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 AAA Provincials

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snaked



Posts : 57
Join date : 2009-11-21

PostSubject: AAA Provincials   Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:41 pm

They should give the FV 6.5 berths and the OK 1.5. The seventh place team from the FV and the second place team from the OK should play a challenge game for a final berth. The past few years, and it will continue to be this way, the AAA Okanagan region could have two representatives at AAAs who would do quite well. Look at this year, Boucherie and South Kamloops are both in the top 10. AAA OK ball is getting a lot better, and it will not drop off in years to come. Next year Kelowna will be quite strong, South Kam will be, and Boucherie will be decent.

However, I assume berths are given out based on how many AAA schools per region?
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bcballin



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PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:16 pm

I like this idea and think they should look at a new rule for this next year.
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coachb



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PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:36 pm

Berths are based on simple math. More schools more berths. Not a perfect system but it works.
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stocktonsshorts



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PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:43 pm

North Shore had 8-9 teams and got 2 berths.... let them play the Okanagan for that berth. Fraser valley had 46 teams and 4 of the top 5 finsihers were from the valley.
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bcballin



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PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:47 pm

Yeah but shouldn't the better team be at provincials?
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okanaganbball



Posts : 428
Join date : 2010-02-22
Location : The Okanagan

PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:40 pm

4 of the top 5 being from the Valley is fine, but the rest of the Valley teams did not place. Carson Graham did, the second team off the shore. Boucherie probably would have based on results from this season. You can't look at results at provincials for berths though.

As someone pointed out, it's math. Well the Okanagan is getting 1 more AAA team next year. That gives 8 teams. Close to North Shore if not the same. Give the Okanagan another .5 berth and take one away from FV or something like that.

Here is what the "math" looks like right now:

108 teams, 17 berths (because of the berths from Kootenays, North West, North Central not being included), 6.353 teams/berth


Lower Mainland
28 teams
4.407 berths

Fraser Valley
47 teams
7.398

Vancouver Island
17 teams
2.676

Okanagan
7 teams
1.102

Howe Sound
9 teams
1.417

Next year

110 (adding RC Palmer and the extra team from Okanagan, any other teams going AAA or dropping out?) teams, 17 berths (because of the berths from Kootenays, North West, North Central not being included), 6.471 teams/berth


Lower Mainland
29 teams
4.482 berths

Fraser Valley
47 teams
7.263 berths

Vancouver Island
17 teams
2.627 berths

Okanagan
8 teams
1.236

Howe Sound
9 teams
1.391
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Underdog2010



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PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:15 pm

okanaganbball wrote:
4 of the top 5 being from the Valley is fine, but the rest of the Valley teams did not place. Carson Graham did, the second team off the shore....
The 9th place finish at the AAA Provincials is a joke, as it comes from the losers of the first day games between the 8 lowest seeds. This year that was Carson Graham and Mount Baker, Calendonia and North Peace (the "politically correct" or automatic berths from the Kootenays, North West and North Central).

Carson lost their first game to Cowichan (#17 seed) by 28 points. They then went on to beat Calendonia, North Peace and Calendonia again to get 9th place.

The real 9th place teams were Oak Bay and Argyle (these teams should have played a fourth game for 9th/10th or 9th/11th).

The real 11th place teams were Byrne Creek and Clayton Heights (these teams should have played a fourth game for 11th/12th or 10th/12th).

The real 13th place teams were Dover Bay, Cowichan, Walnut Grove and Delta.

Any team in that losers bracket after the opening day play-in games should not be able to place higher than 17th, which is what Carson Graham deserved to finish.

The seedings at the Provincials have to mean more than which teams play each other in the opening round(s).
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okanaganbball



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Join date : 2010-02-22
Location : The Okanagan

PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:43 am

okanaganbball wrote:
4 of the top 5 being from the Valley is fine, but the rest of the Valley teams did not place. Carson Graham did, the second team off the shore. Boucherie probably would have based on results from this season. You can't look at results at provincials for berths though.

As someone pointed out, it's math. Well the Okanagan is getting 1 more AAA team next year. That gives 8 teams. Close to North Shore if not the same. Give the Okanagan another .5 berth and take one away from FV or something like that.

Here is what the "math" looks like right now:

108 teams, 17 berths (because of the berths from Kootenays, North West, North Central not being included), 6.353 teams/berth


Lower Mainland
28 teams
4.407 berths

Fraser Valley
47 teams
7.398

Vancouver Island
17 teams
2.676

Okanagan
7 teams
1.102

Howe Sound
9 teams
1.417

Next year

110 (adding RC Palmer and the extra team from Okanagan, any other teams going AAA or dropping out?) teams, 17 berths (because of the berths from Kootenays, North West, North Central not being included), 6.471 teams/berth


Lower Mainland
29 teams
4.482 berths

Fraser Valley
47 teams
7.263 berths

Vancouver Island
17 teams
2.627 berths

Okanagan
8 teams
1.236

Howe Sound
9 teams
1.391

When I look at what I posted...they should give 1.5 berths each to the Howe Sound and the Okanagan. Have a play-in game for them. That would be quite cool.
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#10



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Join date : 2010-03-21

PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:40 am

Underdog2010 wrote:
okanaganbball wrote:
4 of the top 5 being from the Valley is fine, but the rest of the Valley teams did not place. Carson Graham did, the second team off the shore....
The 9th place finish at the AAA Provincials is a joke, as it comes from the losers of the first day games between the 8 lowest seeds. This year that was Carson Graham and Mount Baker, Calendonia and North Peace (the "politically correct" or automatic berths from the Kootenays, North West and North Central).

Carson lost their first game to Cowichan (#17 seed) by 28 points. They then went on to beat Calendonia, North Peace and Calendonia again to get 9th place.

The real 9th place teams were Oak Bay and Argyle (these teams should have played a fourth game for 9th/10th or 9th/11th).

The real 11th place teams were Byrne Creek and Clayton Heights (these teams should have played a fourth game for 11th/12th or 10th/12th).

The real 13th place teams were Dover Bay, Cowichan, Walnut Grove and Delta.

Any team in that losers bracket after the opening day play-in games should not be able to place higher than 17th, which is what Carson Graham deserved to finish.

The seedings at the Provincials have to mean more than which teams play each other in the opening round(s).

Totally agree with you, I watched both Argyle and Carson play a few times this season, and there wasn't any question who the better team was, however according to the Provincial tournament rankings, Argyle gets credit as a participant and Carson is credited with 9th..

The thing is that Argyle beat Charles Tupper in the first round, but Tupper ends up ranking 6th, which to me doesn't make any sense.

Does anyone know why the tournament doesn't take into account the opponents and just if it was a win or a loss? Is it because there isn't enough time to fit these extra games in?

The rankings should have been like this:
Yale
WRCA
VC
Pitt
Terry Fox
South Kamloops
Oak Bay/Argyle (7 or Cool
Tupper
Burnaby South
Byrne Creek/Clayton Heights (11 or 12)
Delta/Dover Bay/Cowichan/Walnut Grove
Carson
Caledonia
North Peace
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BBall Fan



Posts : 46
Join date : 2009-11-18

PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:58 am

coachb wrote:
Berths are based on simple math. More schools more berths. Not a perfect system but it works.

Exactly. However, to tweak the process, and also to appease those who feel they weren't given a proper chance, like St George's and Mt Boucherie this year, what I would suggest is expanding the tournament.

We already have the extra day of games for play-ins on Tuesday, why not expand the tournament to 24 teams from 20. However, rather than give the extra berths to particular zones, why not make them like the NCAA's, in that the last 4 berths are determined by a committee. These could be wildcard berths, so that teams that have a one game slipup somewhere can still make the tourney.

Examples would be like St. George's and Mt Boucherie this year, both teams being ranked most of the season. Kits is another example.

Another example would be Handsworth a few years ago, when Rob Sacre was in his last year, and Handsworth lost out to Argyle.

If the tournament was to include 4 wild card teams, then, with 24 teams, there would be 8 games on Tuesday, seeds 9 through 24. The losers from those games, 8 teams, would then play out from Thursday to Saturday, at Windemere, for placings 17 - 24. No more lose on the first day and still place 9th.

The winners from Tuesday's games would then play the top 8 seeds on Wednesday. This would give more importance to being a top 8 seed. Again, the losers from Wednesday would play the rest of the days in their own bracket, but the highest any team could then finish would be 9th.

The winners from Wednesday would then again play through to Saturday, as it is now, with the placings being 1st through 8th.

This way, a team that had one bad game, or a team in a zone with only 1 berth, but a team that has outstanding talent 1 particular year, can still have a chance to show what they can do.

St. George's, with Emerson, not having the chance to repeat, just didn't feel right to a lot of people. Myself included.

Of course, this will never happen, it just makes too much sense. But when you think about it, shouldn't we want the best teams at the Provincials, as well as representation from all areas.


Last edited by BBall Fan on Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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stocktonsshorts



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PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:47 pm

Bball fan I like your idea of tournament expansion.

Like the NCAA's we would have 4 "at large" teams added to the draw. I think that these teams though would have to play on the first day based on not qualifying through zone play.

This year St. Georges, Kitsilano, Boucherie, and either Mouat or Fleetwood would have been a good addition to the tourney.
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BBall Fan



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Join date : 2009-11-18

PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:39 pm

stocktonsshorts wrote:
Bball fan I like your idea of tournament expansion.

Like the NCAA's we would have 4 "at large" teams added to the draw. I think that these teams though would have to play on the first day based on not qualifying through zone play.

This year St. Georges, Kitsilano, Boucherie, and either Mouat or Fleetwood would have been a good addition to the tourney.

Oh, I agree, they would be in the lower 3rd of 8 seeds. I meant to include that in my post, must have missed it, but thanks for also making the point.
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FromThree



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Join date : 2010-01-07

PostSubject: Re: AAA Provincials   Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:21 pm

[quote="BBall Fan"]
coachb wrote:


Another example would be Handsworth a few years ago, when Rob Sacre was in his last year, and Handsworth lost out to Argyle.



Point of information - Handsworth and Rob Sacre were upset by West Vancouver, not Argyle, in Rob's last year.
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