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 Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs

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ebe



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PostSubject: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:37 am

LM "A" Playoffs at St John Tue Feb 19 to Fri Feb 22
#1 WPGA
#2 St Pat's
#3 St Johns
#4 Carver
#5 Richmond Christian
#6 Fraser

Tue Feb 19th
Game #1 Carver vs. R.C. 5:45
Game #2 St Johns vs. Fraser 7:30
Wed Feb 20th
Game #3 WPGA vs winner #1 5:45
Game #4 St Pat's vs. winner #2 7:30
Thu Feb 21
3rd place game 5:45
Championship game 7:30
Fri Feb 22
Challenge game if necessary
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:42 am

LM "AA" Playoffs at King George Tue Feb 19 to Fri Feb 22
#1 STM
#2 KG
#3 Palmer
#4 Notre Dame
#5 McRoberts
#6 Cariboo
#7 MacNeill
#8 Boyd

Tue Feb 19
2:15 KG vs MacNeill game #3
4:00 Palmer vs. Cariboo game #4
5:45 Notre Dame vs. McRoberts game #2
7:30 STM vs Boyd game #1
Wed Feb 20
5:45 winner #1 vs winner #2
7:30 winner #3 vs winner #4
Thu Feb 21
5:45 3rd place game
7:30 Championship game
Fri Feb 22
4:00 Challenge game if necessary
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:41 am

Lower Mainland "AAA" Playoffs Feb 20 & 21 at various sites & Feb 26 to Mar 1 at Kits
#1 Kits
#2 St Georges
#3 Burnaby Mountain
#4 Burnett
#5 Churchill
#6 Byrne Creek
#7 Burnaby South
#8 McMath
#9 Tupper
#10 Thompson
#11 Killarney
#12 JO

Wed Feb 20 (all games at 7:30)
Game #1 Tupper at McMath
Game #2 JO at Churchill
Game #3 Killarney at Byrne
Game #4 Thompson at Bby South
Thu Feb 21
Game #5 winner #1 at Kits (5:45)
Game #6 winner #2 at Burnett (7:30)
Game #7 winner #3 at Bby Mtn (7:30)
Game #8 winner #4 at St Georges (7:30)
Tue Feb 26 at Kits
Consolation Games - 3:00, 4:45, 6:30, & 8:15
Wed Feb 27 at Kits
Loser out games 3:00 & 4:45, Semi-Finals 6:30 & 8:15
Thu Feb 28 at Kits
Consolation games 5:45 & 7:30
Fri Mar 1 at Kits
4:00 5th/6th place, 5:45 3rd/4th place, 7:30 Championship game

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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:53 am

Mark Scott wrote:


I see the draw is out for the Lower Mainland tourney. BC #6 Kitsilano gets the number one seed over BC #5 St George's. Does anyone know how that happens? I'm not sure if it makes much difference in the end since there are five spots available for the provincials, but seems odd all the same. I assume it was a vote among the lower mainland schools. I am not giving an opinion about which team is better, just trying to understand the method of ranking teams.

The rankings for all of the Lower Mainland tournaments are done by the 4 league reps and they are done by consensus. The following factors are used to determine the seeds:
- League Finish (*note- league winners are guaranteed a top 4 seed when the tournament has more than 8 teams)
- Rankings
- Head to head match-ups
- Results against same opponents
- Strength of schedule
- Win/Loss record
- Overall performance for the entire season

Because the rankings are published weekly many people think that this is the only criteria and the assume that whomever is ranked higher gets the higher seed but as you can see there are many considerations. For example right now St Georges is ranked ahead of Kits so people assume they are the #1 seed. However if you look at the "AA" rankings right now Palmer is #5, STM is #9 and KG is #10 but STM got the #1 seed, KG the #2 seed, and Palmer the #3 seed. Obviously I would have loved to have the #1 seed but again other things are factored in to the decision. Seedings this year at all 3 levels were very tough as many teams were very close but I believe that the decisions that were made were very fair.
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:02 am

Pooch wrote:
I believe the seeding is done by the zone reps alone, not all the coaches. Not 100% sure, but I think that is the case.
I think Kits has the most talent but their recent record would not have seen objective people giving them the top seed. It appears from their win over Churchill that they may be back on track but Saints should still have been the number one seed.
Always remember that we are talking about a very disfunctional zone where logic and fairness are rarely the case.
Remember last year when their executive said no reasonable argument could be made that both VC and Saints would even be in the top five of the LM zone? They were both top five in BC and the next highest LM team was number 8 in BC. No reasonable argument could be made???? Not by dishonest types I guess.
Would Saints have hosted the semi's and finals had they been the top seed?
Kits has both, but that may have been the case before the draw was made...I don't know.
Saints are the only top seed with a really tough first game, but Kits has Churchill on their side and that could be a tough semi final for them, too.
- You are correct that the seeding is done by the league reps and it is done by consensus (everyone has to agree)
- It was a very close decision for the #1 seed and certainly an argument can be made that St Georges could have been #1 but to suggest that anyone who is objective would only find St Georges as the #1 seed is ridiculous
- Our executive DID NOT say NO last year to the Ind appeal. Our executive had nothing to do with the decision and calling us dishonest is out of line
- All AAA teams can apply to host the zone tournament but Kits was the only school that applied so that is why they are hosting.
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Fox2030



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PostSubject: Seedings   Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:39 am

Thanks for clarifying this Ebe. League results, head to head play makes sense when completeing the rankings.
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Pooch



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:27 am

Thanks Ebe.
As I stated, I didn't know how the site was determined.
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:08 pm


That makes sense Ebe. Rankings or seedings are only judgment calls, so I have no problem with Kitsilano being ranked number one based on merit. It does seem at odds with the rankings, but even those are only an opinion. The process of choosing seeds for the LM seems reasonable. Given there are five places for the provincials from the LM if you can't make it in the top five, you don't deserve to go. Kits is an excellent team and if Saints and Kits end up meeting it should be a good game.

My daughter goes to Kits and dates a player there and my son plays for St. George's so we hope for a well played game if it happens.
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MagicMan



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:51 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but the rankings that appear in the Province are opinion based from Howard plus or minus one or two consults who he may ask. The rankings in the LM and Fraser Valley tournaments are based on Coaches opinions. So it is two different data sets, therefore two different opinions. The Province has St. George's ahead of Kits, as they also have Walnut Grove ahead of WRCA. All four excellent teams and at the end of the day, it does not really matter as the LM and FV's will look after itself in terms of placings for Provincials.

To win BC's, you have to have skill and a little bit of luck along the way, and that foul call against St. George's at the end of the game vs VC may have been the "little bit of luck" that goes to a BC Champ. We will find out.
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DickVitale2013



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:20 pm

The rankings of the zones and Province are based on different rationale. The Zones rely on head to head match-ups as the #1 criteria after winning your division, not overall record or recent wins and losses. When WR lost to St. Georges they dropped a few spots as did WG when they lost early in the season to Gleneagle. During that period only WG of the top 10 has not lost any games including beating Kits and Yale so they will undoubtedly be ranked #1 in Howard's ranking, no different then how the US works. It's based on recent wins and losses. St. Georges is deservedly ranked ahead of Kits given their recent wins and Kits losses. WR got the nod over WG because they beat they twice head to head. St. Georges may have deserved the #1 seed for the LM, but it was close. The right teams are there and in the end they'll all have to play one another to decide the rankings for the Provincials.
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CoachStone21



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:13 am

Tue Feb 19
2:15 KG vs MacNeill (King George)
4:00 Palmer vs. Cariboo (Palmer)
5:45 Notre Dame 105 vs. 94 McRoberts in OT
7:30 STM vs Boyd

Winner in Brackets and sorry dont have scores for two early ones but king george coach told me who won
he also said stm is only up 8pts with 3 min to go
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:57 am

LM "AA" Playoffs at King George
Tue Feb 19
2:15 KG 72 vs MacNeill 47
4:00 Palmer 102 vs. Cariboo 59
5:45 Notre Dame 106 vs. McRoberts 96 (OT)
7:30 STM 66 vs Boyd 52
Wed Feb 20
5:45 STM vs Notre Dame
7:30 KG vs Palmer
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:00 am

LM "A" Playoffs at St John
Tue Feb 19th
Game #1 Carver 55 vs. R.C. 66
Game #2 St Johns 66 vs. Fraser 55
Wed Feb 20th
Game #3 WPGA vs R.C. 5:45
Game #4 St Pat's vs. St Johns 7:30
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:02 am

LM "AA" Playoff Semi-Finals at King George
STM 52 Notre Dame 68
King George 68 Palmer 79
- Antonio Jhuty 35 points
- Jamie Madewan 16 points, Jimmy Park 12 points & 10 assists
- Karn Mann 9 points & 9 rebounds

- Akim Zongo 20 points
- George Mija 16 points

Thu Feb 21st
3rd/4th place game STM vs. KG 5:45
Championship game Palmer vs. ND 7:30
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:08 am

"AAA" Playoffs first round
McMath 71 Tupper 59
Byrne Creek 96 Killarney 49
Bby South 84 David Thompson 74
Churchill 79 JO 42

Quarter Finals Feb 21st
McMath at Kits 5:45
Churchill at Burnett 7:30
Byrne Creek at Bby Mountain 7:30
Bby South at St. Georges 7:30
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:49 am

LM "A" Playoffs semi-finals at St John's
WPGA 76 Richmond Christian 49
St Pat's 71 St Johns 56

Thu Feb 21st
3rd/4th place game St Johns vs. Richmond Christian 5:45
Championship game WPGA vs. St Pat's 7:30
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c-lo



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:15 pm

ebe wrote:
Mark Scott wrote:


I see the draw is out for the Lower Mainland tourney. BC #6 Kitsilano gets the number one seed over BC #5 St George's. Does anyone know how that happens? I'm not sure if it makes much difference in the end since there are five spots available for the provincials, but seems odd all the same. I assume it was a vote among the lower mainland schools. I am not giving an opinion about which team is better, just trying to understand the method of ranking teams.

The rankings for all of the Lower Mainland tournaments are done by the 4 league reps and they are done by consensus. The following factors are used to determine the seeds:
- League Finish (*note- league winners are guaranteed a top 4 seed when the tournament has more than 8 teams)
- Rankings
- Head to head match-ups
- Results against same opponents
- Strength of schedule
- Win/Loss record
- Overall performance for the entire season

Because the rankings are published weekly many people think that this is the only criteria and the assume that whomever is ranked higher gets the higher seed but as you can see there are many considerations. For example right now St Georges is ranked ahead of Kits so people assume they are the #1 seed. However if you look at the "AA" rankings right now Palmer is #5, STM is #9 and KG is #10 but STM got the #1 seed, KG the #2 seed, and Palmer the #3 seed. Obviously I would have loved to have the #1 seed but again other things are factored in to the decision. Seedings this year at all 3 levels were very tough as many teams were very close but I believe that the decisions that were made were very fair.



Ebe, thanks for the providing some clarity in the rankings decision process. Was there any consideration to putting STM at #1 when they would be without Jalen Jana for the entire playoffs? I would think that his abscence would have had some impact. An easier draw may have benefitted one of the other top teams.
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:07 am

LM "A" Playoffs
3rd/4th game St Johns 83 Richmond Christian 54
Championship game WPGA 70 St Pats 53

Congrats to WPGA on winning the Lower Mainland Championship. Both WPGA and St Pats will go to the BC's
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:14 am

LM "AA" Playoffs
3rd place challenge game King George 58 STM 48
Championship game Palmer 97 Notre Dame 82
- Jamie Madewan 44 points and 23 rebounds
- Karn Mann 11 points & 20 rebounds
- Gurjit Pooni 21 points & 5 assists
- Jimmy Park 10 assists

- Aldrich Berrios 29 points

All-Star Team
- Thomas Tassone, STM
- Aldrich Berrios, Notre Dame
- Tristan Arthurs, King George
- George Mija, King George
- Antonio Jhuty, Palmer
M.V.P.
- Jamie Madewan, Palmer

Congrats to Palmer on winning the LM "AA" Championship and qualifying for the BC's in Kamloops

Notre Dame will play King George at 4:00pm on Friday Feb 22 for the 2nd berth to the BC's
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:25 am

AAA Playoff Results - Feb 21st
- Looks like we had some great games in the quarter finals of the LM AAA Playoffs
St Georges 83 Bby South 84
Bby Mountain 76 Byrne Creek 73 (OT)
Kits 71 McMath 63
Burnett 79 Churchill 80

Consolation side games Tue Feb 26th at Kits
St Georges vs Tupper 3:00
Byrne Creek vs. JO 4:45
McMath vs Killarney 6:30
Burnett vs. DT 8:15

Semi-Finals Wed Feb 27th at Kits
Kits vs. Churchill 6:30
Bby Mountain vs. Bby South 8:15
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M-5



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:07 am

Wow, anemic St Georges beats WRC, Oak Bay, VC, then drops a playoff game to unranked Burnaby South. How interesting would it be if no independent league teams make it out of the lower mainlands! I know that South has talent too and if they round into form could easily grab a provincial spot. Good thing for Saints its double knockout.
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DickVitale2013



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:12 pm

Interesting loss by St. Georges considering how they were playing and all the discussion on independent schools. Every single game was close and there were almost some other upsets. McMath and Burnett put up great fights. If 5 teams make AAA's then are all the teams on the consolation side fighting for 1 spot?
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Sim



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:14 pm

All the consolation teams still have a shot at 3rd. The draw is up on the BC Boys site. You must lose 2 to be knocked out.
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:59 pm

Congrats to King George who beat Notre Dame in the 2nd place challenge game 74 to 57. King George will be the LM #2 seed at the BC's in Kamloops
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CoachStone21



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland A, AA, & AAA Playoffs   Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:39 pm

Saints 52-19 tupper at half
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