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 Best U17 BC team ever?

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Mark Scott



Posts : 286
Join date : 2011-01-05

PostSubject: OBA   Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:45 pm



The new OBA schedule is a change from prior years. This year the OBA decided to use its public funding to compete with private club teams in Ontario, rather than cooperate with them on a team-by-team basis as they had done in the past (including last year). The coach of Ontario 17s, Chris Cheng, had a good relationship with clubs and the top teams such as CIA Bounce would release their players to practice during a restricted schedule (during weekdays and limited tournaments) that would allow Ontario to get its best players (who weren't playing on a National team) while allowing players to continue to practice and play with club teams. Peace generally reigned.

In a fit of ambition the OBA's new director, Michael Cvitkovic, decided to turn his back on the clubs and sign a deal with the AAU, in effect trying to compete with club programs. This decision was taken very badly by the top clubs in Ontario and they no longer release their players. It is open warfare. The Ontario team this year is made up of third and fourth tier players who could not make the top clubs, or the few elite players with family connections to the programs such as Brody Clarke whose father is an assistant with the JMNT. Given Ontario's depth, and the disarray of other provinces, they will probably still win gold at the Nationals.

Basketball BC seems to have been in the AAU game for quite some time, so it is not that they have just started competing with clubs. Clubs have arisen in response to market demand for their services. Players and parents like what they offer.

To give you a flavour of the hostility in Ontario (which I know from discussion with them is felt by CIA Bounce), here is a string of Tweets from the founder of a top club in response to the OBA's AAU foray.

Read them from the bottom up.

Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

Players in Toronto, if u really want exposure the Kings and @BounceTTCAAU are by far your best bets. NOT the OBA at all. Don't be fooled.
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

This "affiliation" with AAU is comfort to a fool. Anyone can be a member of AAU. Anyone! It means nothing. Cost 40 bucks. Don't be fooled
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

Parents do ur homework, call college coaches and ask them how many of them will be following team Ontario this year. Answer is ZERO
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

No network of coaches who follow their teams. No brand known in the US. No coaches who have played Div 1 to shed light on what's expected.
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

Kids if your goal is to play divsion one basketball, the OBA is not your answer. Period. They have no track record placing players...
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

Or the views/opinions of my players and parents. The OBA has been, continues to be a joke. Speaking out like this on @mcvitkovic and the OBA
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

Sitting back, saying noting would make me just like everyone else report the good never mention the bad, political BS in our bball community
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

The OBA. & @mcvitkovic can say otherwise, but what are they really doing for the sport in Canada? Someone tell me. They sell insurance! Lol
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

Using its not for profit status and huge banner to compete in the market place 4 players nd building teams This isn't only crazy, its wrong
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

Instead the OBA now gets into AAU, to "clean up" the sport nd get rid of guys like myself. Provide a more "legit" option. Lol
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

The facts R the OBA has never been in the business of serving its members,providing costumer service Or governing the sport @mcvitkovic
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

No 1 wants to call these people out I never understood Y, but after that conversation I totally understand the ppls frustration @mcvitkovic
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

Being told its expected ur selection committee members have a "bias" defeats the entire purpose of having a committee. Smh @mcvitkovic
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May

Another convo w/ @mcvitkovic and the OBA and I'm even more convinced they could care less the views/opinions of their members and players
Vidal Massiah Vidal Massiah ‏@Vi_Massiah 17 May


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ebe



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PostSubject: Re: Best U17 BC team ever?   Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:53 pm

Mark Scott wrote:
Last summer the U15 team only had 12 practices all summer - I doubt it was much different for the U17s. Do two-a-days if necessary.

Mark are you sure about the number of practices for U15's last summer? I checked my summer schedules from when I did U17's and in 2008 we had 23 practices and for the last Canada Games in 2009 we had 28 practices. I also checked 2011 when the nationals were 2 weeks earlier and we still managed to have 22 practices.
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: Best U17 BC team ever?   Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:03 pm

ebe wrote:
Mark Scott wrote:
Last summer the U15 team only had 12 practices all summer - I doubt it was much different for the U17s. Do two-a-days if necessary.

Mark are you sure about the number of practices for U15's last summer? I checked my summer schedules from when I did U17's and in 2008 we had 23 practices and for the last Canada Games in 2009 we had 28 practices. I also checked 2011 when the nationals were 2 weeks earlier and we still managed to have 22 practices.

Yes, I am positive that was the number going in to the summer. Drive had 14. I even provided an Outlook schedule to Ross and Mike Morgan (who was sympathetic) showing both schedules overlapping. I think both teams added a few practices along the way - I know BBC added a few. I expect (but don't know) the lower number compared with prior years is because there are fewer weekend practices because of the dominance of tournaments.
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DickVitale2013



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PostSubject: Re: Best U17 BC team ever?   Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:22 pm

It's great that statistical rationale and tweets are being used to support both sides of the argument. Looking at OBA's schedule does not change my perspective! We are discussing practice times and blurring the issues that BBC is not attracting the best players possible. Crunch the numbers and OBA has an equivalent of about 19 practices. Not a bad number for a Provincial Team to prepare for Nationals, but BBC could have done similar. They could have chosen a few weekends when top flight AAU events weren't taking place and then going with a condensed 1 week training camp (maybe even considered 2 a days). The Nationals is a tournament not a season. This would have been more than enough time to prepare and go to battle with a highly skilled team. I agree with Mark wholeheartedly that this year's contingent of the OBA are their 3rd and 4th tier players. They'll still be strong.

So Ebe, BBC and others what was once the premier event in summer amateur ball, which the top players dreamnt about playing for is now a watered-down by-product of the growth of club and AAU basketball and BBC's unwillingness to work hand-in-hand with the local club teams and/or respective families as did the previous leadership of the OBA. It seems to come down to leadership styles or whose running the show. Guarantee you if I was at the helm, the discussion threads would all be about the potential of the Provincial teams.

In another vain, how could the coaches whose ambition is to develop and mentor young men and woman in the game not want to be part of the development of these elite players. It's tragic to me that I won't see the majority of them in a BBC uniform. I enjoy watching them compete in HS andn would have cherished the moment owatching them play Ontario. Don't you think this is sad that Tomlinson and other BBC executives stood by and watched and yet try to defend their inaction with rationale that skirts around their ineffectiveness and inabilities.
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: Best U17 BC team ever?   Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:35 am

Mark Scott wrote:
ebe wrote:
Mark Scott wrote:
Last summer the U15 team only had 12 practices all summer - I doubt it was much different for the U17s. Do two-a-days if necessary.

Mark are you sure about the number of practices for U15's last summer? I checked my summer schedules from when I did U17's and in 2008 we had 23 practices and for the last Canada Games in 2009 we had 28 practices. I also checked 2011 when the nationals were 2 weeks earlier and we still managed to have 22 practices.

Yes, I am positive that was the number going in to the summer. Drive had 14. I even provided an Outlook schedule to Ross and Mike Morgan (who was sympathetic) showing both schedules overlapping. I think both teams added a few practices along the way - I know BBC added a few. I expect (but don't know) the lower number compared with prior years is because there are fewer weekend practices because of the dominance of tournaments.

There is positive and there is "positive". I double-checked the numbers and I ones I gave were to compare the schedules for similar times periods for BBC and Drive (clubs start earlier and BBC ends later). BBC U15s practiced an additional six times before Nationals after the AAU season had finished, so the numbers overall for BBC are closer to twenty. I didn't mean to mislead.

In any event, I agree with Dick Vitale's point that two weeks of intensive practices are sufficient to compete for gold most years, as long as you have the best players.
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McKay



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PostSubject: Re: Best U17 BC team ever?   Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:33 pm

I've got kids playing in both systems so I have some empathy for both sides. I'm not interested in taking a side, but thought this was worth pointing out. Unfortunately I don't see moving to the two week training camp model some people are proposing working with the calendar.

Canada Games begin August first, requiring teams to be there July 31. If you account for July 30th as a travel day, the last day of training would be Monday July 29th. Back that date back two weeks and you would start training on July 15th, the day after the first sanctioned period closes. Essentially, none of the players would be playing - for clubs or Basketball BC - in the last two periods in any of the tournaments in Vegas, LA, or Oregon.

In talking with people - parents, coaches, and players - on both sides, having the players for those July events is the primary sticking point - everyone wants to showcase their best players in the best events, which is fair enough.

Unless the dates for National Championships change I think you'd see the same issues. If you staggered the training dates to allow players to compete with other groups during the open periods you'd basically get back together for one day then try and go compete for a gold medal.


I'm not saying their isn't a better way to be found, but a two week training camp prior to nationals isn't it.


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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: Best U17 BC team ever?   Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:25 pm

McKay wrote:
I've got kids playing in both systems so I have some empathy for both sides.  I'm not interested in taking a side, but thought this was worth pointing out.  Unfortunately I don't see moving to the two week training camp model some people are proposing working with the calendar.  

Canada Games begin August first, requiring teams to be there July 31.  If you account for July 30th as a travel day, the last day of training would be Monday July 29th.  Back that date back two weeks and you would start training on July 15th, the day after the first sanctioned period closes.  Essentially, none of the players would be playing - for clubs or Basketball BC - in the last two periods in any of the tournaments in Vegas, LA, or Oregon.

In talking with people - parents, coaches, and players - on both sides, having the players for those July events is the primary sticking point - everyone wants to showcase their best players in the best events, which is fair enough.  

Unless the dates for National Championships change I think you'd see the same issues.  If you staggered the training dates to allow players to compete with other groups during the open periods you'd basically get back together for one day then try and go compete for a gold medal.


I'm not saying their isn't a better way to be found, but a two week training camp prior to nationals isn't it.  


Mark Scott wrote:

I just heard back from one of the Quebec provincial team coaches who coached last year at the Nationals.  They seem to be the only province that is now working cooperatively with their clubs. They also have elite club teams in Quebec such as Brookwood Elite.

Here is the provincial team schedule they worked out:

(1) The provincial team practices Sat/Sun twice a month from April to June (including tryouts). They shut down most of June for exams.

(2) The team is entirely inactive during any NCAA Live periods and does not practice during the week at all.

(3) There are no practices or games during July, except a one-week training camp prior to Nationals.

C'est la vie.









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