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 Which school?

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oldtymeballer



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PostSubject: Which school?   Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:20 am

I'm a regular reader of the HooptownGTA forum, though I don't post there, and I read a good post about schools picking and choosing their classification level each year. (i.e. AAAA, AAA, AA, and A) You can go here to read the entire post if you want but what interested me was this comment by the poster:

Some people are probably asking, what's the big deal? Well the deal is that while smaller schools can go up, the larger schools can not choose to go down from year to year. In the case of AAAA, they are stuck in their level. This means they don't have the same flexibility to move around and thus cannot play the system like a few notorious schools that play the "what level will they go" game from year to year. (I am not going to name names as the intent of this post isn't to target schools. However I will say that anyone who is familiar with school sports in Ottawa probably knows who I consider to be the worst offender in the province.)

I know I have my opinion as to which school the poster is thinking about but what do others believe? Personally, I think it's pretty obvious and I do think they are pretty notorious for shopping for levels in a bunch of different sports each year. Probably not a good idea when one considers how many Ottawa coaches already have a problem with this school's distinct advantage over other schools.
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NewBoy



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:05 pm

Who do you think it is?
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oldtymeballer



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:00 pm

I'll post who I think it is eventually but I'm curious if others think it's as obvious as do. Who knows, I could be mistaken on that one.
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Lebron123



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:09 pm

LOUIS RIEL
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NewBoy



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:21 pm

I was thinking LR also
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XavierJay



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:18 am

LOUIS RIEL
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fh21



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:22 am

XavierJay wrote:
LOUIS RIEL

I agree with louis riel
and maybe ashbury will move up to AA having won this year at ofsaa
the gta talent pool is very large compared to other regions,
thus they have the level of basketball needed to compete at AAAA
ottawa gives the winner of the AAA/AAAA final the option to play at either AAA/AAAA
at ofsaa
st matts played at the AAAA level at ofsaa, they were not exactly expected to medal
but the exposure to those basketball teams, may have helped them out the grade 11s and the coach for next year
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oldtymeballer



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:53 pm

I see many others agree with me.

There is a difference between going up a level after winning the year before and jumping up and down in order to find the level most likely to earn an OFSAA medal, as the original post on Hooptown mentions. I think Louis Riel is the worst offender. It's bad enough that they can draw elite athletes from all over the region but to then play at A or AA when the team isn't as strong as expected but AAA or AAAA when they think they can medal that year is ridiculous. A school with open borders like that should always play up...period.
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fh21



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:20 pm

why did they decide to go all the way down to single a?
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coachc



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:55 pm

Let's remember that LR is a single A school and thus their decision to play single A was legitimate. I am not sure that they have done anything wrong by declaring their school to play with the teams that they would be most competitive with. Is it something that perhaps other schools would like to do? Maybe. But they would at first have to qualify for single a to have that privilige. It is not like they cheated or something.
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oldtymeballer



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:33 pm

While Louis Riel might be single A in size, the fact that they can draw a large concentration of elite francophone and bilingual athletes from across Ottawa, and even outside of the city, renders that designation meaningless.

Imagine the outrage if schools like Oakwood, Eastern Commerce, Henry Carr and Mother Teresa chose to play AA basketball because that is their size. (In the case of Eastern Commerce, I believe they are actually A sized beginning next year.) Regardless of their actual populations, they are magnets for elite basketball players and so the coaches do the honourable thing and declare AAAA every year, even if that means some of them miss playing in OFSAA.

Louis Riel, on the other hand, rarely does the honourable thing and declare AAA or AAAA every year and instead chooses to bounce around levels, holding fast to the ridiculous idea that they are somehow just another A school. I don't understand why they and their supporters think that declaring anything above A is somehow worthy of praise. It should be the expected minimum for any sports magnet school.

Of course, they might end up being their own worst enemies if they, along with other sports magnet schools, continue in this way. If the rumours out of OFSAA are true, these schools might soon be in the firing line at an OFSAA AGM one of these years. Apparently a lot of coaches and sports reps are tired of the advantages these schools have in their respective regions and they might soon be told that they can no longer participate in OFSAA and perhaps even league play. At the very minimum, look for them to eventually be forced to declare AAAA for every sport that they draw elite athletes.
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coachc



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:08 pm

It was not that long ago that Mother Theresa won AA ofsaa. Still, to compare them to Louis Riel is not all that accurate nor fair. Louis Riel is not dominating teams at the levels you talk about (at least not in boys basketball). They did not even qualify for single a ofsaa this year. According to an earlier post by someone pointing out population size of Ottawa schools, Ashbury was actually AA size but played under a granted exemption at single A. Which seems more advantageous a school playing down a category under a granted exemption or a school playing in their category? I am not trying to suggest that Ashbury did anything wrong, they asked for an exemption and were granted it thus they followed the rules I am just trying to point out that there are many other things that other schools do that people could take exception to but choose to ignore, yet this issue has become a rather hot topic on this forum??

Yes Louis Riel can draw from all over the city for athletics but not simply for basketball. John McRae can draw from all over the city as well for the same reason. Other schools can draw from all over the city for a variety of reasons yet nothing gets said about their advantages. If Louis Riel were dominating single A ofsaa every year then I get your point, but the fact of the matter is they are not even qualifying. They are not drawing the best basketball players in the city to their school like Eastern Commerce, Carr, etc. do in Toronto. But even these schools could play AA if they wanted to, it is their right and they choose to play up for their own reasons or goals not because they want someone else to have the AA spot. They are not sacrificing themselves because of the greater good.
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baller29



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:26 pm

coachc wrote:
It was not that long ago that Mother Theresa won AA ofsaa. Still, to compare them to Louis Riel is not all that accurate nor fair. Louis Riel is not dominating teams at the levels you talk about (at least not in boys basketball). They did not even qualify for single a ofsaa this year. According to an earlier post by someone pointing out population size of Ottawa schools, Ashbury was actually AA size but played under a granted exemption at single A. Which seems more advantageous a school playing down a category under a granted exemption or a school playing in their category? I am not trying to suggest that Ashbury did anything wrong, they asked for an exemption and were granted it thus they followed the rules I am just trying to point out that there are many other things that other schools do that people could take exception to but choose to ignore, yet this issue has become a rather hot topic on this forum??

Yes Louis Riel can draw from all over the city for athletics but not simply for basketball. John McRae can draw from all over the city as well for the same reason. Other schools can draw from all over the city for a variety of reasons yet nothing gets said about their advantages. If Louis Riel were dominating single A ofsaa every year then I get your point, but the fact of the matter is they are not even qualifying. They are not drawing the best basketball players in the city to their school like Eastern Commerce, Carr, etc. do in Toronto. But even these schools could play AA if they wanted to, it is their right and they choose to play up for their own reasons or goals not because they want someone else to have the AA spot. They are not sacrificing themselves because of the greater good.

so why is john mccrae mentioned?
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coachc



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:43 pm

John McRae has the elite athlete program. Those elite athletes play sports outside of school but they do draw in elite athletes in the city without boundaries.
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coachjazz



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:55 pm

LR is AA not A. They have over 915 student. The league got it wrong by letting them play A this years. On a side note: I heard the league is investigating Louis-riel for cheating there way to the final, the rumour is that 2 Louis-riel player (starters) where fouled out but somehow (apparently foul where erased from the score sheet) where allow to re-enter game against Deslaurier (close game). Anyone can confirm this rumour?
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baller29



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:37 pm

coachc wrote:
John McRae has the elite athlete program. Those elite athletes play sports outside of school but they do draw in elite athletes in the city without boundaries.
i dont think its a sports program its just that the school creates schdules that wont conflict with people who do hockey kis only take 5 claases a year but they dont particpate in school
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baller29



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:50 pm

coachjazz wrote:
LR is AA not A. They have over 915 student. The league got it wrong by letting them play A this years. On a side note: I heard the league is investigating Louis-riel for cheating there way to the final, the rumour is that 2 Louis-riel player (starters) where fouled out but somehow (apparently foul where erased from the score sheet) where allow to re-enter game against Deslaurier (close game). Anyone can confirm this rumour?

theres actully now way that louis riel is a single a school its impossible for a public school to be single a the school is huge and has alot of people it cant be single a
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coachc



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:26 pm

Size of the building does not matter it is size of the school population that matters. Here is the link I was given about the size of all NCSSAA schools and their classifications. You will notice that single A is 1-500 students and Louis Riel has 499.25 students thus qualifying them for single A.

http://www.fatdog.ca/_docs/NCSSAA_OFSAA_Designations_Classification.pdf

You will also notice that St. Matts and Bell are very close to being AA schools which would make this conversation even more interesting should either of these two opt to play AA if they qualify. I believe that both are under 900 students this year so this could be a reality for next season.

NB - typically ofsaa bases qualification at a certain level on the poplulation of the school the year prior to the season.
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coachc



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:30 pm

My inclusion of John McRae was merely to point out that they too have a program (yes it is an official program) that draws athletes from all over the city, but it does not necessarily translate to elite sports programs for the school. Louis Riel fields a competitive team in boys basketball each year but I cannot remember the last time they actually qualified for ofsaa so I really don't think that they have committed any wrong doings here. I would love to hear from the Louis Riel people on this as well because I feel like I am the only one defending them and I have only been in their school once in 10 years of coaching!
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coachjazz



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:48 pm

Both bell and st-matt claim they have more than 1200 student but how come the league only recognize like 900 of them? Is it because they don’t count the grade 7 and 8 ?
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oldtymeballer



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:26 pm

coachjazz wrote:
Both bell and st-matt claim they have more than 1200 student but how come the league only recognize like 900 of them? Is it because they don’t count the grade 7 and 8 ?

Of course not. Students in those grades are not eligible for OFSAA so their numbers aren't included. Every English Catholic High School in Ottawa, except for St. Pius X I believe, faces the same situation.
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oldtymeballer



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:29 pm

coachc wrote:
It was not that long ago that Mother Theresa won AA ofsaa.

I think seven years, right after they started receiving most of the top Malvern players instead of Scarborough Pearson, counts as long enough ago.

Louis Riel accumulates elite athletes in basketball, volleyball, soccer, and hockey from around Eastern Ontario and they should always play up to reflect this. If you don't think the designation makes a difference, look at how often they were contenders at National Capitals in any level before that time. The answer is zero.


Last edited by oldtymeballer on Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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oldtymeballer



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:31 pm

coachjazz wrote:
LR is AA not A. They have over 915 student. The league got it wrong by letting them play A this years.

No they didn't. You got it wrong because you simply repeated the number on Wikipedia without looking at the site in a little more detail. You notice that the school is 7-12? That means that the 400+ grade 8 and 9 students do not count for OFSAA classification.

Re: these basic errors and your blind posting of rumours. I hope you're not really a coach.
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oldtymeballer



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:33 pm

baller29 wrote:
theres actully now way that louis riel is a single a school its impossible for a public school to be single a

Why is it impossible for a public school to be single A? Deslauriers is also a public school that is A and Rideau is only about 15 over that designation and will most likely fall to A next year.
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coachjazz



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PostSubject: Re: Which school?   Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:42 pm

oldtymeballer wrote:



No they didn't. You got it wrong because you simply repeated the number on Wikipedia without looking at the site in a little more detail. You notice that the school is 7-12? That means that the 400+ grade 8 and 9 students do not count for OFSAA classification.

Re: these basic errors and your blind posting of rumours. I hope you're not really a coach.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There a reason why i asked if they do count grade 7 and 8 on my previous post. I simply asked a question. Did I offend you? Cause there no need for you to get mad. Are you a member of Louis-Riel coaching staff? For your information this was brought out to me by a Franco-Ouest player who is the cousin of a Deslaurier player. From what heard Deslaurier launched a protest and wanted to replay the game at a neutral site. But the league refused and instead launched an investigation. So no I am not blind posting rumour. I just wanted to know if anyone else heard of this story and if there any true to it.

Yes the league got it wrong, there no way Louis-riel should had been allowed to plays Single A, let me repeat it Louis-Riel has more than 499 students between grade 8 and 12,.There no way they would have 415 grade 7 and 8. I have been to Louis-Riel recently and I can assure you that the ratio of grade 7 and 8 (compare to grade 9-12) is not 4/5 or 0.8/1. I would says its more 0.2/1

Am not sure exactly why you need to ad that you hope am not coach. You assume that I might be a coach because my username has the word coach and yet you’re digging me for assuming the Wikipedia had the right number of enrolment (Double Standard). Granted that my source was not solid (because I was at work, couldn’t browse on the internet for to long) but that doesn’t make any less of a coach. But just to answer your question am not coach, I played 3 years of bball at Cape Breton (I know my basketball, I played point guard)

RE: I will let this one slide.
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