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 AAU Ball and player entitlement

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ebe



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PostSubject: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:57 am

I think this is a great read please check it out and feel free to comment:
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=dave-telep&id=3494&src=desktop&wjb
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JLivingston



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:31 am

Lot of warning signs for our boys from this article. Whoever reporting on AAU in this forum stay away singing too much.Similarly listing top 10 players and all are purely topic of irrelevance. It doesnt do any good to their development. Drive got new writer on their behalf this year in this forum. I just hope other clubs do not start flooding this forum with mundane game results and using this forum as advertising platform. I am sorry for saying mundane but for me anything other than HS games do not excite me.
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JesusShuttlesworth



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:07 am

JLivingston wrote:
Lot of warning signs for our boys from this article. Whoever reporting on AAU in this forum stay away singing too much.Similarly listing top 10 players and all are purely topic of irrelevance. It doesnt do any good to their development. Drive got new writer on their behalf this year in this forum. I just hope other clubs do not start flooding this forum with mundane game results and using this forum as advertising platform. I am sorry for saying mundane but for me anything other than HS games do not excite me.

Haters gonna hate. I'm no fair-weather fan, I'm a "basketball" fan, unlike some who are just 'excited' about high school games, basketball goes year around and I don't stop watching or become less excited in watching the game of basketball outside of Nov. to Mar. Most of these kids all work hard and play mostly year around, and I won't stop reporting games and achievements these kids accomplish even though the 'high school' season has ended. The kids deserve recognition of their hard work all year as I have been posting scores for high school games all high school season I won't stop posting scores in the off season. Any 'bias' for a certain club is asinine as if you look back I have been posting for years on here, 300 + posts, and updating any scores that are readily available be it High School, BBC, Drive etc.
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mason2013



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:21 am

Well said Jesus...as a basketball fan, I do appreciate your input. Maybe it should be noted... that it is an assumption that you are only reporting for one club....as I do recall, you reported on BBC scores as well at the NW Premier, have any other club teams even started to play????
Perhaps Jlivingston should only read the HS ball threads as that is all you wish to follow....Close your eyes to forums CLEARLY marked Drive teams if you have no interest.... or in your own words....stay away from such forums. wow....
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M-5



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:58 am

Definitely keep posting Jesus! Personally, I don't care which club or school teams its about, the more posts about whats going on the better.
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:48 pm

Thank you Jesus for your positive contribution to basketball in BC. Without your help it would be hard to keep up with the successes of the teams in BC.

This topic started with an article about the excesses of certain elite players in the US and their undisciplined teams. It is good to know that most of the AAU-oriented teams in BC such as Drive, AllBall, Athelite, BBC and 3D don't suffer from these problems. I have seen several of these teams at length and watched the dedication, hardwork and maturity of the players.

A perfect example of the quality of players is Drive's U17 team which has developed into one of the most competitive teams in North America. The U17s beat Texas Basketball University Elite in the finals of the H-Town Classic (Houston) Platinum division (the top division) this weekend. This is the second weekend in a row that the Drive U17s have won a major US tournament. The players are dedicated, disciplined and treat the game with a lot of respect - I've seen nothing resembling the attitude displayed in that article. Congratulations to the young entrepreneurs Pasha Bains and Chad Clifford, and their team of coaches, for creating such a successful and high quality program.


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DickVitale2013



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:16 pm

Jesus, all your posts are done with consideration, respect and passion for the game. I personally wish there were more of you. I know you won't be discouraged. Please keep us updated on player and team developments this spring and summer. I do follow other sights, but look forward to your and other's positive input. Very well stated Mark, Mason, M5 and others. I'm not exactly certain of the intention of this thread, because I see no similarities in BC players as Mark has indicated. Hearing about the victories of Drive U17 should be cherished and supported by everyone as it is a significant accomplishment. I'm positive it's been noted by coaches, scouting firms, AAU circuit, BBC and Basketball Canada. Their team has many elite players not just in BC but displaying in the US as well. These tournaments had over 100 teams combined representing several States and OUR BC kids are coming out on top. It's also a tribute to all the players dedication, and HS school coaches and programs. I so recall some of these players being unfairly criticized during the AAAs, but yet exceled and now our taking their games to the next level and WILL be recognized for their efforts by Coaches, universities and organizations like Basketball Canada. People need to stop thinking that AAU ball has no relevance in today's game. For many like several Canadians like Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins, Tyler Ennis and Kyle Wiltjer it helped hone their skills, development and put them on the National radar. I'm looking forward to seeing how others and BC teams perform on the US AAU circuit and wish them all well.
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coachb



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:12 pm

Ebe found the article interesting thought the thread got a little off track though. Another excellent read is "Play their hearts out" by George Dohrmann a must read for any parent who is pursuing hoops aspirations for their child. Another good watch is the fifth estate special called fast break.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2011-2012/fastbreak/
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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:40 pm

I agree with coachb the Dohrman book is a very interesting and elightening book that I would also reccomend as a must read. The Documentary on Ro Russell was an eye opening cautionary tale to parents about educating themselves properly before making these types of decisions with regard to sending your child away to a "Prep" school. Unfotunately much AAU ball and Prep school activitiy is not that well monitored and there can be some very shady people involved. Ro Russell was considered by many to be a saviour to some youth and he also helped guide the career of some future NBA draft picks but I guess you have to ask at what price? Mr Russell ran his programs for a long period of time before he was exposed by this documentary. Tragically there are people out there who will lie and tell naive kids and parents whatever they want to hear in order to get money out of them. I think parents and kids need to go by the age old saying "that when something sounds too good to be true it probably is"
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JLivingston



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:47 pm

JesusShuttlesworth wrote:
JLivingston wrote:
Lot of warning signs for our boys from this article. Whoever reporting on AAU in this forum stay away singing too much.Similarly listing top 10 players and all are purely topic of irrelevance. It doesnt do any good to their development. Drive got new writer on their behalf this year in this forum. I just hope other clubs do not start flooding this forum with mundane game results and using this forum as advertising platform. I am sorry for saying mundane but for me anything other than HS games do not excite me.

Haters gonna hate. I'm no fair-weather fan, I'm a "basketball" fan, unlike some who are just 'excited' about high school games, basketball goes year around and I don't stop watching or become less excited in watching the game of basketball outside of Nov. to Mar. Most of these kids all work hard and play mostly year around, and I won't stop reporting games and achievements these kids accomplish even though the 'high school' season has ended. The kids deserve recognition of their hard work all year as I have been posting scores for high school games all high school season I won't stop posting scores in the off season. Any 'bias' for a certain club is asinine as if you look back I have been posting for years on here, 300 + posts, and updating any scores that are readily available be it High School, BBC, Drive etc.

hey Jesus,

Apologies man. I see now you have no leanings towards any club. When I saw your scores only for Drive, I thought something up. Keep up your good work. I am glad I am man enough to apologise.
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JesusShuttlesworth



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:15 pm

JLivingston wrote:

hey Jesus,

Apologies man. I see now you have no leanings towards any club. When I saw your scores only for Drive, I thought something up. Keep up your good work. I am glad I am man enough to apologise.

No worries, I just felt I had to defend myself from your post which makes me look bias, as you did see I updated scores for both Drive and BBC which i got from the official tournament website, and updated stats from Drive's Facebook page, I would've updated BBC stats, but they do not seem to post any stats for their players anywhere that I can find.

I am a fan of your posts and find your opinions mostly knowledgable and thought-out, but the last one seemed to come out of nowhere, I'm just trying to spread the 'basketball love' in this forum and try not to ever post any negativity and always try to pursue the postive angle on any post. Let's all just try to be the positive force all these young kids(who do read these forums) can look up to and not continue to underscore each other with any banter with negative connotations.

But, Thanks for the reply, it's much appreciated.
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Coach Yash



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:29 pm

Another recent article on ESPN about the new generation of players:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9210329/top-recruits-today-often-bring-baggage-creates-problems-even-best-coaches-college-basketball

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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:51 pm

Thanks for sharing that article Yash. I think the following quote from the article is quite true.
"blaming the kids is a lot like shooting the messenger. They are, after all, only regurgitating the banquet of ease we've fed them."
I also think Coach K hit the nail on the head with this quote:
"It used to be you were taught more than you actually played," Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said. "Now they play more than they're taught, so I think you're getting more athletic players but fewer players who understand the team concept. I don't know so much that they're divas as they are a little bit more concerned with their individual outcome than their collective outcome."
I truly believe that team concepts are being overlooked too much in the game today and there is no question that the number of games being played is far too high. Some teams on the AAU circuit play as many as 25 games in the month of July alone so when do they practice? I think a generally accepted ratio is 3:1 practice to games but this is not being done as often anymore.
The article also touches on how criticism has somehow become a bad word which I also think contributes greatly to a sort of "Diva Culture" Coaches seem to coach less as they may be afraid to correct a player because they may simply leave and go to another team. Learning how to accept criticism and use it to improve is critical to developing as both a player and a person.
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Coach Yash



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Wed May 01, 2013 12:06 am

I think with the rise in attention that BC players have been getting over the past few years with respect to the AAU circuit, the sense of being entitled will become more of an issue. While I appreciate what club basketball has brought to the province and its players as a whole, it may foster a more ego-centric environment for the players. I've seen kids that have played for a prominent club team think that they're above everyone and know everything. Not the right mentality to come in with. While it may not be overly effective, I try to bring up Kobe Bryant's work ethic so they realize that you don't get to the top without working hard.

I do agree with Tom Izzo and Coach Ebe's comment that players need to be held accountable these days for their mistakes. If 99% of the people in a kid's life are sugar coating everything then someone has to bring them back down to earth, might as well be me. May not be the right thing in some people's eyes but I tell all my players that it doesn't matter if they played Drive, allBall, BBC, 3D, etc - if you're in the gym, you're to improve so check your ego at the door.
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Training   Wed May 01, 2013 1:39 am


There really is no viable alternative to AAU-oriented basketball during the summer in BC. Every program offers roughly the same ratio of training to games. There are academy programs in the US (IMG and Impact come to mind) which offer heavy training/classroom schedules and a minimal number of games, but there's nothing like it in BC.
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coachinainteasy



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Thu May 02, 2013 12:42 pm

Interesting article and something high school coaches are having to deal with here in BC.
I think you would have to be a coach to know whether or not this phenomenon is actually happening. Are the kids coming back from the spring and summer with the attitude that they are more important than the team and with unrealistic assumptions that they are going D1?
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DickVitale2013



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Thu May 02, 2013 2:04 pm

I maybe able to shed a little perspective on this issue that this is occurring at a far lesser degree than maybe what is being perceived. If you have been following the HS scene for the past few years you know who the premier players are in the Province and many of them play Club ball as well. I believe that if you canvass their peers and coaches they will only have great things to say about them. I've read many articles over the years about the the great characters and solid student athletes that they are. Many of them are undoubtedly the best players in BC and some within top players in Canada in their age group. Several of them will be playing either CCAA, CIS and Division 1 and 2. If you are following along some have already been offered Div 1 and 2 scholarships and further are receiving a lot of interest.

In my humble opinion these players have become strong players with the combination of HS and Club coaching and their internal drive to become elite players. Some think they have a handle on what level these players will play. Wrong! No one thought Nash would be 2 time MVP nor Olynyk and Sacre NBA players except THEMSELVES! Again let's support these players and look on the positive side. What can you contribute to make them better and be proud of their accomplishments as BC and Canadian players. We've had others succeed at a high level in Div 1 like Nash, Kendall, Olynyk, Trasolini, Sacre and other current players like Hart, Bunce, Murray, Barker and Clair are trying to prove their place. There's no doubt in mind some current HS and Club players will follow suit. Almost every current American coach is aware of the elite talent in Canada. It's time our own started believing the same. Something tells me and I'm not certain why that these 16 & 17 years old will be completely different players when their 20-21, bigger, stronger, faster, and more fundamentally sound.
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coachinainteasy



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Thu May 02, 2013 4:36 pm

Appreciate your input. I'd like to hear from some of the coaches. They may or may not have a different opinion with regards to dealing high school players these days. To "follow" the high school scene is different than coaching high school basketball.
There must be close to 1000 kids playing club ball and returning to their high school programs, maybe more. Are they coming back as better players? Generally, are they difficult to coach? Why?
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DickVitale2013



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Sat May 04, 2013 1:10 am

Further to my point, please read the attached article from Northpolehoops in relation to Drive's U17 AAU club. It signifies a stellar group of players who do not represent anything associated to the articles in this thread. I don’t believe there isn’t a coach who wouldn't want any of these players on their roster.

What's very poignant is that though offensively talented they are winning by playing great defense; something I have heard criticized in the past about AAU programs. Also the player's mentioned how badly they use to get beaten, but gradually learned how to compete and beat American teams. In simplest terms this is unequivocally known as DEVELOPMENT. Many kids play Club ball, because just playing seasonal ball with their HS team won't make them better players nor will they be able to keep up with players that are. In addition there aren’t available facilities nor the coaching for a kid to train regularly on his own. Put a 15 year old in a gym all off-season by himself and I’ll tell you he won’t improve much, because he won’t possess the requisite skills, knowledge and worth ethic to improve without having a coach or mentor.

http://northpolehoops.com/2013/05/03/this-is-only-the-beginning-for-us-drive-opens-aau-circuit-with-two-milestone-tournament-victories/
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Sim



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Sat May 04, 2013 4:37 am

This entitlement argument reminds me of how our parents used to complain about our generation. Now we're doing the same thing with today's kids. Today's kids are just different. It's not just hoopsters. We live in the entitlement era.
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Lefon Jang



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Sat May 04, 2013 2:43 pm

Thus far all the talks have been about the elite players (these players don't have a problem in finding a place to play during the off season). Every club wants them. But how about the bench players? Let's look at the numbers here. Every school team has at least 12 players. The starters would generally find themselves in a club team (usually the best ones in the A team, and the rest in the B team). The bench players on the other hand usually are cut from the club teams. Many of them end up practicing on their own either in their backyards or in some community centres. No one is really serving these group of players and they're more of them then the elite players. Lots of these bench players are great athletes but not as savvy in basketball mainly because of their lack of exposure to the game during the off season.

My suggestion is that coaches (not college players) should get together and form their own club with an intention to train rather than to win. Run the system with the focus on basketball skills as well as improving the IQ of these players. I'm not saying coaches should do this for free. The system should be run as a business and coaches should be paid for coaching. But the philosophy should be different than what we have currently in place with the clubs. In addition, coaches can put these players in local tournaments to further develop them. The goal is not about winning; no players should be sitting on the bench and not getting any play times. I think many parents would be delighted to see such system in place. After all, not every parent wants to cough out a couple of thousand dollars every summer and fly their kids to Vegas. It's great that we are beating the Americans! But sometimes we have to ask who are these Americans that we're beating? They're hundreds of tournaments in Vegas every summer, and different levels of competition!
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DickVitale2013



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Sat May 04, 2013 4:05 pm

Lefong attend some of the local spring and summer tournaments at SFU and you will be surprised to see how many local teams there are involving many players. Some of the more established programs are regularly discussed because their businesses with strong players, but don't underestimate the amount of teams and coaching that is out there in the LMD, Island and Interior.

If a player desires to improve he should be getting after it. I nor you should have to motivate him/her to improve. They either have the passion or they don't. Kids that do get after it don't make excuses and overcome any obstacles. For instance, there are kids who travel hours on public transit to get to their team's practices. As well, several Clubs provide training in different tiers, which would include the group of players you are referring too.

To the contrary their aren't hundreds of tournaments during the NCAA coaches viewing periods in the Northwest or Vegas during April and July. There are a select few, some of which you have to be invited and selected to play in the Platinum Division. The fact that teams travel from across North America to attend and the gyms are lined with NCAA coaches tells you all you need to know about the level of competition and talent. Unless Andrew Wiggins reclassifies to 2014 and relocates to BC we probably won't be in the Super tournaments comprised of top players in US; however, BC kids will still compete in several top-notch events. I'm looking forward to seeing how ALL our BC teams fair in July.
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JLivingston



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Sat May 04, 2013 8:19 pm

Dvitale, I don't know how many of you aware that many HS teams don club jerseys to play spring leagues and summer leagues. Many travel down south and everywhere. Equal minutes and everybody is equally developed. They play roughly 2 games per week against other HS clubs. For them there is always basketball but in the off season ball is more geared towards skill development. These coaches are teachers and volunteers just do this for passion. There is an active off-season always going on for many programs.
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mason2013



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Mon May 06, 2013 2:42 am

I have actually come across quite a different problem with coaching when it comes to entitlement "so to speak" and that is that a few HS school coaches have already got pre-conceived ideas about these kids and the so called attitude they may or may not have because they have played club ball. They approach these kids like they need to knock them down a peg or two and instead critize way too much. I found this to be way more disturbing. Any others with similar experiences?
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JK



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PostSubject: Re: AAU Ball and player entitlement   Mon May 06, 2013 2:13 pm

mason2013 wrote:
I have actually come across quite a different problem with coaching when it comes to entitlement "so to speak" and that is that a few HS school coaches have already got pre-conceived ideas about these kids and the so called attitude they may or may not have because they have played club ball. They approach these kids like they need to knock them down a peg or two and instead critize way too much. I found this to be way more disturbing. Any others with similar experiences?


I've seen this a few times. Many of the competitive HS coaches in BC are extremely dedicated and I think the most successful ones are those who realize that for many of the club kids they share the same dedication. Basketball is something many of these kids dedicate their life to. If they weren't good kids open to learning they'd never get to where they are. In my opinion HS coaches would be better off encouraging the kids to accelerate their progress and learning rather then worrying about putting them in their place. Most of the kids take as much pride in their HS teams as they do in their club teams. Both are important.
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