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 3 person crews

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CoachDJR



Posts : 736
Join date : 2010-01-22
Location : Southern NB

PostSubject: 3 person crews   Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:07 am

I've had this conversation with a couple of people off line and thought I would put it online and see what response it got.

Now let me preface this by stating I understand there would be logistical hurdles which in reality might be the obstacle that couldn't be overcome but at least as a discussion: Do you think that high school basketball or some levels/games in high school basketball would be better served by having 3 person officiating crews?

The logistical concerns that would have to overcome if this were even to be endorsed are obviously increased costs, numbers of officials and increased officials training. Huge obstacles in some cases/areas.

My thought process is this. I've been lucky enough to play in a see many more higher quality level basketball games in NB this year then in years past during basketball season. The boys games, especially the high end AA and AAA boys teams are physical, fast; the pace is often frenetic and played basically out of breakdowns and creativity with the ball which is more difficult to anticipate. In any level of phsyical game I also see a lot of clutching and grabbing going on off the ball. I haven't got a problem with physical play but a lot of this is not players moving their feet or using their bodies its just holding and grabbing for the sake of holding and grabbing. I also don't know if anyone anywhere can/does teach/set legal screens anymore.

2 person officiating crews have inherent weaknesses with the larger coverage areas which tends to lead to missing more off ball contact, getting screened/ cut off more, as well as things like pass and crashes where responsibility switches quickly as the ball moves. Add this to the pace of play and an aging officiating demographic, just wondering if there are situations or levels of basketball for high school in NB that are ready or would benefit from 3 person officiating crews.
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rivhoops



Posts : 111
Join date : 2013-08-24

PostSubject: Re: 3 person crews   Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:54 pm

There has been on many occasions while sitting in the stands watching games I would say to myself " how the hell did they miss that call???" but life goes on and as long as the missed calls go both ways it's a non issue especially in exhibition games. It's the big games that matters and that extra official would be a great addition.

DJR is very correct in stating that some of the main hurdles are with the logistics of having enough referees to accommodate the 3 official, this fix is something that just doesn't happen over night, in fact in all honesty could take years to bring in enough trained officials to accommodate the demand.

The other factor of paying for that 3rd referee can impact a teams bottom line drastically especially with the fee increases over the next 2 years it will run a team $150 just to cover the costs of these officials, plus take into consideration fees for the scorers table this becomes quite pricy for high school bball.

I think the best way to see if there is a real need for the 3rd official is to introduce them gradually. Start with regionals, sectionals and conference finals along with the year end Championship tournament. If it proves to be a possible game changer then follow it up the next season by including it in tournament medal games and regular season league games, and finally exhibition and tournament round robin games in a few years to allow teams to adjust to the extra costs and for the officials to build on their numbers to accommodate the demand.

As far as age class ball, things can remain with the status quo with the exception of Juvenille and above.
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observer



Posts : 56
Join date : 2011-12-21

PostSubject: Re: 3 person crews   Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:11 am

I would have to think that the biggest drawback to 3 person crews would be the cost. Right now it would be an extra $40 per game, with that increasing as officiating fees go up.

As far as training goes, right now the only officials comfortable with the three man system would be those who officiate at the ACAA or AUS levels where they use the system. I don't think you would want to institute a three man system for regionals or sectionals as this would limit your pool of available referees. If it was going to happen in high school it would need to take place all year so that officials would be comfortable in the tree man crew.

Available officials would be the other concern. Areas such as St. Stephen and Woodstock are already short on numbers of officials and adding a third official could stretch them thin.
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BumptheCutter



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PostSubject: Re: 3 person crews   Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:27 pm

I would start with 3 trained minor officials first. Instead of having Sally running the score clock checking out Facebook on her IPhone, Billy tweeting his girlfriend, while trying to keep track of the game sheet and don't forget Jasmine who is supposed to be running the shot clock making googly eyes at the cute point guard she just met. We need trained adults running the scorer's tables especially during regional and sectional games....every year we run into incidents caused by kids that have not been trained properly. Some schools are great while others make you wonder what the hell.....have you done a basketball game before???
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C-N '06-'09



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PostSubject: Re: 3 person crews   Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:45 pm

BumptheCutter wrote:
I would start with 3 trained minor officials first. Instead of having Sally running the score clock checking out Facebook on her IPhone, Billy tweeting his girlfriend, while trying to keep track of the game sheet and don't forget Jasmine who is supposed to be running the shot clock making googly eyes at the cute point guard she just met. We need trained adults running the scorer's tables especially during regional and sectional games....every year we run into incidents caused by kids that have not been trained properly. Some schools are great while others make you wonder what the hell.....have you done a basketball game before???

Minor officials is definitely an issue, but one that each school needs to find an answer to. For instance, having adults run the score clock at the school I coach at would not help the situation, but at the same time we struggle to find students who are up to the task. We ran a training session at the beginning of the year and had either our AD or myself stand at the table with the students for their first game. The other problem we have is numbers. Larger school probably don't have as big of an issue as smaller schools finding quality minor officials. We have had to resort to training middle school students this year because %50 percent of the high school is playing basketball. As a coach, I hate having my players run the score clock when they play the next game. The best solution that has worked for us, which all schools should be able to do if hosting Regionals or Sections, is having someone that knows what they are doing supervise the students and paying as much attention to the game as they are. This way, students are still trained, but mistakes can be caught.
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BumptheCutter



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PostSubject: Re: 3 person crews   Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:17 pm

I couldn't agree more with you CN. It is a big issue at some schools....I feel bad for some of these kids especially the middle school ones who get hollered, heckled at and cursed at by some fans and coaches for making a mistake. NBIAA should mandate supervisors for the big games such as regionals and sectionals. Maybe that should be the AD's job....make sure someone (if not them, then someone who is competent is there) to ensure problems are dealt with when they arise. Most of these kids volunteer, some places pay them...but to me it's not fair to put these kids in a situation where no one has their back! The refereees do the best they can but once the game resumes....they are on there own again. Maybe more kids would be interested in minor officiating if they weren't thrown to the wolves!!!
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rivhoops



Posts : 111
Join date : 2013-08-24

PostSubject: Re: 3 person crews   Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:50 pm

Just looking for feedback from coaches, team managers or parents on what the going rate for their junior officials is in their school and if there are any plans on increasing it for next season.

Please include any duties that your score keepers are responsible for as well( ie.. are they required to set up and tear down, do they sweep the floors ect...)

This would include high school, middle school and age class games.

Thanks
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Hardfouls



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Join date : 2010-01-29

PostSubject: Re: 3 person crews   Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:52 am

rivhoops wrote:
Just looking for feedback from coaches, team managers or parents on what the going rate for their junior officials is in their school and if there are any plans on increasing it for next season.

Please include any duties that your score keepers are responsible for as well( ie.. are they required to set up and tear down, do they sweep the floors ect...)

This would include high school, middle school and age class games.

Thanks

"Junior Officials" - Do you mean people working the table (i.e. minor officials) or young officials working youth games?
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lebronrocks



Posts : 47
Join date : 2011-01-18

PostSubject: Re: 3 person crews   Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:04 pm

To quote the CIS national championship winning coach Dave Nutbrown , when asked about going to the 3 official system from 2 officials to make the game better " if you want to make the game better ....take one away !!"
Three officials for high school , not happening....$250 a game for officials ....unrealistic for high school basketball and the volume of games played.
No ones complains about officials more than me but it's because I hate to lose , not because they are bad....I just want every call....:-)
Officiating overall in NB is as good as anywhere. I have never lost a game because of poor officials or mistakes at the table. We lose because we can't square up , have poor footwork , don't box out and can't make shots...not one ref in NB is going 25% from behind the arc....we are !
End of rant ! :-)
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CoachDJR



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Join date : 2010-01-22
Location : Southern NB

PostSubject: Re: 3 person crews   Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:20 pm

In terms of Minor Officiating its part of our kids requirements as a member of the team that they play for. Anyone who plays on any team varsity, jv, middle school is required to do at least two games per year as a minor official. This is table only. Team playing is required to set up and take down for home games.

Also when scheduling things major tournaments at home you must pair up with another program team and be available to work their tournament. ie. JV girls cannot play weekend of senior girls home tournament as they act as minor officials, varsity girls reciprocate the weekend of their home tournament. Unless you want to find minor officials outside the pool of team players.

We've got 6+ teams from middle school to high school that is 72+ kids at 144 games of coverage. That gets everyone 8 home games beyond their home tournament covered if there is equal distribution and most teams won't play that many home games if you exclude home tournaments.
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Coachmac



Posts : 250
Join date : 2009-11-24
Location : Moncton, NB

PostSubject: Re: 3 person crews   Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:20 am

rivhoops wrote:
Just looking for feedback from coaches, team managers or parents on what the going rate for their junior officials is in their school and if there are any plans on increasing it for next season.

Please include any duties that your score keepers are responsible for as well( ie.. are they required to set up and tear down, do they sweep the floors ect...)

This would include high school, middle school and age class games.

Thanks

At MacNaughton we paid $15 for each table official. Setup and tear down were done on a rotating basis by the team.
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PostSubject: Re: 3 person crews   Today at 7:28 pm

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