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PostSubject: Re: Recruits/transfers   Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:40 pm

sorry forgot to add...

Daniel Edwards (Burnaby South) I beleive he came from Notre Dame.

Again goes back to my point, if you want to compete under the current system you better have players outside your catchment.
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PostSubject: Re: Recruits/transfers   Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:48 am

That transfer-prep school motion about having another provincial venue apart from the one at the Agrodome has been defeated. Here is the article Tsumura wrote on it:

Quote :
By Howard Tsumura

The Vancouver Province

VANCOUVER -- A motion to create a new provincial championship subdivision within B.C.'s largest senior boys basketball tier was narrowly defeated Saturday afternoon at the B.C. High School Boys Basketball Association's annual general meeting.

Yet despite the vote, those behind the proposal to stage a second Triple-A B.C. tournament based on the number of transfer-in players, say their event will likely still be staged in some form in 2011.

A transfer-in player is defined as a student who is attending and playing at a school where he did not start his Grade 8 year, or in the case of middle schools, where he did not start his Grade 9 year. The proposal stated that any senior Triple A team with two or fewer transfer-in players could choose to participate, if it qualifies, in a provincial championship tournament seperate from the one staged annually at the PNE Agrodome

"There are a lot of coaches that want to see this happen and it would run along the exact same lines as an invitational tournament," said Richmond-R.C. Palmer head coach, one of those supporting the motion. "So if the coaches want to, we'll potentially run one the week before (the Telus B.C. championships). The fact that it did not pass gives us an opportunity to almost run a test tournament and learn from our mistakes. We'll see how it goes and ultimately if we do that and people don't want it, then we're fine."

The proposal, formulated and put forward at the AGM by longtime Maple Ridge Ramblers head coach Ken Dockendorf, created lively and emotional debate among those in attendance and ultimately was quashed by a 23-20 vote.

The debate also brought up many of the issues surrounding the issue of transfer players, and Wayne Best, head coach of Burnaby's Byrne Creek Bulldogs, asked a fundamental question that still needs answering.

"Ultimately, everything we do has to be for the kids," said Best, who was honored this past week as the 2010 winner of the BCHSBBA's prestigious Ken Wright Coaching Award. "We need to have a deeper understanding of why kids transfer and we haven't even explored that yet. We need to talk to kids who have transferred."

Eberhardt felt that so much good came out of the AGM.

"I have big visions," he said. "I would like to see an actual coaching association formed where we all support, argue and fight for the things that we think are in the best interest of our student athletes. I think this meeting was a big step forward because this kind of discussion hasn't happened at our meeting in probably 10 years. And this meeting needs to be a place where coaches feel comfortable to share their ideas and for that, I am encouraged, not discouraged by today's vote."

What are your thoughts on the state of high school basketball in B.C. at both the boys and girls levels?

We'd love to hear your thoughts on any number of issues:

Let us know what you think the solution to the transfer issue is?

Can public and private schools continue to co-exist in the same leagues?

What are the pros and cons of players coming out of the middle school system versus elementary school?

Does the format of the boys or girls B.C. championships need to be revamped?

Would you like to see boys and girls Triple A B.C. tournaments played at the same venue like Double A?

Log on to provincesports.com, click on the 'High School' icon and look for the 'State of the Game' headline. There, you can post your thoughts on current state of B.C. high school basketball. All opinions expressed in a clear and respectful manner will be published.
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PostSubject: Re: Recruits/transfers   Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:52 pm

Wait...so there's not gunna be a new tier in AAA basketball next year?
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PostSubject: Re: Recruits/transfers   Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:33 pm

No and the proposal was never about creating a new tier rather it was about creating a new tournament with the only criteria to qualify being that you have no more than 2 transfers playing on your team.
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PostSubject: Re: Recruits/transfers   Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:12 pm

Coach wrote:
For White Rock Christian - Sean Keane was at Holy Cross last year. I know he is not that good, but he did play some minutes.

For Fox doesnt MacDonald live in Port Moody?

I believe that Malcolm Williams was suppose to go to Garibaldi or Westside and Josh Wolfem and David Wagner are Sahali, Spring Valley or Westsyde (one of those schools)

Burnaby South has more than 2 transfers, but they all transfered over before their Junior year, so that is why not too many people know about them. They all play for the Burnaby Eagles Basketball Club

As for Vancouver College, it is not this year's recruits that everyone is worried about, it is the Junior Team that has at least 5 recruits. 2 from Hugh Boyd, 1 from Magee, 1 from Sutherland and 1 from Burnett. The funny thing is that I find it a coincidence (wink, wink) that all of those transers occurred when Bill Disbrow became a Co-Coach, soon to be the Head Coach. All of those tranfers are all DRIVE players, Pasha = Disbrow (coincidence or calculated).

All the kids know, but for those that are not in the KNOW, the following clubs have affiliation to the following schools

DRIVE = VC (used to be Saints but Brian Lee stepped down)
3D/BURNABY EAGLES = Burnaby South
ONE STEP AHEAD = White Rock Christian
REAL BASKETBALL = Kitsilano, Britt and Saints

Coaches might think it over if one of their players say they want to play for these club teams or play in these open gyms.

Bottom line is if coaches want to keep their players they need to start their own club team made up of their own players and coach basketball year round, like they did in the past.

So did I open a can of worms????

That is exactly what it is, a can of worms, nothing more.

3D, Drive etc are all local basketball clubs that train a lot of athletes. It makes sense that athletes use the club that is closest to them. In a lot of cases that proximity also has something to do with the school they go to. There is no connection between those clubs and any school. The fact is that VC and Saints and Burnaby South (for example) all have players attending both 3D and Drive and you attempting to draw a connection between those clubs and the schools is spurious. It is coincidence and it is logical. Most of the better players train outside of school and a lot of them choose to go to the club that is covenient for them.

As for Disbrow and Pasha having something to do with VC transfers, you are again, trying to make connections where there are none. Disbrow was not confirmed as being involved until well after any kid would have had to apply to transfer.

North Shore Spring League involves club teams for all schools with their own coaches, so it makes no sense to suggest that it somehow feeds Carson.

Lets try to stick to what we know and not draw spurious conclusions "wink wink" to support otherwise unproven theories.
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PostSubject: Re: Recruits/transfers   Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:18 pm

Well, the truth is that schools are benefitting from association with club teams.
And the reality is that many of the top players that have played together on rep teams tend to stick together.
Many of them live outside of the school's catchment.
Bby south has many players from outside their catchment.
A recent gr 10 addition transferred from Killarney in vancouver and I know there are others that decided not to attend their neighborhood schools and have been there since gr 8.
I'm not judging just reporting the truth.
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PostSubject: Re: Recruits/transfers   Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:49 pm

Mitchell Goodwin, U16 Provincial Team Blue starter, is transferring to Kelowna Secondary. Coincidentally, the same school he does RTC at. He is leaving Pleasant Valley's program.
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PostSubject: Recruiting   Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:34 pm

bchoops wrote:
truth wrote:
bchoops wrote:
Reiner Theil comes to mind. His transfering last season won them the junior boys title. He's a solid contributor to their team this season. And I believe there is one or two more transfers from the grade 11s on the team. Name escapes me. Next season they'll have more given the 3 grade 10s that transferee their this past Summer.

Here is a link to VC's basketball rosters in 2007. In 2007 the Grade 8 team, now in Grade 11, won provincials. The Grade 9 team, now in Grade 12, came in third. Also in 2007, the grade 10 team, also won provincials.


Going over the 2007 rosters and comparing them to VC's current senior roster, you will see that Thiel is the only transfer. All the players on the current senior roster can be found on the 2007 grade 8 and 9 teams. They have all been at VC since Grade 8. Some, since grade 1!

This makes it hard to understand the claims that VC's program is built on recruits or transfers.

The same grade 2007 grade 8 team then won junior provincials last year, as Grade 10's.

With the continuity in their roster, it's obvious they have a real basketball program. Add their top academic reputation, is it so hard to understand why parents / kids may want to transfer there?

Thiel's case illustrates some of the reasons for transfers well. He went to VC in grade 10 from West Vancouver. At West Van, the school had dropped it's Grade 9 and 10 basketball teams and their senior coach quit coaching. West Van's football program also struggled to field enough players and the reality is that they finished at the bottom of their league in both sports. On the other hand, at VC, Thiel went to the Junior Provincials for basketball and received the MVP and also went to the semi's of the Senior Bowl for football and was recognized as a Provincial all star.

So the kid was an athlete stuck in a program without development and coaching. Is it fair to characterize someone in that type of situation as lacking morals, ethics or loyalty? Or put another way: Is it better to be a big fish in a big pond or a big fish without a pond?

The athletes are what is important here. We should expect them and everyone else to play by the rules when it comes to transfers. However, we should not fault them or falsely malign the programs to which they are attracted, when their needs are not being met where they are.

First off, it doesn't take a rocketscientist to know that:

hoopdreams12 = truth

What do you say next year when your team does have 3 or more recruits/transfers? Like Cole Penman, Kyle Holden, Reiner Theil, etc?

Recruiting doesn't necessarily mean only recruiting high school kids. There are always Vancouver College personnel on hand at elementary championships and u13 club championships. Recruting can happen in grade 7 as well. Vancouver College isn't the only private school there so I will leave it at that but only name Vancouver College since you are the Senior Boys head coach and seem to have time for this discussion while the Provincials are next week. Best of luck coach.

[left]Alright already about recruiting. I used to play high school ball years ago and now I'm a teacher in the system.

Here's a fact: almost all (95%+) of successful programs have transfers, back in the day, now, and in the future! Other posts have already named some high profile players. So, really, no one should be calling the kettle black. If schools want to do well, they need to develop better programs to retain kids - like any business, if you want customers you have to have a desirable product or service, simple. Kids (parents) will always do what they believe is in their best interest.

Since I now teach, i've been hearing alot of talk about VC's acceptance of a bunch of players in their JV winning team this past year. Apparently, there were about 6 or so who transferred (can't confirm). Interesting, since I know VC already had a strong grade 9 team last year who went to the semi-finals and lost to the champs (Kits - yeah!) by only a basket in the semis.

The number of "new" VC players are staggering but what do you do if they come to your door and want in? Do VC prefer athletes? Absolutely! Can you be critical? Maybe.

Here's where VC may be criticized. How are the new transfers as students. Are they academically strong or at least average? Last time I checked VC made the Fraser Institute's highest academic rating and consistently so.

If any of the new recruits are "poor" students (marks and attitude), then VC can be criticized for accepting students strictly to enrich their success on the court without any regard for the schools academic performance and the student bodies best interest, not to mention the displacement of probably some very decent players who've been loyal to the school. If this is indeed what has happened, then SHAME ON YOU VC!

If this is not the case, then VC has done nothing wrong except for being a very attractive school.

Either the truth is favorable to VC or their morals have been exposed (ironically).
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PostSubject: Easy fix to the transfer issue and lack of cohesiveness.   Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:15 pm

I am interested to know where the rest of the province basketball players are? Do you only have one tier in the entire province? It seems to me that there is a complete misrepresentation by the powers that be in basketball for the province and the media coverage for the other schools in their championships. I know that there are other tiers but why do you not have them all playing together, at the same venue, with the same media coverage. That will definately slow the transfer issue you all have as it is easy to see that kids want to get to the agrodome only. That is all they care about. Their parents too. Why don't you give the same thing to all basketball schools. Not just the bigger ones. This would do a number of positive things. 1. slow or stop the transferring of students to schools that can go to the agrodome. If they all can go then why leave? 2. show off the overall talent of the province at all levels. 3. make it easy for recruiters, scouts and post secondary coaches to see players. They can go to one venue and see them all. 4. make it impossible for the media to cover only one tier. With all of them in one place then they can really make it a big event with more in depth coverage for all. 5. financial benefits. Think about the revenue that could be generated from 3 tiers rather than only one. More sponsors, more coverage, more spectators etc...

Seems like an easy answer, make the quest to the provincial championships like the state championships and have them all at the same venue and publicize the heck out of it. Time for a change and something bigger. It works in basketball land (the U.S.) why not here? I guarantee it would be for the best and improve alot of issues surrounding your provinces high school basketball.
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PostSubject: Re: Recruits/transfers   Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:07 pm

i agree with zoons... have all 3 championships in one place. in washington, they have 6 tiers. 2 of the tiers play in the tacoma dome, 3 play in the yakima dome and 1 play in spokane. Its easier for everybody plus other players can see what the talent is like at other levels and they will get scouted by recruiters who are already there
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PostSubject: Re: Recruits/transfers   Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:36 pm

okanaganbball wrote:
Mitchell Goodwin, U16 Provincial Team Blue starter, is transferring to Kelowna Secondary. Coincidentally, the same school he does RTC at. He is leaving Pleasant Valley's program.

Is this speculation? I know the family have talked about a move south, but not necessarily Kelowna. They have also discussdd the lower mainland/Fraser valley, if they move at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Recruits/transfers   Mon May 23, 2011 11:46 am

captainchaos wrote:
Recruiting has been going on for ever and it will never stop. Too many players, and parents who are totally selfish and too many coaches with giant ego's.

captain chaos, i don't see anything wrong with kids trying to get the best basketball experience possible before they finish high school basketball.
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