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 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2

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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:08 am

The berthing for 2013-14 has been confirmed for all senior levels.

The berthing meeting took place on Sunday February 2, 2014 @ R. C. Palmer.

Breakdown can be viewed at
http://www.sportvictoria.com/basketball/BCBerthing/2014/2014BCBerthing.htm

1A
VI - 2
HS - 1 (auto)
LM - 2
FV - 3
OK - 3
KT - 2
NC - 2
NW - 1

2A
VI - 3
HS - 2
LM - 2
FV - 3
OK - 3
KT - 1
NC - 1 (auto)
NW - 1 (auto)

3A
VI - 3
HS - 1 (auto)
LM - 4
FV - 4
OK - 1
KT - 1 (auto)
NC - 1
NW - 1 (auto)

4A
VI - 2
HS - 1 (auto)
LM - 3
FV - 6
OK - 1 (auto)
KT - 1 (auto)
NC - 1 (auto)
NW - 1 (auto)

(auto) = Automatic berth as the number of teams in the specific region is below the divisor.


Last edited by Sportvictoria on Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:08 pm; edited 3 times in total
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lukester0506



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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:44 am

Sportvictoria wrote:


4A
VI - 2
HS - 1 (auto)
LM - 3
FV - 6
OK - 1 (auto)
KT - 1 (auto)
NC - 1 (auto)
NW - 1 (auto)

(auto) = Automatic berth as the number of teams in the specific region is below the divisor.

Thats a lot of automatic berths imo. It'll be interesting to see which LM Independent school will get in to the LM's Tournament or both? Not too sure how that will work this year, can anyone clarify? Churchill basically has a lock down for one of the three imo, so I wonder who will take the other two from LM.

And in the Valley, there will be lots of competition for those 6 spots. Possibly another upset like last year with Tammy. :p

Is "HS" Howe Sound? Isnt Argyle, West Van, Sentinel and Handsworth all 4A? If all four is 4A It'll be a competition for Sentinel, West Van and Handsworth.
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:50 am

lukester0506 wrote:
Sportvictoria wrote:


4A
VI - 2
HS - 1 (auto)
LM - 3
FV - 6
OK - 1 (auto)
KT - 1 (auto)
NC - 1 (auto)
NW - 1 (auto)

(auto) = Automatic berth as the number of teams in the specific region is below the divisor.

Thats a lot of automatic berths imo.

An automatic berth is given to an area with less than the divisor. So if an area has 3 teams and the divisor is 5.5 then that area gets a guaranteed 1 berth automatically.
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lukester0506



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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:08 am

Sportvictoria wrote:
lukester0506 wrote:
Sportvictoria wrote:


4A
VI - 2
HS - 1 (auto)
LM - 3
FV - 6
OK - 1 (auto)
KT - 1 (auto)
NC - 1 (auto)
NW - 1 (auto)

(auto) = Automatic berth as the number of teams in the specific region is below the divisor.

Thats a lot of automatic berths imo.

An automatic berth is given to an area with less than the divisor.  So if an area has 3 teams and the divisor is 5.5 then that area gets a guaranteed 1 berth automatically.

Oh Okay, I understand now. Thanks for the Clarification!
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Berthing has been updated   Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:21 pm

Berthing has been updated
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Hoops-9



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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:22 am

Not sure about the A/AA/AAA tiers because I don't follow them much....but I think 4A should do half berths. Five of eight zones get an automatic berth. I understand that they need regional representation in order to make it a 'true' provincial tournament. However (to use the example), when a zone gets a berth when it only has three 4A teams - and doesn't even fill the required 5 schools - they should only get a half-berth.

[In half berth situations teams do a crossover game with another school from a different region. So, for instance, the OK or Howe Sound does a crossover game with a lower-placing Fraser Valley or Lower mainland team.]

Why should traditionally and current weaker regions (not saying they are weak by instance of the zone they come from - just based on consistent past results) get to automatically go to the tournament when teams from other zones have to 'earn' their way in? The whole point of automatic berthing is to 'level out' the playing field and make it fair for teams from other smaller zones, the logic being that a school shouldn't be denied the chance to compete purely based on the fact that they come from a zone with fewer schools/smaller population. However, doesn't this, then, make it unfair for the kids who might come from a larger region? Half berthing would fix this. Every zone truly would get a chance to qualify for the BCs - and the tournament would genuinely be made up of the province's best.

A move back to the twenty-team tournament with Tuesday games (like it has been recently - not sure what changed) would give more berths to the larger regions.

I just think it's a little unfortunate for the Valley, who gets six berths...The region had EIGHT teams in the top 10 (technically 11) of the most recent rankings, plus three more named as "Honourable Mention" squads. An excellent team is going to miss out by virtue of their zone; isn't that what "automatic" berths aimed to eliminate?
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:26 am

Hoops-9 wrote:
Not sure about the A/AA/AAA tiers because I don't follow them much....but I think 4A should do half berths. Five of eight zones get an automatic berth. I understand that they need regional representation in order to make it a 'true' provincial tournament. However (to use the example), when a zone gets a berth when it only has three 4A teams - and doesn't even fill the required 5 schools - they should only get a half-berth.

[In half berth situations teams do a crossover game with another school from a different region. So, for instance, the OK or Howe Sound does a crossover game with a lower-placing Fraser Valley or Lower mainland team.]

Why should traditionally and current weaker regions (not saying they are weak by instance of the zone they come from - just based on consistent past results) get to automatically go to the tournament when teams from other zones have to 'earn' their way in? The whole point of automatic berthing is to 'level out' the playing field and make it fair for teams from other smaller zones, the logic being that a school shouldn't be denied the chance to compete purely based on the fact that they come from a zone with fewer schools/smaller population. However, doesn't this, then, make it unfair for the kids who might come from a larger region? Half berthing would fix this. Every zone truly would get a chance to qualify for the BCs - and the tournament would genuinely be made up of the province's best.

A move back to the twenty-team tournament with Tuesday games (like it has been recently - not sure what changed) would give more berths to the larger regions.

I just think it's a little unfortunate for the Valley, who gets six berths...The region had EIGHT teams in the top 10 (technically 11) of the most recent rankings, plus three more named as "Honourable Mention" squads. An excellent team is going to miss out by virtue of their zone; isn't that what "automatic" berths aimed to eliminate?


To the not well thought out post:

Teams qualify by winning (small zones) and by placing well (larger zones). You can't tell a team you don't get to go to the BC because there are only four teams in your zone. The NCAA tournament has I believe 33 automatic berths - league/zone winners. It does not matter how weak your area was - the winner of your area gets to go to the show.

As far as 1/2 berths - Do you want to have Kootenay have to challenge Okanagan - going through two mountain passes in winter for one game? Or how about North Central and North West playing each other - when they are 8-12 hours apart... that's 2-4 days travel (return) for one game. Think of the cost and the practicality of that.

When a NC or NW qualify for the BC's they are looking at easily a $20,000 bill for the travel and accommodation. You want to add to that now?

Not long ago South Kamloops was a powerhouse in the Okanagan... not far behind them was Kelowna and then Mount Boucherie... all three were top 15... guess what - they got one berth. The winner of their zone got to go and the other two stayed home yet easily four or five weaker teams from the Lower Mainland and Fraser Valley got in.

For 2014, 12 more berths were added to the collective BC's... and you're complaining Valley does not get enough berths? Are you kidding me?

Where do you get the 'required 5 schools' moniker?
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PressThis



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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:59 am

I think tourney format does need a re-think to better balance competitiveness and representation. I do not think that it makes sense that there are some zones (at least 2) where there is only one AAAA school and they already know they are in provincial tourney.
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:23 pm

PressThis wrote:
I think tourney format does need a re-think to better balance competitiveness and representation.  I do not think that it makes sense that there are some zones (at least 2) where there is only one AAAA school and they already know they are in provincial tourney.  


It's not the school's fault they are in a small zone. To penalize them, in anyway, for it is just plain wrong.
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Hoops-9



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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:05 pm

Sportvictoria wrote:


To the not well thought out post:

Teams qualify by winning (small zones) and by placing well (larger zones).  You can't tell a team you don't get to go to the BC because there are only four teams in your zone.  The NCAA tournament has I believe 33 automatic berths - league/zone winners.  It does not matter how weak your area was - the winner of your area gets to go to the show.

As far as 1/2 berths - Do you want to have Kootenay have to challenge Okanagan - going through two mountain passes in winter for one game?  Or how about North Central and North West playing each other - when they are 8-12 hours apart... that's 2-4 days travel (return) for one game.  Think of the cost and the practicality of that.

When a NC or NW qualify for the BC's they are looking at easily a $20,000 bill for the travel and accommodation.  You want to add to that now?

Not long ago South Kamloops was a powerhouse in the Okanagan... not far behind them was Kelowna and then Mount Boucherie... all three were top 15... guess what - they got one berth.  The winner of their zone got to go and the other two stayed home yet easily four or five weaker teams from the Lower Mainland and Fraser Valley got in.

For 2014, 12 more berths were added to the collective BC's... and you're complaining Valley does not get enough berths?  Are you kidding me?

Where do you get the 'required 5 schools' moniker?

sportvictoria:

How is my post 'not well thought-out'? I presented an argument with what I thought were several points that supported half-berthing. The girls do it every year and we never complain. I didn't take into consideration travel because I was more concerned with the quality of play at the tournament rather than $$. Sorry that I wasn't considerate of that. I do understand that it is very expensive for those teams to come down.

My complaint was in the fact that some regions (the smaller ones) do not even need to 'reach' the total number of schools in order to get a berth. Of course it's 'not their fault', but doesn't that then make it unfair for the Valley/Lower mainland/Island teams who ARE awarded berths based on having a certain number of schools? So for instance, the equation is 5 schools gives you one berth (just to use as an example). To use the FV and say NC as an example, the FV has at least (probably more, this is JUST who makes playoffs) 32 teams. The NC has 3 (please correct if wrong, I have no idea). So the Fraser Valley has almost 11 times more teams than the NC....But only gets 6 times as many berths. So to use your argument, that it's 'not their fault,' it's not a Valley team's fault that they come from such a big zone!! Giving them six berths (when they should get 11, based on rewarding of berths for other zones) is penalizing THEM for being such a big zone...just sayin'.

(Of course, I'm not saying the FV should get 11 berths. I am also not saying the NC has 3 teams. I'm trying to point out that some zones get berths based on a 1 (berth) : 3 (team) ratio, and others have a 1:5 ratio.)

I agree with the Okanagan point and I do remember those years. FYI I would have said the same thing then. Touche!

But you need to read my post a bit more carefully. You said I'm 'complaining' that the Valley does not get enough berths - which is true - but obviously didn't see why. The 4A - the zone I'm talking about - lost two berths (for the Valley) from last year!! I am not talking about 3A, 2A or 1A and I never brought those up. I pointed to the fact that in other years they've had 20 team tournaments and I didn't know why they went back to 16.
And I got the 'required 5 schools moniker' from YOU. I put "to use the example" RIGHT BEFORE making that argument. I took it from you, when you were explaining to Lukester how the berthing works. Sorry. You used 5.5 instead of 5 as the divisor. I just used 5 to make it a whole number of schools.

PS I think they should absorb the Howe Sound into the Lower Mainland. For me, it would be the same thing as the FV North being separate from the rest of the Valley.

EDIT: We don't use an NCAA system though. If we did, all the best teams (which this year happen to be from the Valley) would get in and I wouldn't have a complaint. To use the NCAA system would mean the top 8/10 (depending on tourney size) would qualify and the other half of the teams would make it based on strength, regardless of zone; in this case, the other half of teams, just based on the latest rankings, would be from the Valley. This would also help the case in other years where, like the past example you used, the Okanagan has three strong teams. All of them would get in regardless of being in a smaller zone because they are the strongest teams and deserve to be there.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:32 pm

Sportvictoria wrote:
PressThis wrote:
I think tourney format does need a re-think to better balance competitiveness and representation.  I do not think that it makes sense that there are some zones (at least 2) where there is only one AAAA school and they already know they are in provincial tourney.  


It's not the school's fault they are in a small zone.  To penalize them, in anyway, for it is just plain wrong.

but...why reward them and make it so they do not have to any in any way earn it. They literally can book their hotels at start of year without playing a game.
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okanaganbball



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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:19 pm

PressThis wrote:
Sportvictoria wrote:
PressThis wrote:
I think tourney format does need a re-think to better balance competitiveness and representation.  I do not think that it makes sense that there are some zones (at least 2) where there is only one AAAA school and they already know they are in provincial tourney.  


It's not the school's fault they are in a small zone.  To penalize them, in anyway, for it is just plain wrong.

but...why reward them and make it so they do not have to any in any way earn it.  They literally can book their hotels at start of year without playing a game.

The Kootenays and the Northwest are the only regions that have this. Every other region has to be won to get that berth.
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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:24 pm

Hoops-9,

You are incorrect saying we don't use the NCAA system - we use part of it.

In the NCAA every league (zone) winner qualifies for the dance - regardless how strong their area is.

Let's say you allow a 1/2 berth... Valley 7 is decided on the Saturday - on the followoing Monday or Tuesday they will play a change game @ NC1 for their berth. Let's say NC1 is... North Peace in Fort St. John. The airfare alone for the Valley 7 is around $10,000 - assuming you can get the discount price - if not, double it. Forget the fact that they would need hotels and transportation for 2-3 days. Straddle any program with that kind of bill. Now flip that around - say NC1 has to challenge Valley 7... travel to the Lower Mainland and play at V7... and they win. Now a mere week later they have to spend that money - well more actually coming down to play in the BC's.

Yes - sometimes an area gets 1 berth for one team. It happens. But what also happens is that area like the Valley receives more than a fist full of berths and the top teams don't make it and some seasonally weaker teams get in. Example: a few years back Seaquam was #2 in BC... but did not get out of the Valley... a few years later after that, WJ Mouat was #1 in BC... but did not get out of the Valley.

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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Re: 2013-14 BC BERTHING confirmed Feb. 2   Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:11 pm

Sportvictoria wrote:
The berthing for 2013-14 has been confirmed for all senior levels.

The berthing meeting took place on Sunday February 2, 2014 @ R. C. Palmer.

Breakdown can be viewed at
http://www.sportvictoria.com/basketball/BCBerthing/2014/2014BCBerthing.htm



Berthing meeting has been done.
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