and now he chooses to move back to his catchment school and not take the bus for 1 hour and 30 minutes everyday and people say the kid was recruited? Give me a break. In all honesty these kids all over choose to go to these schools because all these schools have real Basketball programs. How many years do we get to hear about John oliver or Killarny or Gladstone or Eric Hamber be a part of the top 10 teams in the province. Face the facts kids go where programs are, I played and coached in Richmond we lost players to VC or Saints all the time.

Alex Murphy- grade 8 Mcmath - Grade 9 VC grade 10 Saints

Isiah Solomon- grade 8 Cambie grade 9 Boyd grade 10 VC

Both Scrubb Brothers live in Richmond went to VC

I could go on and on about players like this but its not the kids fault they want to go where they want to go. Every year people just want to complain about the school that got the newest guy. Lay off and let the kids play where they play and cheer them all on and enjoy the games.
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JesusShuttlesworth



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:19 pm

The transfers of Kongbo and Bennet-Boire were as big a surprise to me as everyone else, but after getting some facts on these particular situations I can honestly say that these were both legitimate moves, and only happen-stance that they would occur and in the same year. I for one am all for being morally and ethically upstanding, but the situation at Holy Cross is a confluence of events brought about by sheer luck and coincidence in my opinion. I appreciate intelligent discussion and well-thought out posts/replies as this board is all about the back-and-forth of opinions of BC basketball aficionados so I respect arguments with SUBSTANCE. I am an outside observer like many of the rest of the posters on this board, and try to give my honest assessment and knowledge on basketball subject matter in BC, nothing else.
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JLivingston



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:23 pm

I just saw a post from the AD of HC all talk about Jaquin joining HC is premature and not registered yet. May be it is all started from his tweet as below:

Bennett-Boire ‏@JBB306  22h  

Excited to say that in a few hours I will officially be registered at Holy Cross, Surrey BC. According to BC high school sports, I can play!
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Aristotle



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:13 pm

Based on the HC AD's comment then it is premature to comment on Jaquin's transfer, but I feel obligated to comment on some of the points made.

I'm not sure Pooch, Karn and others were anyone exactly attacked Jesus' credibility and integrity. I think you have made the nexus that the comments are directly related to him. A point I made and strongly maintain is that given this hot topic and Jesus' relationship to Browne he can not be totally impartial. No one would expect anything differently then for him to be supportive as we would all do the same if we were in his situation; thus Jesus' emphasis is on adherence to the regulations. I still want to know how these regulations are being verified by BCSS with the transfers?

I don't believe Livingston made any personal attack on Jesus who we all personally respect and appreciate his enthusiasm for the game, but Livingston is correct on this point; there are many involved when these transfers occurs! I won't suggest HC coaching staff, but again we must be very bias and simplistic in our views if we believe these transfers were all engineered physically and mentally (influence) at the hand of the respective player.

I still maintain that this is more of a debate about ethics than rules/regulations if the rules are being followed to the letter of the provisions. Karn has stated it is a move solely based on basketball and friendships. Is this a contravention of the BCSS regs and spirit/intent? Or does it become an ethical debate? We don't have to be rocket scientists to deduce this.

This argument would absolutely hold if Jaquin transferred to Gleneagle, Mouat, Tammy, Walnut Grove etc, but the spotlight shines brighter on HC because of all the recent new enrollments in the past 2 years. What would have happened though is there would have been a switch in the identity of the supporters and dissenters because we are all bound/conditioned by our self-interests. It would be very interesting to canvass all the coaches in BC especially the pre-season ranked teams to get their opinions on the matter. I feel at this very moment they have some serious concerns. A further argument is that Pooch you said Drew Urquhart wasn't eligible in Seattle and you have been very critical of him from previous posts. What happens if he all of sudden returns and heads to Gleneagle, Burnaby South etc. How would you feel and how would this change the basketball landscape?

We all have to stop being foolish and get down to the heart of the issue, if Jaquin attends HC or any other strong school when the season is about to start then how many of you would now put HC or the other school at #1? HC in my opinion HC is missing a point guard and hypothetically, because he isn't officially registered at HC, would be a key missing piece. He is a strong and dynamic guard. Does it mean that they would win it all come March? I don't know but they'll be an awfully tough match up for any team if he plays there.

Karn you make it a personal issue about Jacquin because we know you coach and genuinely care for him and all your players and this is an admirable attribute. I recall very well a very similar situation few years back how heated this forum got when Kenny Monture transferred to Walnut Grove. There were many personal reasons laid out for the move and his mother even moved to Walnut Grove and he still did not receive eligibility. I recall the Walnut Grove program, coaches and the Cohees taking severe criticism and personal attacks. I don't know if the personal arguments have any substance, because every player has their own story and how do we gauge and weigh what significant to put on them.
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Aristotle



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:09 pm

With regards to ethics I bring up one further point to some of the comments. It was stated that one reason Kongbo returned to his catchment area HS - Holy Cross was due to the inconvenience of the 90 minute bus rides to Kitsilano. I assume it wasn't very demanding last year when Kits was arguably considered a #1 pre-season team. Now he rather return to HC who happens to be a highly ranked pre-season team. The question to ask yourself would the 90 minute public transit really still be a personal issue if Holy Cross was still in AA or not a very good team or if Kits was ranked above HC? What about his loyalty to his Kits teammates and coaching staff? Wonder how they felt or feel. Again this whole issue circulates more around personal ethics then anything else.
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PressThis



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:42 pm

HC is getting the wrath right now because they now will have two out of country students (who are also older than most seniors) and two recent transfers (4 of 5 starters?). They really should now should be the AAAA favorites and they will need to respond to pressure that comes along with this.

I strongly suspect that the "rules" have not been broken. If people have evidence to the contrary they can and should submit this for review (but otherwise not make unsubstantiated allegations).

This is really about players going to programs that they think will provide them a better chance of winning and more importantly exposure for university. I think this is really what people are reacting to - the strong getting stronger through transfers / relocation rather than through building and developing a team. This has been happening for some time and HC is just the most recent example.

I can't help but feel bad for some of the players who have been working their butts off in a school and then get displaced by those who relocate for a year or two to come to a winning program. Having said this, I also feel bad for players who want to excel at Bball and they are in a school that does not have a strong coach or program.

Maybe AAAA should be an anything goes division (i.e. go play where you want without all the rules) rather than based on school enrollment #'s? Not perfect, but an alternative.

I predict we will see more "super schools" within the rules (ie moving, going to privates) as the incentives increase (e.g. more local players going to div 1 schools etc.).

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Pooch



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:44 pm

Aristotle, I don't recall being critical of Urquhart.  I have always supported the right to move.  I didn't like the possible opening of the door for players from here to be able to go and play in Seattle.  I questioned how he could be eligible there and it turns out he wasn't.   That door isn't open and I am glad it isn't.
If he came back he too would dramatically effect the basketball landscape for sure but I do think he should.  I hate to see a young man who received terrible advice having to sit his senior season whether he has a Division One scholarship already or not.  
The senior season in high school is a memory most cherish the rest of their lives and sitting in Seattle instead of playing is sad from my point of view.
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BallerBC94



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:08 pm

I still stand by what I said - it is not right that 5-7 players can transfer into a school and turn it into a super school. What about all the kids who have played there the last 5 years? So what if the transfers moved to Surrey - we all know they moved for basketball and that's against BC School sports. If they claim its not for basketball, then spread them out across the schools in Surrey and make all of them competitive. Who wants to watch a school blow everyone out when everyone in the crowd, regardless of the player's new address, thinks they underhandidly built their team. My comparison of a bought team was not inferring they were paid to go, it was that Miami bought players and received all the criticism for it. How many more are going to move to Surrey before the season starts?
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stocktonsshorts



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Sat Nov 23, 2013 3:33 pm

BallerBC94 - You come here and post your feelings and get everyone upset.  Guess what... there is a lot of truth in what you say.

Aristotle - Love your posts, just wish I could write as well as you.

Jesus - Love your passion for high school hoops and your ability to deliver scores, matchups etc...  Just think that your the timing is bad for your opinion on transfers rules/ethics even if you have insider knowledge.

Pooch - I don't think you are being critical, I just think you are a huge St. Georges fan who was excited when Drew transfered in and gutted when he left.  It's gonna be ok.

Karn - I'm not sure why BC school sports would tell Boire he can't play for Yale and live in Surrey, wasn't Kongo allowed to play at Kits while he lived in Surrey... And btw I'm told that Kongbo lives in cloverdale, not exactly HC turf but definitely a lot closer than Kitsilano.

Here is what I see.

Whenever the issue of player transfers emerged on this forum people who were in favour of them had 2 primary arguments:
1. The right to choose    and
2. The player who was floundering at a school with no coaching searching for that opportunity to develop.
Ultimately players/parents do have the right to choose what they feel is best.  And there are certain situations where players  do need to move to a situation that provides them an opportunity to develop.

BUT.... what we are seeing now in most cases are players leaving schools with good coaching/programs to go play with better players and a better chance of winning.  Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with wanting to win...but it's unfortunate that it is coming to this.  And it's not going to get better.

Here's why:  The landscape has changed.  With more players playing year round club basketball they are getting lots of opportunity to develop and "exposure".  When the school season rolls around they are more concerned with a championship which leads to player movement.  Players talk and they are well aware of who is going where and with whom, and when a player sees an opportunity to play with better players, nowadays many of them take it.

Call me old school but it used to be refreshing to see a group kids from grade 6-7-8 play together and it culminate with their senior seasons championship or not.  There was value in that and putting on the jersey meant represnting your neighbourhood and your school.  We are losing that it it's unfortunate.  We are heading towards regional or club teams that have nothing to do with schools and it's too bad because high school sports in general provide major infrastrcuture and lifelong lessons for kids.

The other trickle down effect when a player or many players transfer into a school is that on the kids who were playing and are either off the team or at the end of the bench.  It would be interesting to get their take or their parent's take on the impact of player transfers.

my take.
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Pooch



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:04 pm

Well said.
I think another factor will lead to more movement. Many schools now struggle to have coaches in place and those that have(especially those recognized as doing a good job) will see more players coming their way.
Hard for a young person who loves the game not to consider moving if he has no idea who the coach will be when it is his time or even if they will still offer a team.
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Aristotle



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:59 pm

Stocktonshorts, your comments on transfers and eligibility are the best I've ever read on the forum and so accurate and honest that I don't think there will be many if any retorts especially those supportive of transfers.  In support of your post let's just think of the impact of all the new enrollment at Holy Cross within the past 2 years.  Basically overnight they went from a AA program who did not win the AA championships last year to potentially the #1 pre-season ranked team in AAAA. Have other top teams received local impact transfers this year?
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BallerBC94



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:59 pm

Stockton, yes, I did stir this hornet's nest, not to upset anyone but to point out the obvious. I do hope that there is a rule with BC School Sports that only allows 1-2 transfers per year to stop so many kids from transferring to one program and I hope it starts this season with HC. I feel bad for the HC kids who have been there since day 1, they will be on the bench, maybe even Browne. Jesus, you are so well respected on this forum, but there's nothing you can say about this topic that will be seen as objective anymore. I do hope you keep posting about other topics though. I hope this isn't finished and I hope we're not going to hear about anymore surprises from other schools.
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JesusShuttlesworth



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:02 pm

I agree stocktonshorts made some excellent points, but if anyone has an issue on transfers you can direct them at most of all the top schools rather than directing them at one particular school, I mean all the top teams not just this year but going all the way back to the 90's which is as far back as I can remember have had good players tranfer into schools like Kitsilano, Pitt, VC, Yale, Bby South, WRCA, St. Georges, and Richmond High in the 90's. I can count of the top of my head atleast a dozen "impact" players in AAAA schools this season who have transferred from their "home" high school to atleast a half dozen contending high school teams in BC. I won't go on here and list off names of specific players(because as an "adult" I personally don't like to negatively detract from these kids accomplishments, with this kind of talk) but if you look hard enough its easy enough to find out. This has been going on for years, and schools with good programs generally get good players, be it after elementary school or during high school, but transfers have never directly translated to championships, look at VC, they were known in the past to get the most transfers and how many championships do they have to show for it? Let's enjoy the game, and enjoy the effort these kids put on the floor every night.
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Hoopstar



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:24 pm

My kid plays for a AAAA team who will be just outside the top 10 for the next couple years. They don't get the transfers you are talking about.
I know my kid, his teammates and coaches have worked their ass off to get to this point.
Are you saying I should tell him don't worry about the fact that some schools circumvent the rules and create an unlevel playing field because they might not win?
The fact that it has been going on for years and that the super teams don't always win are VERY weak arguments for continuing to allow this to happen.

The 2 most important reasons for the rule in the first place are:

1 - create a level playing field so every school has a legitimate chance of competing and making provincials
2 - kids who participate in a program and sacrifice time, money and effort don't get pushed to the end of the bench because of transfers

Can anyone really argue that this shouldn't be stopped? Anyone in a position of authority who does nothing and people who try to justify it should remember the real reason for high school sports. It is not so a select few can get D1 scholarships and it is not so a handful of schools who break the rules get a competitive edge year after year regardless of the results
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JesusShuttlesworth



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:19 pm

I wholeheartedly agree with you that that if any school were to break any rules than something has to be done. But as I have stated that is up to to the governing boards to decide not us.
I just don't get this rationale that if you are "too good" a basketball player you shouldn't be allowed to enroll at a particular school, I mean who is their to judge that? If you live in the area of the school you should be able to go to school and play sports there period. Some of you are accusing kids/parents of being duplicitous in some way trying to bend the rules in their favor, but you seem to already have a preconceived notion that they are guilty of something, everyone has their own circumstance and without knowing any genuine facts who are we to judge.
If someone does have facts and evidence as to some wrongdoing be it from a school or child/parent bring it forward to the proper outlet and let them take the appropriate measures, and if nothing is done even with clear evidence of rule-breaking I will be right there with you condemning the system.
But young kids need to realize that teams with talent alone do not win, you have to be a team that plays for each other and works together as a collective to win, attitude is everything and a negative defeatist one before a single game has even been played will never equal in positive results.
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BallerBC94



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:32 pm

Jesus, you still don't seem to be getting what everyone is up in arms about...just because none of the HC transfers have "cheated" because they all moved or are moving to Surrey, does not mean what they have done is right. Past wrongs do not make a right. They moved to play basketball together - not for religion, not because HC is a great school, not because their parents forced them to move and transferring schools to play a sport is AGAINST BC School Sports rules. They could have gone to a number of other schools in Surrey if it was just because they moved, or they should sit out a year, or there should be a limit on how many transfers a school can take on one team in a season. With the new AAAA structure, stricter rules should have been put in place to stop repeating the past bs with bs transfers. Shame on the BC basketball community for allowing this. 1 or 2 quiet transfers usually get by with only a little bit of grumbling, but 5-7 starters in 2 years, sorry, ain't buying it. Bottom line, its wrong and if they win, its undeserved, because the kids who worked hard from grade 8 on to build that team, will be on the bench. Not in the spirit of the religion I grew up with.
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JesusShuttlesworth



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:13 pm

Seriously this is getting ridiculous, BallerBC94, you seem to have some insider knowledge that I don't have, you seem to positively know for a FACT that these kids transferred schools for basketball reasons and nothing else. Do you know the families involved? Do you know the circumstances under which each individual made the move? If you don't have facts but are basing your opinions on heresay what kind of example of a responsible adult are you? Is this what you want kids to see and read, unsubstantiated allegations are alright, this is the type of attitude that leads kids to cyber-bullying, you keep spouting off about "wrongs" being done, where's the proof of this? Let me know if you have any actual factual evidence rather than you bloveating about this issue over and over. What have you brought to this board other than attacks on kids and schools, I have not seen one, not one post with a positive connotation from you, we are here to talk basketball, kids playing a sport they love, and all you can post about are how kids are undeserving, it's incredulous to read such things coming from anyone. All the kids at all levels work hard and trying to tear them down is just irresponsible.
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Hoopstar



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:39 am

This is definitely my last post on this subject because it is becoming personal.

BallerBC's last post is right on target! Its not necessary to know the facts surrounding each move. Common sense says this is not some huge coincidence. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck......

I believe the vast majority of transfers originate with the kids doing the recruiting amongst themselves with players they know can improve their chances. I don't fault the kids AT ALL.

I don't believe the coaches are involved, however, the coaches can do the right thing to discourage this (even if after the fact) but choose not to.

People will find loopholes in any set of rules if the intent of the rule is not enforced by the governing body. It would be refreshing if BC School Sports made their decisions and the reasons public.

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JesusShuttlesworth



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:18 am

Hoopstar I value you thoughts and opinions and agree with most of your statements, but to say you don't need to know facts in order to make an accusatory/defamatory statement is just where we are on separate ends of the spectrum. I would never tell my child it's OK to put down others just because of how they look, I would ask them to get to know them on the inside and not live life with a mantra of "looks like a duck, quacks like a duck..." You become narrow minded if you don't  look for the facts or the truth and rely on assumptions and always reading a book by its cover.

The concept of common sense is a long-standing term, based on human experience and people's individual perceptions. Thus, common sense is different from person to person – common sense is not common.

Thus, when discussing issues of importance don't consider your position, or the position that you agree with, or even a position that has consensus, to be "common sense," because it's nothing more than your perception. Your idea of "common sense" is likely to contradict someone else's idea of "common sense."

By assuming your position is "common sense", all you're doing is insulting the people who disagree with you.


But like you said you can't lay blame on the kids, some other posts on this board have directly condemned these kids and undervalued what they might earn or accomplish on the court, and that is just wrong. If you have an issue it should be with the governing body BC School Sports to do the job you clearly think they are doing wrong. I hate seeing these negative posts directed at youngsters, be an example on this board, the youth read this, you can be critical of a kids basketball game, fine, but when I see posts putting kids morals/ethics into question that crosses the line.
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Aristotle



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:45 am

This is a very contentious and emotional issue where the arguments for both sides have been laid out. For the record I believe it is wrong even if there has been no contraventions of the regulations. If jacquin attends HC which I have been told he is in travel mode they will be a very strong team but by no means a shoe in for the championship. They will have to carry that target on their back as well as the court of public opinion. I'm certain their coaches will use this as motivation and I'm certain there are some teams really looking forward to play them. In conclusion I absolutely hope this does not become the new trend. This isn't CIS or Division 1 it is high school community basketball. I hope even you Jesus can see this is not good for HS basketball if this becomes the norm. I have nothing against the players but on the reverse I feel for those players and teams who have worked their butts off the right way in their quest for a championship.

Good luck to all the teams and I hope it is as good as a season as we witnessed last year

A
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JesusShuttlesworth



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:51 am

Aristotle wrote:
..In conclusion I absolutely hope this does not become the new trend. This isn't CIS or Division 1 it is high school community basketball. I hope even you Jesus can see this is not good for HS basketball if this becomes the norm..
This IS the norm, it is not a "new trend," haven't you been following high school basketball for the past decade? A high-powered lower-mainland high school I won't name has been getting 2-3 transfers EVERY year for as long as I can remember, where's your outrage? Why is it so outrageous now? Is it because you feel good players are getting together, but who is to judge if they're good players or not. Do you expect the school to give all new transfers a basketball test before being accepted? And if they get too high a score is the school supposed to deny them entry because you feel they have too many good players? Think logically, most of these points that are being made are an emotional response to what you FEEL is unfair that good basketball players are going to the same school, but logically speaking what would you like schools to do about this, if by many of your admissions no rules are being broken. Many of seem to accuse me of having a biased opinion, but I'm the only one thinking logically and not emotionally, most of these responses are not based on any facts but on some feeling some of you have that some sort of injustice has been done.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game."

I hope everyone enjoys the upcoming season, and continues to post to this board, but I do hope this negative rhetoric would stop and we can all talk about the games and accomplishments these kids strive to play and achieve.
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Aristotle



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:48 pm

Since you have enlightened me on the meaning of common sense, logic and intelligence and in conjunction with your opinion that my views and knowledge are flawed and illogical and based on emotion it would seem logical then to withdraw from this debate/discussion. In closing I will say it is interesting that your previous post is accusatory and inflammatory and your comments appear to be authored with a lot of emotion. I will though extend my apologies for not being a basketball authority, academic and psychologist as yourself and therefore worthy of expressing an opinion on this forum. Thank-you though for enhancing my knowledge base on the subject matter, but my opinion still holds even though you ardently emphasize that no infractions of the regulations have occurred nor violations of the intent/spirit of the BCSS and that previous transfer infractions/wrongdoings are the norm and therefore justifiable. I can’t comment on these other school programs in which you choose to be cryptic, but only what I see happening the past 2 years at HC. What other programs this season have similar transfers since you are a person based on fact and wants to turn this into a comparative analysis? Will the findings demonstrate that HC is on an island by itself? My point is and which appears to be lost on you, is that this is a discussion about ethics and the integrity of the game of all those involved. I hope BCSS examines these transfers/eligibility and their impact, this year and in previous years and undertakes stronger provisions to protect the integrity of the HS game in BC.
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mikegraham



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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:37 pm

Aristotle wrote:
Since you have enlightened me on the meaning of common sense, logic and intelligence and in conjunction with your opinion that my views and knowledge are flawed and illogical and based on emotion it would seem logical then to withdraw from this debate/discussion. In closing I will say it is interesting that your previous post is accusatory and inflammatory and your comments appear to be authored with a lot of emotion. I will though extend my apologies for not being a basketball authority, academic and psychologist as yourself and therefore worthy of expressing an opinion on this forum. Thank-you though for enhancing my knowledge base on the subject matter, but my opinion still holds even though you ardently emphasize that no infractions of the regulations have occurred nor violations of the intent/spirit of the BCSS and that previous transfer infractions/wrongdoings are the norm and therefore justifiable. I can’t comment on these other school programs in which you choose to be cryptic, but only what I see happening the past 2 years at HC.  What other programs this season have similar transfers since you are a person based on fact and wants to turn this into a comparative analysis? Will the findings demonstrate that HC is on an island by itself? My point is and which appears to be lost on you, is that this is a discussion about ethics and the integrity of the game of all those involved. I hope BCSS examines these transfers/eligibility and their impact, this year and in previous years and undertakes stronger provisions to protect the integrity of the HS game in BC.
I can feel your pain and anguish. When I posted my thoughts 2 months ago about HC as an Open petition to BCSS to draw attention, guess what happened. I was snuffed out too contemptuously.

mikegraham wrote:
This is an open petition to BCSS.

We were all watching the imbroglio between public schools vs independent schools in Vancouver for years until the independent schools willed their way they want in the last year.

Now similar situation has allegedly been started for the upcoming season in FV by Holy cross emulating their counterparts from Vancouver. They allegedly added so far 4 players past 2 years - Konghbo, twins and Dodazzo. Not sure whether there is scholarships awarded or any kind of church sponsorship involved. If there is any, the players who got benefited by such things must not be allowed to represent.  The same apply for other private schools such as WRCA and MEI.  Come on BCSS.  These schools were lying under the radar for so many years and now with their upgrade to 4A , it is time for closer auditing. Nip this practice in bud before these kind of practices gets more bolder in future.

It is all setting the level field.
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ebe



Posts : 497
Join date : 2009-12-04

PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:42 pm

Without question one of the main reasons these problems continue is due to the fact that BC School Sports has NO investigative body. The system is supposed to be self-regulating in that schools voluntarily turn themselves in when they inadvertently break the regulations. If someone wants to make a formal charge against another school it is next to impossible to get any action taken because of how the system is set up. BC School Sports has a part-time compliance officer but it is NOT his job to rule on any breaking of the rules. Basicaly we have a system in place that relies on all of those involved following the rules and when rules are broken we really do not have any kind of functional system in place to deal with it. I will give you a concrete and specific example that I personally experienced. Student athlete "Joe" attended a school in grade 11 and they had a very strong team but the next year his team was going to be weak. "Joe" was friends with a player from a different school who were going to be very good the next year. "Joe" decided to transfer to this school for his grade 12 year and the family gave a fake address. Everyone knew that it wasn't a legitimate transfer but nothing was done. Even with BC School Sports being aware we were told that not only would we need concrete proof but if the school confirmed he was attending they would have to investigate, as would the school district, etc. Basically thanks for the info but nothing will happen. This story that I share with you is all too common an occurence in high school sports. One should also remember that when a player has been recruited by a coach for example the only way to formally charge that coach is that player and his family sign a written formal complaint. As I am sure you can understand if that player ends up going to the school that recruited him getting that player and his family to sign a formal complaint will not happen and thus there can be no charge against that coach. As long as we have no regulatory body in charge of investigating and following up on allegations nothing will change. Also there is a tremendous amount of secrecy in BC School Sports eligibility decisions and this leads to issues where the schools do not understand many of the decisions that are made. A motion passed at BC School Sports a few years ago to make these decisions more transparent but this still has not happened. One of the difficulties with this are the privacy issues that surround some of these cases.
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Aristotle



Posts : 24
Join date : 2013-11-22

PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:32 pm

Interesting comments and examples Ebe and Mike. It further supports that this debate/discussion surrounds ethics and integrity. You've painted the perfect scenario for a business case proposal for the creation of investigative compliance body of BCSS.

What is the probability of creating stronger provisions like capping the number of transfers, number of times a player can transfer and that before a player is ruled eligible for transfer in his/her graduation year that they must meet the BCSS compliance officer in person with their parents and head coach and swear under oath that all the regulations/provisions under transfer eligibility have been met including that the motive for the transfer was not exclusively for basketball? What school will be under the microscope next year and the year after that and so on?

I believe every basketball player loves the game and plays to win and possesses an individual and team goal of winning either the A, AA, AAA, and AAAA championship even before the season commences. This is their right as a student-athlete, something that they've earned and are entitled and we as ambassadors of the game and good will owe them this opportunity and must do everything to protect its integrity and the spirt of HS sports beyond participation.
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PostSubject: Re: Off Season Noise   Today at 3:23 pm

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