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 EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams

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BAM



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PostSubject: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:22 pm

Just looking for opinions on this new mandate by BNB. A little background first my child has been very fortunate to play on two different BNB teams, which were awesome experiences. The only issue is playing for BNB and your respective high school is an 8-9 month commitment to ball. EDP's which I am not knocking add another 8 weeks between the fall session and the spring session. If a student athlete wants a break and by pass EDP's but still has the talent to compete for a spot should they not be allowed to. I understand commitment but 8-9 months is a huge comimitment as it is. For kids who want to do the EDP program that is great but for an athlete who does not want to commit to 10-11 months should they be penalized?
My child has made their own decision not to go to EDP's so in this case one potential player will not be trying out for team NB next year due to the new mandate. I appreciate all feedback on this issue.
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hawkfan



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:22 pm

Its a load of crap
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brady12



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PostSubject: To be eligible for BNB Provincial Teams or Bantam Elite Camp, athletes must try out in the fall and participate for the duration of the EDP program.   Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:25 pm

I'll take a shot at this.  Firstly, may well be crap, certainly there is a base of experience to suggest in some regions its has been useless, primarily because the coaching was inadequate and secondly because a bunch of players chosen did not have the basic skills to ever be developed as 'elite' and actually held back players who were committed to high level development.  However the opportunity to develop elite players by high level coaches may produce better competitive results.  The question will be does NB have enough of either? On the players side I doubt it, some, just as your daughter, recognize they need a break, or need to work, others who are multi sport athletes will not be able to meet multi commitments and others will not be willing to pay especially if it was a bust in the past or has been cancelled; coaching will be a challenge, its a big commitment, many top high school coaches and university coaches have not been in the BNB mix, not certain the reason; and to suggest that there will be 5-10 quality coaches and 40-60 players (5 regions!) is a bit much.  The application process for coaches to apply seems light, experience doesn't seem to be a factor?? If this is primarily to upgrade coaching qualifications vs develop elite player skills expect negative reaction from parents and players.  BNB needs to do a better job explaining what they are trying to do as well as defining the outcomes for players and coaches.  So far BNB is selling it on the fear factor, "To be eligible for BNB Provincial Teams or Bantam Elite Camp, athletes must try out in the fall and participate for the duration of the EDP program." Furthermore, BNB website states,  "EDP will be used as a key identifier for a provincial depth chart and the 2014 Provincial Teams and Bantam Elite Camp."  Anyone know what a "key identifier for a provincial depth chart" means? Be interesting see if there will be exemptions down the road ( injury, family commitments, work, players relocating to NB after the fact, etc)  The exercise might provide BNB with a true picture of the pools, players and coaches, and enable them to make strategic decisions going forward. Good luck!
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rivhoops



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:46 am

If the main goal for BNB is to recruit the provinces' best basketball athletes I'm not sure if this is the best way to be going about it. Is it fair to ask a young kid to give up the opportunity to play fall and spring sports just to pursue basketball alone?

For most this is the time in their lives that these kids are given the first opportunity to experience fall and spring sports they may have not been able to do at a younger age (ie: Field Hockey, Rugby, Volleyball, Football ect...). As parents and coaches are we doing our kids an injustice making them choose 1 sport at such a young age and depriving them of the opportunity to play others. How are we able to tell if that child will excel in another sport if the option or opportunity is not available for them to play.

Another thing to consider is that more and more kids are working part-time. Is it fair to ask these kids to give up their jobs so they can attend all EDP sessions? Many depend on their jobs as a source of income and are saving for university because lets face it, how many kids get a free ride (or partially free ride) on by just playing basketball .

I feel, after talking to many parents recently regarding this decision of having to commit to the EDP program in order for their child to be eligible to tryout for provincial summer teams and Bantam elite programs is unfair and BNB is sending a negative message out there.

More kids (and parents) will opt to playing those fall and spring sports and take the option to play on a local club basketball team that starts up in the mid to late spring rather than commit to just the one direction BNB is offering.

Club teams are seeing more and more success from year to year. They have great quality coaches, play in all the major local summer tournaments(Summerfest, Red Rock, Bluenose, ect ..) plus even travel to play in highly competitive tournaments south of the border. The costs are more appealing to parents, the kids practice with friends and teammates because the program is local, multiple practices are held throughout the week without the requirement to travel every weekend to God knows where to practice. The pro's seem to outweigh the con's, but maybe I'm missing something???

We must remember these are kids, U17 translates to 16 years old and younger. We want kids to love to play the game, because after all how many actually go on after high school to play?

Food for thought:

Basketball and football, the most visible of high school and college sports, have a very low percentage of athletes who play in high school and then eventually move up to the professional ranks. In men’s basketball, for example, there is only a .03% chance of a pro career. This means that of the almost 156,000 male, high school senior basketball players only 44 will be drafted to play in the NBA after college, and only 32 women (.02%) out of just over 127,000 female, high school senior players will eventually be drafted. In football the odds are slightly better, with .08% or 250 of just over 317,000 high school senior players being drafted.

• 59% of high school football and basketball players believe they will get a college scholarship. • 98 out of 100 high school athletes never play collegiate sports of any kind at any level. • Less than one out of every 100 high school athletes receive a scholarship of any kind to a Division I school.

Although these statistics come from an American website, they mirror us in Canada.

EDP sessions tend to focus more on individual skill and fundamentals which is just a small piece of the player puzzle. I personally think that if BNB wants the best athletes the best thing they can do is to do their homework throughout the year by scouting potential players as they play with their school teams and keep an open a line of communication with those players coaches for background information as it is the coaches who will provide the best feedback on a player. Team coaches can fill in the blanks on a player regarding their progression, attitude, leadership, chemistry that player has within the team and their overall commitment to their program.

Don't get me wrong, EDP sessions are a great tool in developing strong basketball athletes, but strong arming the kids(and their parents) into do it sends the wrong message. Closing the door on those who are not ready to commit to 11 months of basketball will turn more away than draw in. I'm sure that a lot of highly potential players will steer away and end up choosing different routes and BNB will again struggle to draw the "best" potential to their summer programs...
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: LONG!!!!   Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:00 pm

Lots to say here too so I’ll try to address the key points. (Warning this does go on and on for quite a bit)

Let me begin by saying that if you want status quo any change is obviously going to be negative so there is no point in discussing any change if you aren’t interested.

If you are interested in having growth in our associations and elite basketball programs by enhancing curriculum, coaching, and common knowledge amongst our best potential then you need to keep making progress and changing to meet demands. What we then need to discuss is an open dialogue on how that gets accomplished while meeting needs and goals.

I’ll preface it by saying I’m pro EDP and am in favour of the way it is being rolled out by BNB. I will get into my reasons why a little later. First I will deal with the general concern.

1) Problem: BNB will not get the best athletes.

This is not shocking. BNB does not get the best athletes now. Because of financial issues, personal conflicts, choices, commitment, other sports and more reasons than I can list the best players/athletes do not always play for BNB. This is true in other provinces as well for the same reasons as NB and the proliferation of club basketball. This is why every time a Canada Basketball person walks into a gym to work with kids (or a BNB person) they stress that what they are looking for are the most committed kids. People who are self starters, love train and have the drive and urgency to do what it takes to succeed on their own and when no one is looking. The idea that making kids do EDP is bad because they won’t get the best athletes might be true but is off point. We aren’t getting or taking our best athletes now, no one is getting them all not BNB, not OBA, not BBC, not even Canada Basketball gets their best. They get the most committed and interested in doing what it takes to compete at those levels. Is this another obstacle sure, but if you want athletes to work with who are willing to overcome whatever it takes to get to high levels and want to train like ELITE Developing athletes with a Program then it seems like a good idea to get these kids and coaches working together as often as possible.

2) Problem: Kids are already playing with school teams 9 months a year.

LTAD model for kids in this age group requires extensive in sport training for long periods of the year (Junior 20-35 weeks, Senior 35-45 weeks). That is also assuming that each athlete that wants to develop is following some sort of Yearly Planning Instrument where their 52 weeks are divided up into training periods some with a focus primarily on competitive achievment (peak performance) some with team training and others with individual work in fitness areas, skill areas and recovery and recreational sports periods built in.
EDP would supplement and enhance any developing athletes skill work and teach them skills and techniques to work on to develop getting to the next level, in addition to getting the familiar with BNB and Canada Basketball expectations. The problem might be that Bantam, Midget and Juvenile aged kids are playing on teams and with coaches that are in competitive team mode 9 months a year. Saying “that BNB is wrong to be trying to do the right thing developmentally because we’ve got a model in place already that focuses too much on games and playing and not enough on development, so we can’t put in more elite athlete development . . . “ doesn’t really cut it.

3) Problem: Kids need time away from basketball or to do other things.

I couldn’t agree more. People need to make choices and decide on priorities. If you are serious about developing as a musician, athlete, student, person of faith, whatever you want to excel at you need to decide what your priorities are. How much time are you willing to invest to achieve your goals, likes, interests, passions, etc? Making EDP part of the provincial team selection criteria is not doing anything different, in fact you could argue that it is helping kids with this decision making process. Every basketball player I know would like to play on a provincial team, they also would like a Million dollars and like to never run another set of lines at basketball practice. The people that will achieve goals will be the ones who choose to organize themselves to do so. Not playing for a BNB provincial team doesn’t make you a loser, it really means that you either A) had different priorities in your life to focus on so you don’t want to go through the process B) you are willing to go through the process but haven’t as of yet put in the time or training to surpass the other people who do too. If kids want to play sports with their friends that is great. If they want to play these sports competitively instead of recreationally that is fine too. What they can’t do is play on all their school sports teams, hang out with their friends 20 hours per week outside of school, have a job, get good grades, spend time on the internet and playing video games, volunteer at local charities and train to be an elite level athlete in a particular sport. They (like everyone else on the planet) cannot have their cake and eat it too. At some point you have decide at what point you are willing to start sacrificing stuff you want to do/are interested in for stuff you are passionate about. Wanting to be a good high school basketball player is not the same as training to try to become an elite level basketball player.


I think that is the big problems addressed (to my way of thinking). Based on the assumption that no one is going to get all your best athletes so you are better off to make sure you’ve got your most committed athletes and are developing them, I’m for EDP and making it part of the criteria for playing on a provincial team. Here are some of my reasons why:

- The grind. Playing/coaching on summer provincial team is a slog. You’ve got build a team, get players to play together, put in common footwork and concepts, improve skills, install systems, get buy in to philosophies, try to prep kids for the mental and physical challenges of Nationals, get kids to train like elite athletes on their own and when they are with the group, improve fitness and toughness, deal with the mental development of athlete in terms of basketball and manage the young persons underneath the jersey. Anything that makes this easier, simpler or reduces that number of areas that coaches have to cover will help make these teams stronger. Having athletes with common footwork, knowledge, language and experience playing together before this process is benefit. Having all of your potential athletes trained in concepts and with training habits that are common and in place before a summer season starts would be a tremendous benefit. Getting your potential players together to train, talk, and develop more often has to be a good thing.

- Eliminate Coach lottery. I don’t think its fair or reasonable for athletes that have the ambition to get to higher levels to not be given the advantage of a basketball culture and opportunity to best be prepared. Why would we want a kid who thinks/hopes/aspires to be an elite athlete to be given the chance to showcase this WITHOUT FIRST vetting them to ensure they will be put in a position to be successful. Nationals, provincial teams, recruitment by college coaches/National teams, playing for provincial team coaches, etc. is not simply a product of how good a kid looks or how big their frame is. They are also interested in how a kid trains, do they have the sort of footwork or basketball concepts that they are looking for, what is their basketball IQ, do they play the style or way that translates to the next level . . . you get the point. Training to win at a middle school or high school level in NB does not always require the same skill set, methodologies or concepts to be taught as higher levels need or are looking for. Do some coaches? Yes. Do others? NO If we expect our elite athletes to know and showcase these things it is only reasonable that they are taught them and we evaluate them over time to ensure they are becoming engrained. Making sure all our provincial level athletes have these skills and baseline understandings is the purpose of EDP. No coach/program/team lottery here. This is the way NB plays, this is the way CB and BNB want their elite athletes training. We want to support and showcase the people who are doing that, we can work with you to ensure this is occurring.

- You improve the culture of basketball as a province not just at elite levels but at all levels. If you want to be an elite athlete this is the way you play and train. Kids, coaches, programs and associations that want their kids at that level start following the LTAD’s, CB curriculum’s and BNB curriculum’s that EDP and BNB use. You get more common teaching and better development. You only get what you expect. If we expect buy in you get more deeper buy in.

- You don’t get all the kids you want, but you get all the kids you need. Some athletes are yellow banana’s they develop and peak early in their careers. They look good, play well and are good players in their areas and a certain level but generally have a limited ceiling. Some kids are green banana’s they are late in developing or coming to sport. They have big upside because of athleticism or IQ but need more time to develop to reach their potential. They have a higher ceiling but are often cut away from sport sooner because the focus is on winning now not developing players who can succeed at higher levels later. EDP and making it a prerequisite to tryouts gets coaches the best of both world’s. You only get the yellowed/yellowing bananas that are willing to step outside their comfort zone and small ponds to try to work to improve, you only get the green banana’s that have the commitment and drive to become something special. Your province is now represented by the kids who: -

- most want to represent their province

- Are most committed to training to become the sort of player their province wants

- Are willing to sacrifice for the sake of their passion for basketball.

- Are committed to training at times, levels and ways commensurate with athlete development.

- Are competing when they train with the most committed coaches, players and developed programs we can find.
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Sou_by_Souwest



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PostSubject: EDP Mandatory - Yes/No   Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:33 pm

I am 100 percent in agreement with BNB for making the EDP mandatory for the senior age groups. Not in agreement for the junior ages. (It is actually against the LTAD model for the junior ages - they need time to shut down and get away from the game).

In the spring session this year, most of the sessions were on Saturday and Sunday. Sunday practices tend to have zero impact on NBIAA fall sports. The coaches were understanding in the spring on the Saturday practices when there were volleyball tournaments going on. The multi-sport challenge can be overcome. A simple conversation with the fall varsity coach telling them the athlete is entering a process to play for a provincial team in another sport and may occasionally miss a game or practice should not be a challenge. Most coaches celebrate an athlete who is trying to reach to the top in another sport.

At the ages of 14-17 BNB has the right to determine the level of commitment an athlete is willing to make. If an athlete does not want to commit the time to the game, the other kids who are putting in the time will surpass them in skills and deserve the spot on the team. One of the big gaps NB has on the national stage is playing at intensity and speed. Getting the top percentile in the province to practice together in the fall and have a competition day helps close this gap.

All this talk about kids playing club ball are better is irrelevant. Life is about showing up and daring to try out against the top percentile in their region. Kids opting out and playing club ball are avoiding this experience. This is a key component to psychological component of developing a top athlete. Lot's of people could have played on the provincial team, could have played NCAA Division I, could have gone to Harvard , etc.

My child went through the emotional roller coaster of trying out. In the end it made them a better player since they got focused on their weaknesses and realized they had to work on that part of their game if they are going to go up against the better players. It helped them understand the process of setting goals. A key component to developing players who can compete on the national U17 stage.

There are a whole mix of coaches in the EDP program. Every coach brings a unique perspective to the game. Athletes need to get use to working with different coaches. Once again a key component to the psychological component of the game. Coaches are important, but do not forget the biggest benefit is competing against the top percentile of athletes in the region. Playing 1 on 1 against a weak defender at your club or high school practice is not helping develop an athlete.

Neil Smith is working on standardizing the curriculum and the skills that are being worked on. Neil brings the intensity, passion and knowledge to the stage.


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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:51 pm

Sou_by_Souwest wrote:
I am 100 percent in agreement with BNB for making the EDP mandatory for the senior age groups. Not in agreement for the junior ages.  (It is actually against the LTAD model for the junior ages - they need time to shut down and get away from the game).

In the spring session this year, most of the sessions were on Saturday and Sunday. Sunday practices tend to have zero impact on NBIAA fall sports. The coaches were understanding in the spring on the Saturday practices when there were volleyball tournaments going on.  The multi-sport challenge can be overcome. A simple conversation with the fall varsity coach telling them the athlete is entering a process to play for a provincial team in another sport and may occasionally miss a game or practice should not be a challenge. Most coaches celebrate an athlete who is trying to reach to the top in another sport.

At the ages of 14-17 BNB has the right to determine the level of commitment  an athlete is willing to make. If an athlete does not want to commit the time to the game, the other kids who are putting in the time will surpass them in skills and deserve the spot on the team. One of the big gaps NB has on the national stage is playing at intensity and speed. Getting the top percentile in the province to practice together in the fall and have a competition day helps close this gap.

All this talk about kids playing club ball are better is irrelevant. Life is about showing up and daring to try out against the top percentile in their region. Kids opting out and playing club ball are avoiding this experience. This is a key component to psychological component of developing a top athlete. Lot's of people could have played on the provincial team, could have played NCAA Division I, could have gone to Harvard , etc.  

My child went through the emotional roller coaster of trying out. In the end it made them a better player since they got focused on their weaknesses and realized they had to work on that part of their game if they are going to go up against the better players. It helped them understand the process of setting goals. A key component to developing players who can compete on the national U17 stage.

There are a whole mix of coaches in the EDP program. Every coach brings a unique perspective to the game. Athletes need to get use to working with different coaches. Once again a key component to the psychological component of the game. Coaches are important, but do not forget the biggest benefit is competing against the top percentile of athletes in the region. Playing 1 on 1 against a weak defender at your club or high school practice is not helping develop an athlete.

Neil Smith is working on standardizing the curriculum and the skills that are being worked on. Neil brings the intensity, passion and knowledge to the stage.  


I agree with most of what is being said here. Again I do not think that EDP for Juniors goes against LTAD .I think things like EDP are important at that age the problem is 6 months of Bantam, MS, U13/U14 age class with EDP added. I think Middle School aged athletes in NB play too many basketball games over too prolonged a period.

Talking/debating/discussing club ball is pretty fruitless. Club ball needs to exist for kids and lots of reasons. We can only hope that if as a community of basketball we start creating an NB unique culture and system that those common goals will see club and BNB elite teams supporting each other and co-existing.
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Sou_by_Souwest



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PostSubject: Club Ball   Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:11 pm

I think club ball is awesome. My point is a coach presenting club ball to a potential provincial team athlete as a better alternative to their development is not in the best interest of the athlete.

As coaches we must help the athlete reach their potential. Helping to support them through what can be an intimidating process of their first challenging try out is part of helping them realize their potential.

The financial burden of provincial ball is something we all need to work on. I know when an athlete makes a provincial team there are many companies and local charities that will chip in and help out an athlete. Putting a bit of formality around this process can help ease parents concern about the cost before the try outs begin.
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Trailblazer



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:42 pm

I find all of the opinions here very interesting and I think that if EDP is to be mandatory then just like someone above said you will get your most committed kids just not your best kids. The problem with that is that in a small province you have some very good basketball players who also play at a high level in other sports. I refuse to believe that the BNB coaches are willing to turn their back on such a player because they did not go to EDP. I can speak of a situation this year where a player was offered a spot on the Canada games team and had not participated in any EDP or any try out or any BNB anything. Which player who showed commitment loses their spot for this to happen.

Kids want to represent their province if it means something and it should mean I'm one of the 12 best in my province
A kid who gets turned away from BNB because they have other commitments is left with a sour taste in mouth and then wants nothing to do with the program in future opportunities, speaks poorly to younger kids , and will look for opportunities to compete with BNB
It's a scary road we go down when that happens in my opinion

All in all I don't have all the answers but I do know athletes who won't be at EDP who would be u17 players
And it will be interesting to see how it plays out because I know the coaches want them on the roster
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Sou_by_Souwest



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PostSubject: Middle Ground   Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:53 pm

Pick the core provincial team 8-10 players in the fall. These committed players have the winter to be mentored by the provincial team coaches.

Leave 2-4 spots open for walk on tryouts in the spring. This is essentially how a university team operates. They know there core long before the season starts and have maybe 1-2 spots open at tryouts. A multi-sport athlete that is truly blessed with talent has a back door. The committed kids have a higher probability of success. Rewards both types of athletes.
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hawkfan



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:01 pm

Sou_by_Souwest wrote:
Pick the core provincial team 8-10 players in the fall. These committed players have the winter to be mentored by the provincial team coaches.

Leave 2-4 spots open for walk on tryouts in the spring. This is essentially how a university team operates. They know there core long before the season starts and have maybe 1-2 spots open at tryouts. A multi-sport athlete that is truly blessed with talent has a back door. The committed kids have a higher probability of success. Rewards both types of athletes.

I think this is probably the scenario that will end up playing out I would think but who knows.
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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:36 pm

I read a quote from Dom Meyer the other day and it made me think of some of the comments on this message thread, especially those about whether elite basketball players should be given time off to pursue other interestes. It read..."You can have anything you want, just not everything you want."
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brady12



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PostSubject: ..."You can have anything you want, just not everything you want."   Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:16 pm

I agree completely, and this applies to players, coaches and organizations ie BNB- have to decide, you cannot be all things to all people.
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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:55 pm

Hardfouls wrote:
I read a quote from Dom Meyer the other day and it made me think of some of the comments on this message thread, especially those about whether elite basketball players should be given time off to pursue other interestes. It read..."You can have anything you want, just not everything you want."
No I don't think so. Where there is a will there is a way
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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:01 pm

BNB is loosing end of story. How many elite ATHLETES not basketball players have played on previous teams. If you told them they had to give up there provincial championship or there chance at one to play BNB how many do you think would have played ?? Not many I bet. So I guess BNB gets the elite BASKETBALL players and club teams will get the elite ATHLETES. I wonder if dedication and commitment will beat pure athleticism I guess we are gonna find out.
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Coach.Red



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:20 pm

Updated today on the EDP page:

To be considered for BNB Provincial Teams or Bantam Elite Camp, athletes are strongly recommended to try out in the fall and participate for the duration of the program*
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sidebyside



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:41 pm

BNB is for players that can afford it and not for the players that are the best in the province.

How many NBIAA Allstars play provincial basketball ?
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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:05 pm

sidebyside wrote:
BNB is for players that can afford it and not for the players that are the best in the province.

How many NBIAA Allstars play provincial basketball ?
Keeping any program (house league, age class, school, club, provincial team) affordable for everyone is challenging. Most associations, including BNB, have policies in place to insure no one will be denied participation because of their financial situation. I also know from first hand experience that there are many local businesses and service clubs that will also sponsor players who are selected.

As for NBIAA All Stars this is a very unfair comparison. The NBIAA All Star selection process restricts the number of players from each class and each region. Being an NBIAA All Star is a great accomplishment but does not mean those are the top 30 players in the province. For example Ben Cripps was not selected as an All Star last year. He received votes but ended up out of the top 5 in the South/West AAA. I think it's fair to say Ben was one of the top 30 players in the province last school season and I'm sure the university/college coaches that scouted him throughout the season would agree.

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hawkfan



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:33 pm

Hardfouls wrote:
sidebyside wrote:
BNB is for players that can afford it and not for the players that are the best in the province.

How many NBIAA Allstars play provincial basketball ?
Keeping any program (house league, age class, school, club, provincial team) affordable for everyone is challenging. Most associations, including BNB, have policies in place to insure no one will be denied participation because of their financial situation. I also know from first hand experience that there are many local businesses and service clubs that will also sponsor players who are selected.

As for NBIAA All Stars this is a very unfair comparison. The NBIAA All Star selection process restricts the number of players from each class and each region. Being an NBIAA All Star is a great accomplishment but does not mean those are the top 30 players in the province. For example Ben Cripps was not selected as an All Star last year. He received votes but ended up out of the top 5 in the South/West AAA. I think it's fair to say Ben was one of the top 30 players in the province last school season and I'm sure the university/college coaches that scouted him throughout the season would agree.

No parent is going to send there child to a tryout they cannot afford to pay for themselves. Regardless of what is supposedly in place it is still way to much for summer basketball.
I don't think he was saying the 30 best players are NBIAA allstars but it is a pretty good snapshot of the players in this province at least according to the coaches they played against. Anyone know how many of them played BNB
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Hardfouls



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:47 pm

I'm not sure about all of last year's all stars but here is the list. I've put a "Yes" beside the ones that played for a BNB at least once. The ones that do not have a "yes" might have but I'm not sure. That means at least 16 of the 30.

A Northeast Boys
Jeremiah Branscombe (Petitcodiac)
Peter Fenton (Caledonia)
Andromar Lubin (Carrefour Beausoleil)
Luke Nelson (Caledonia)
Brady Oakes (Dalhousie)

A Southwest Boys
Sam Drummond (Harvey) - Yes
Zachary Foster (Hartland) - Yes
Nick Kitchen (Harvey)
Caleb Orser (Hartland) - Yes
Zach Pothier (Grand Manan) - Yes

AA Northeast Boys
Nick Boyd (Tantramar)
Brad Gallant (Sugarloaf)
Jason Johnson (Tantramar)
Isaiah Reid (JMA Armstrong)
Anthony Soloman (JMA Armstrong)

AA Southwest Boys
Nathaniel Burlock (Woodstock)
Oliver Ebbett (Carleton North)
Devin Elsemore (St. Stephen)
Keegan Gray (Woodstock) - Yes
Dan McShane (St. Stephen) - Yes

AAA Northeast Boys
Nolan Levy (James M Hill)
Kyle McCluskey (Riverview) - Yes
Kyle Rogers (Moncton) - Yes
Andrew Ryder (Moncton) - Yes
Morgan Tatlock (Bernice MacNaughton) - Yes

AAA Southwest Boys
Alex Carty (Fredericton) - Yes
Sawyer Eddy (Fredericton) - Yes
Erik Nissen (Kennebecasis Valley) - Yes
Evan Roberts (Simonds) - Yes
Josh Whalen (Leo Hayes) - Yes
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BAM



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:49 pm

Assuming with BNB changing the wording from mandatory to strongly recommended they obviously received negative feedback on the original stance. Regardless strongly recommended is a fair statement and is a better policy then it being mandatory. That leaves the coaches/selection committee the option to make an exception if justified.
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rivhoops



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:32 am

There must be some problems with getting individuals to sign up for the EDP program if the wording was changed. Also I noticed on the BNB site stated that August 31st deadline was removed.

I think the damage has been done for this year even with the new update. Even the new wording doesn't leave a warm fuzzy welcoming feeling to it. "To be considered for BNB Provincial Teams or Bantam Elite Camp, athletes are strongly recommended to try out in the fall and participate for the duration of the program*. " And if you go to the fine print at the bottom of the paragraph it goes on to state: *Athletes who are not available to participate in EDP (fall & spring) due to personal reasons may be required to submit an application form to be eligible for provincial team tryouts."

It still translates "you don't play now you don't play later for us" to me.

I still think the program itself is great for any individual to take advantage of to work on their personal game and strengthen their fundamentals and players should be involved if all they want to do is play basketball. Plus BNB will only select the highest level of elite coaches to run this program from the pool of applicants they receive. Hey where else can you get 12-18hrs of training and a competition day or two for $200 bucks right?
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sidebyside



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:38 am

EDP is a great program, however i have seen first hand that there is still a lot of politics involved. My child paid and tried out and made the EDP program and half way through the program other players were brought in whom never even tried out. Therefore the numbers were increased which led to less one to one time.
As for the BNB summer programs, it is not only the registration fee but it is also the travel to practices and games. It is significant travel when you live in Campbellton, Bathurst, Grand Manan or Grand Falls and have to travel to either Fredericton or St. John every week-end. It is a provincial program and should be made adaptable to all parts of the province. That is why the majority of the players are from Fredericton or St. John.

The NBIAA allstar list is selected by coaches who have seen these players perform and should be used as a indicator when it comes to BNB selection.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:11 pm

sidebyside wrote:
EDP is a great program, however i have seen first hand that there is still a lot of politics involved.  My child paid and tried out and made the EDP program and half way through the program other players were brought in whom never even tried out. Therefore the numbers were increased which led to less one to one time.
As for the BNB summer programs, it is not only the registration fee but it is also the travel to practices and games.  It is significant travel when you live in Campbellton, Bathurst, Grand Manan or Grand Falls and have to travel to either Fredericton or St. John every week-end. It is a provincial program and should be made adaptable to all parts of the province. That is why the majority of the players are from Fredericton or St. John.

The NBIAA allstar list is selected by coaches who have seen these players perform and should be used as a indicator when it comes to BNB selection.
There is significant travel in some cases. I can tell you that having worked with provincial teams that in the last three year's the teams I've worked with have trained in Fredericton once maybe twice and I don't know if we've ever trained in Saint John. We have trained in Woodstock, Hartland, Miramchi, St. George, Sussex, Moncton, KV and lots of other places in NB. We try to move around so every kid gets a chance to host or spend one weekend at home, but no matter where you go you have to have other kids travelling. Generally for billetting its easier to have kids stay where there are more kids/houses to share the load. I think you have it backwards more kids from Fredericton and SJ areas are making the teams so they end up having more practices in those locals to reduce travel costs and overnight costs for more people. This year we had 3 Carleton County kids and 3 Sussex kids so we spent most of our training time in Woodstock and Sussex.

This NBIAA all star conversation as part of BNB selection process needs to end as its ridiculous. In order:

1) There is a cap on nubmer of players per region/conference and level. So you get a load of A and often AA allstars from all over the province that are "allstars" at their level in their conference but not always provincial calibre players, while there are players who can't get mentioned because of the depth of talent in their pools. If the best player in the NE A boys is a 10th grader from place X and no 10th graders from AAA SW boys get nominated because of the skill of the 11-12th grade players in that league, does that mean that the kid from NE is one of the best u15 aged players in the province. NO. The best kid playing JV at FHS/KVHS is often as good if not better then kids getting picked as allstars from A and AA schools. So at tryouts the better kid should get no credit because they come from a deeper stronger program and couldn't get an allstar nomination, while the weaker player gets a star by their name of bonus scores in the metric because they are the best player in a smaller region or weaker pool? That doesn't make sense.

2) The selection process is made by coaches for whatever reasons or criteria they see fit. The can reward seniors with picks, people who played or played well against them, they can put the names in a hat and shake out ones that they want. The is no measurement tool that says this kid gets my allstar votes and this kid doesn't becacuse of ability. There are no metrics or data involved beyond the opinions of voting coaches.

3) The coaches who make the all star selections may not have any connection at all to BNB, Canada Basketball, elite athlete development and up until this year needed no coaching credentials at all. This year they need to have the NBIAA certification course which is basically being familiar with the NBIAA handbook. The knowledge base of all these coaches combined is wide, varied and not often related to training elite athletes. How would the average of all those opinions on who is a good player in their league = player is who ready/has potential to play at Nationals. I'm not bad mouthing high school coaches some of whom are great, some of whom may not be but its unrelated. Not in all cases but in enough to make it invalid. Its like saying lets take everyone who likes chocolate bars and let them run a chocolate bar factory. No you get people with buisness degrees, and properly culinary training/ factory management skills to make those decisions.



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hawkfan



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PostSubject: Re: EDP mandatory to try out for BNB Provincial Teams   Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:38 pm

CoachDJR wrote:
sidebyside wrote:
EDP is a great program, however i have seen first hand that there is still a lot of politics involved.  My child paid and tried out and made the EDP program and half way through the program other players were brought in whom never even tried out. Therefore the numbers were increased which led to less one to one time.
As for the BNB summer programs, it is not only the registration fee but it is also the travel to practices and games.  It is significant travel when you live in Campbellton, Bathurst, Grand Manan or Grand Falls and have to travel to either Fredericton or St. John every week-end. It is a provincial program and should be made adaptable to all parts of the province. That is why the majority of the players are from Fredericton or St. John.

The NBIAA allstar list is selected by coaches who have seen these players perform and should be used as a indicator when it comes to BNB selection.
There is significant travel in some cases. I can tell you that having worked with provincial teams that in the last three year's the teams I've worked with have trained in Fredericton once maybe twice and I don't know if we've ever trained in Saint John. We have trained in Woodstock, Hartland, Miramchi, St. George, Sussex, Moncton, KV and lots of other places in NB. We try to move around so every kid gets a chance to host or spend one weekend at home, but no matter where you go you have to have other kids travelling. Generally for billetting its easier to have kids stay where there are more kids/houses to share the load. I think you have it backwards more kids from Fredericton and SJ areas are making the teams so they end up having more practices in those locals to reduce travel costs and overnight costs for more people. This year we had 3 Carleton County kids and 3 Sussex kids so we spent most of our training time in Woodstock and Sussex.


I


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