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 Single A Talk

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CoachDJR



Posts : 736
Join date : 2010-01-22
Location : Southern NB

PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:16 am

I know its going you. You know its going on. The NBIAA knows its going on. One of the requirements of attending RNS is participation daily in sport or phyiscal programming. Every student being recruited to RNS is a student-athlete or athlete-student. If you want what you are talking about enforced then schools like RNS, FCA,etc just can't participate in NBIAA sports. Everytime they have a kid fill out a bursary or scholarship form, everytime a recruiter or school officials gives out information to a parent they are in violation of this rule. If it was going to be enforced this way for private schools it would have been enforced that way long ago. The issue is well past "are private schools recruiting" and "does the NBIAA mind". At RNS specifically its already gone on in other sports and now it is just hitting basketball.

Option 1 - The AGM turns into a gong show of schools complaining, debate about procedure and protocal and the NBIAA trying to establish what can and can't be talked about on the AGM floor. Every gets a piece of what they want said said. The NBIAA makes its own decisions. RNS moves up to AA or AAA next year which they were likely going to do anyway.

Option 2 - You play the team across from you and you teach kids and everyone else you can to control controllables.


Ask them to overcome teams having good players the same way smaller schools with less committed programs have to ask their kids to: Nackawic vs Harvey, Oromocto vs Fredericton High, Bonar Law vs Woodstock . . . when those teams are out matched and out gunned no one jumps to their defense. We attack RNS because despite doing the same things they've done for years (only more strategically and in basketball) and are clearly allowed to do or it wouldn't have gone on this long, now kids having to compete against them is unfair because they are good??

If this is an anti-private school in NBIAA or really an anti-recruiting movement that really bothers people then lets keep bringing it up year after year when RNS is losing, when RNS is in AA or AAA, when RNS has good teams and when RNS has bad teams. Bring it up in every season and every sport. Same thing when FCA, SC, MC have good and bad years and whenever private schoosl sign up for an NBIAA sport: keep bringing it up. Except I don't think that will happen. So long as they aren't winning titles and teams in whatever division they play are beating them I don't think anyone minds. No one is complaining about the RNS girls who are getting beat on pretty well in A, all of their student athletes would fall under the criteria of being recruited. So this isn't a concern with the the behaviour; if it was the NBIAA would have dealt with it years ago, or schools would be complaining year in and year out about having to play in leagues with these teams. Its a problem of competition. We are fine with it until they are better than we like, then they should play someone else or something should be done about it.
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BeeBall4Lifee



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:18 am

CoachDJR wrote:
I know its going you. You know its going on. The NBIAA knows its going on. One of the requirements of attending RNS is participation daily in sport or phyiscal  programming. Every student being recruited to RNS is a student-athlete or athlete-student. If you want what you are talking about enforced then schools like RNS, FCA,etc just can't participate in NBIAA sports. Everytime they have a kid fill out a bursary or scholarship form, everytime a recruiter or school officials gives out information to a parent they are in violation of this rule. If it was going to be enforced this way for private schools it would have been enforced that way long ago. The issue is well past "are private schools recruiting" and "does the NBIAA mind".  At RNS specifically its already gone on in other sports and now it is just hitting basketball.

Option 1 - The AGM turns into  a gong show of schools complaining, debate about procedure and protocal and the NBIAA trying to establish what can and can't be talked about on the AGM floor. Every gets a piece of what they want said said. The NBIAA makes its own decisions. RNS moves up to AA or AAA next year which they were likely going to do anyway.

Option 2 - You play the team across from you and you teach kids and everyone else you can to control controllables.


Ask them to overcome teams having good players the same way smaller schools with less committed programs have to ask their kids to: Nackawic vs Harvey, Oromocto vs Fredericton High, Bonar Law vs Woodstock . . . when those teams are out matched and out gunned no one jumps to their defense. We attack RNS because despite doing the same things they've done for years (only more strategically and in basketball) and are clearly allowed to do or it wouldn't have gone on this long,  now kids having to compete against them is unfair because they are good??

If this is an anti-private school in NBIAA  or really an anti-recruiting movement that really bothers people then lets keep bringing it up year after year when RNS is losing, when RNS is in AA or AAA, when  RNS has good teams and when RNS has bad teams. Bring it up in every season and every sport. Same thing when FCA, SC, MC have good and bad years and whenever private schoosl sign up for an NBIAA sport: keep bringing it up. Except I don't think that will happen. So long as they aren't winning titles and teams in whatever division they play are beating them I don't think anyone minds. No one is complaining about the RNS girls who are getting beat on pretty well in A, all of their student athletes would fall under the criteria of being recruited. So this isn't a concern with the the behaviour; if it was the NBIAA would have dealt with it years ago, or schools would be complaining year in and year out about having to play in leagues with these teams. Its a problem of competition. We are fine with it until they are better than we like, then they should play someone else or something should be done about it.

Try explaining to kids who have been playing in their local basketball associations for 10-12 years that it's ok to break the rules. We are not attacking RNS because they have the best players , we are pointing out that they way they got the best players is against NBIAA rules. Are you telling me that schools with "less committed programs" should be allowed to break the rules? Is that good for basketball in New Brunswick?

Just because you don't get caught speeding today does it make it legal and ok to continue doing it or are you breaking the rules? Bi-laws and rules are put in place to be followed and if they are no longer relevant then they need to be changed.....but in this case the rules are VERY clear and still stand and NBIAA should be looking at them otherwise they open themselves to criticism and should be held accountable for their actions or NON-actions!

I have no issue at all with a private school recruiting the most brilliant minds to attend their school as STUDENTS. Your example of FCS, SC, MC as private school recruiters of high profile athletes is weak at best and misleading at worst. I am talking about schools specifically targeting their recruiting towards high profile athlete-students who play for provincial teams. You say no one complains when they are losing , well are they losing when they are not recruiting high level athletes?

Have you even bothered to check the "A" standings??? Both RNS teams are 7-2 in league games so I hardly think they are "getting beat on pretty well in A".....you say all their student athletes fall under the same criteria of being recruited.......so you can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that all student athletes have received this special tuition arrangement equally?

You keep repeating that we are fine with it until they are better than we like or they should play someone else......I have never been "fine" with people using shortcuts to get ahead in life and trampling on others to do it.....and neither should NBIAA as I can only assume these bi-laws and rules were put in place to protect all the players in the system.
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Hardfouls



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:06 am

Saint John High School and St. Malachy's have an "open house" each spring for potential incoming freshmen. During those events each school promotes the advantages of attending their facility and sports programs are part of that pitch. I'm sure that there are plenty of basketball (and football) players who have applied to transfer to SJHS because of that "recruiting" visit. I'm sure something similar goes on in Moncton each year as high schools in that area are so close together as well. As far as I know, this is a non-issue at the AAA level.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:50 am

BeeBall4Lifee wrote:
The excerpt below is taken from the N.B.I.A.A 2014-2015 Handbook

O.R. 3 - ELIGIBILITY & RECRUITMENT

3.4 The NBIAA strongly condemns any attempt to recruit a student-athlete into a member school. A recruiting prohibition discourages exploitation of students: prevents over-emphasis of athletics; gives average student-athletes more opportunity to participate; discourages adults from jeopardizing a student’s eligibility and prevents misuse of athletic programs.
1.  Definition: recruiting is defined as a representative of a school, either directly or through another party, encouraging a student to attend a school other than that in whose catchment area he or she resides, for the purpose of being involved in extracurricular sport. The school representative could be a teacher, administrator, school district employee, school employee, student, parent, alumnus or any person representing themselves as a school
contact.
2.  Indicators of Recruiting: there are many legitimate times that a school representative and/or coach of a school team will be in contact with students from another school. Therefore, indicators of recruiting have been developed to provide parameters of behaviour expectations for coaches and other school representative(s). For brevity, the term “coach” is used, but the policy applies equally to coaches or any other school representatives as listed above.
a) a coach shall not initiate contact with any student who does not attend, or does not directly feed into the coach’s school, in order to suggest, encourage or explain a transfer to a different school.
b) a coach shall not encourage any other person, including past and present players, to contact any student to suggest, encourage or explain a transfer to a different school.
d) a coach shall not permit a student who is not currently enrolled at the coach’s school, or whose present school does not directly feed into the coach’s school, to attend “open gym” at the coach’s school or attend spring or summer practices, games or camps specifically designated for enrolled students.
e) a coach shall not entice a student who is not currently enrolled at the coach’s school, or whose present school does not directly feed into the coach’s school, into transferring to the coach’s school. Examples of the applicable situations are listed below, but are not limited to:
i. Providing particular inducements such a preferential accommodation, reduced fees or employment at any camp program
ii. allowing the non-enrolled student to accompany the team to a school or team function, or by offering a discounted or special admission to any school function, including team games
iii. providing a non-enrolled student with team plans, practice outlines or game plans
iv. providing transportation, equipment, clothing/footwear or financial inducement in order to facilitate a non-enrolled student’s involvement in out-of-season contests, leagues, camps, clinics or related programs
v. inviting or allowing a student who is transferring to the coach’s school to reside with the coach (and/or coach’s family) who is not the student’s parent or legal guardian or being financially supported in anyway by a coach or institution
vi. a coach shall not use an evaluation process from an out-of-season program or camp to suggest that a student transfer to any other school other than the one at which he or she is currently enrolled or into which they will directly feed
g) offering monetary or transportation assistance to a student, parent or guardian (including fees, tuition, bus passes or other allowances or waivers). Provided however, that for the purposes of these regulations,waiver or any fee ordinarily charge to an international student by a school, shall not necessarily be considered undue influence or recruitment. Provided further that, when determining whether undue influence or recruitment exists, the NBIAA Executive shall be entitled to consider whether such fees are waived for students not involved in athletic activities.

If a person has knowledge of undue influence or recruitment, as defined herein and allegedly committed by any other student, coach, teacher, school staff, or administrative personnel connected with an NBIAA member school, he/she shall provide written notice of the allegation of undue influence or recruitment to the Executive Director.

Sanctions and Penalties: Upon reporting of a recruiting violation in writing to the NBIAA, the Executive Director shall initiate an investigation of the allegations contained in the written notice. The Executive Director will present the written complaint to the school involved and require a written response from the Principal by 4:00 PM of the next business day.
Any school staff or administrative personnel of the school involved, who fails or refuses to cooperate with and assist in the investigation conducted by the Executive Director, may result in the team being excluded from all competition or subject to alternative penalties as determined by the NBIAA Executive Committee.

Should the investigation result in confirmation of recruiting, the NBIAA Executive committee will review the infraction and sanctions may range from:
1. The player and / or team may be ineligible for participation in NBIAA provincial playoffs within the same season of play.
2. Be fined up to $1000.00
3. Have the head coach ruled ineligible for participation within the CURRENT and NEXT season of play.
4. Be subject to any or all of the above mentioned penalties or to alternative penalties as determined by the NBIAA Executive Committee.

This is the NBIAA policy you want upheld. I'm ok with that so long as we understand what that means.

They are recruiting:


Indicators of Recruiting: there are many legitimate times that a school representative and/or coach of a school team will be in contact with students from another school. Therefore, indicators of recruiting have been developed to provide parameters of behaviour expectations for coaches and other school representative(s). For brevity, the term “coach” is used, but the policy applies equally to coaches or any other school representatives as listed above.
a) a coach shall not initiate contact with any student who does not attend, or does not directly feed into the coach’s school, in order to suggest, encourage or explain a transfer to a different school.


So everytime RNS or any other private school has a school representative, alumni, student, employee. Contact a student in order to suggest or encourage them to attend RNS (or any other private school) they are recruiting. Now we can make the argument that this is only supposed to apply specifically for the recruitment of athletes, but that seems to create a grey area that is even more difficult to adjudicate. But lets say we are only talking about athletes only. So in the case of RNS students who are recruited are required to participate in sports, so all recruitment is connected to athletics.

They are recruiting when: they hire a coach to recruit and scout they, when they pay someone to create a web page that entices and informs people about their school, when a former students parent suggests they attend, when a teacher reccomends they attend, etc, etc They are recruiting. The only way RNS or any other private school gets students is recruiting. They have no one who directly feeds into their schools because they are  private, so all of these communications according to the policy are recruitment.

So they are always recruiting. So they are always in violation of the policy. Now it comes down to this:

1- Does the NBIAA expect private schools to adhere to the policy as written. As written, I would say no because then every student, every team, every player  at RNS would be in violation. Since they allow them to have teams and don't sanction them they are clearly not expected to follow the recruitment policy as written.

2 - If our concern is with the fact they are offering money/scholarships to student athletes. THen we are not upset about them recruiting or violating the recruitment policy. We are upset with them violating one of the terms of the policy.  Are we ok with teams recruiting so long as they don't offer them money? Or saying they can recruit them so long as they are not great a sports? That is not being anti-recruitment or asking for rules be followed. Its saying you can recruit just don't do it well, be affluent or actually recruit anyone any good.

Which comes back to my point based on the rule to which you are asking the NBIAA to be held accountable. Every private school in NB is in violation of this recruitment policy. As some have suggested there are even public school holding recruitment events for students. If you want the policy upheld because its policy I'm fine with that. Understand that as written no private schools could field teams in the NBIAA, and apparently according Hardfouls several AAA schoosl would also face sanctions.

Now if you are willing to allow them to play and participate understanding that they have to violate the recruitment policy in order to do so, it seems counter intuitive to be upset when the more resourceful (in all meanings of that word) schools end up being better at recruiting and the sports/classes/musicals they recruit for.

If we are allowing all private schools to violate (them-which we do) why are we are upset about advantages that one school has in doing it. Lots of schools and communities have advantages others don't: 4 gyms vs 1 gym. Pool of talented coaches. Buisness/Sponsorship support. Schools that allow or disallow gym access, budgets, transportation, travel, differing academic restrcitions. etc. etc. Thats not defending rules thats a classification/competitive  concern.

IF we want to cry foul in terms of rule breaking fair enough. If we are willing to apply the rules as written to everyone it applies to. Clearly the NBIAA is not. If we want them held accountable to change the rule or enforce it I can buy that. I don't think we can logically be ok with schools who violate the rules but aren't very good at it or lack resources being allowed to violate, and only targeting or punishing the ones who do it and gain competitive advantage.


Last edited by CoachDJR on Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Clarification)
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BeeBall4Lifee



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:27 pm

Coach DJR you fail to understand the difference between recruiting an individual to become a student at an educational institution who subsequently plays extracurricular sports while attending that school and those individuals who are specifically sought out or targeted for their athletic abilities by schools to prop up or increase their schools stature , all the while offering huge incentives to these individuals solely based on their "on the court" abilities in order to entice them to attend their school..........I realize that you are not going to change your stance on this as I see you are firmly on the "other" side of the argument so I will no longer debate the issue with you....let's agree to disagree and move on.
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HuskiesForever



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:31 pm

Who the heck cares about this anyway. It really doesnt matter cause when Hartland meets RNS in regionals we are going to walk all over them, it doesnt matter if they have 2 imports or 5 they are going down! We are playing better schools then they have all year and will dominate them. BOOK IT!
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Stripes11



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:41 pm

Question: Are the RNS hockey teams (boys and girls) not allowed to play NBIAA, or do they just choose not to? Have they actually been outlawed as long as they are handing out scholarships to athlete-students?

If they have been outlawed, then it seems to me that this should be a no-brainer. How it hasn't happened sooner is a shame but is reality due to them being irrelevant on the NB basketball scene.

A school (private or public) should never be allowed to entice students with scholarships/money/housing/food/clothing/etc. and have them play in the same league as everyone else in the province.

BOOK IT!.... or something
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:46 pm

My understanding is once they started recruiting for exclusively hockey purposes they quickly ascended from AA to AAA and eventually chose to no longer play NBIAA. If someone in an actual positions knows better they can correct

But as far as I'm aware in every sport RNS has athletes playing who have been recruited. I don't know how many were recruited as athletes first or students first or both. I'm also not sure how many of those students who are playing sports are recieving bursaries/discounts and how many are for sports, school, leadership, financial reasons, ties to school etc. I know that with no way to deliniate between all of these the NBIAA appears historically and currently to fall on the side of "they are a private school - its different". They didn't ban them from playing hockey, and if I'm wrong you've still got recruited paid for hockey athletes eligible to play on their soccer/rugby/basketball/ cross country teams. So they've already got recruited athlete-students/ student-athletes on campus playing sports in the NBIAA. This has been common practice and expectation vsRNS which I guess has been my point all along. You aren't sort of pregnant or a little bit pregnant. If the NBIAA didn't want recruited athletes playing NBIAA sport they wouldn't be, since they are and have been for an extended period of time I'm assuming that means in the case of private schools they are ok with it.

I also don't hear cries from the teams playing the RNS girls basketball team, I don't hear outrage from the AA soccer and rugby teams that have to play them. Maybe because they haven't done as good a job of recruiting those types of athletes so the schools playing them aren't upset yet, but they've won soccer, rugby and hockey titles at levels not A with athletes on those teams who've been recruited to the school with the expectation they will play sport. Granted this is a basketball forum but I've never heard soccer,rugby or hockey coaches I know complain about having to play them in the past.
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Powerball



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:59 pm

The only people that are upset are those who rely on having their team handed to them. Heaven forbid you have to do something outside of the short school season to make your program stronger. It's the high school basketball mind set in nb that is holding the players and coaches back. I wonder if wiggins or stauskas or Bennett ever played outside of ontario?
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Metta Peace



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:44 pm

A lot of assumptions and I don't know for sure floating around. Perhaps someone from RNS ( horse's mouth) should make a statement on this issue to clarify things...or would that be the classic case of "let the guilty speak"?
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Coach.Red



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:52 pm

Powerball wrote:
The only people that are upset are those who rely on having their team handed to them. Heaven forbid you have to do something outside of the short school season to make your program stronger. It's the high school basketball mind set in nb that is holding the players and coaches back. I wonder if wiggins or stauskas or Bennett ever played outside of ontario?

How is buying talent a respectable way of improving your program? What happened to home grown talent?
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ballnut



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:38 pm

If your all about winning banners you will never grasp what RNS is trying to do with there program. If your all about developing athletes to there full potential then you completely get what RNS is doing. If this program goes the way they hope it will there will lots of bitching because a lot of elite basketball players will end up there that want to play at the next level. That is the purpose of this type of program is it not. Did any of Canadas recent picks in the nba stay at home and go to there high school down the street no i doubt that. Eventually if successful it probably will be a great thing and not in the nbiaa. Oh yeah it must be all about the money coach red because your boys have no problem taking transfers.
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Coach.Red



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:46 pm

ballnut wrote:
If your all about winning banners you will never grasp what RNS is trying to do with there program. If your all about developing athletes to there full potential then you completely get what RNS is doing. If this program goes the way they hope it will there will lots of bitching because a lot of elite basketball players will end up there that want to play at the next level. That is the purpose of this type of program is it not. Did any of Canadas recent picks in the nba stay at home and go to there high school down the street no i doubt that. Eventually if successful it probably will be a great thing and not in the nbiaa. Oh yeah it must be all about the money coach red because your boys have no problem taking transfers.

We're not talking about any NB players going out of province to play. If we were, then that'd be great. Julian Roche comes to mind, no one put a fuss about him leaving (not that I know of).

I'm all about developing players. My players to be exact, not some out of town kids.

What's this about "my boys" taking transfers? You must be confused.
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BAM



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:06 pm

We get it Husky. You are going to win in Saint John. Heard it the last 20 times you posted it. Your team is so strong and so far ahead of everyone else in A no one else stands a chance.Maybe you should recommend to the coach tomorrow at practice to jump up to AAA to challenge yourself.
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ballnut



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:33 pm

No coach nb players leaving nb isn't great. Hopefully with RNS doing what they are doing will afford athletes like roche to stay close to his family and still have the opportunity to get exposure and get to the next level.
As far as the my TOWN players I've seen you coach out of town players which i think is a great thing. Players should be able to play at the highest of there ability why you keep denying it is beyond me. I must be confused. One thing im not confused about if RNS succeeds it can be nothing but good for the province in the future.
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Metta Peace



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:34 pm

I remember when Grand Manan was in this situation and they took on the challenge and jumped up a class..it wasn't about the husky seeking banner but to play at the highest level to challenge the team. Sign up husky or stay on the swings in the playground , just may find a soother if you look hard enough.
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Coach.Red



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:55 pm

ballnut wrote:
No coach nb players leaving nb isn't  great. Hopefully with RNS doing what they are doing will afford athletes like roche to stay close to his family and still have the opportunity to get exposure and get to the next level.
      As far as the my TOWN players I've seen you coach out of town players which i think is a great thing. Players should be able to play at the highest of there ability why you keep denying it is beyond me. I must be confused. One thing im not confused about if RNS succeeds it can be nothing but good for the province in the future.

Players from out of town who didn't have a team to play for. There is a difference.
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ballnut



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:39 pm

Haha yeah there still there
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Coach.Red



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:52 pm

ballnut wrote:
Haha yeah there still there

ballnut wrote:
... opportunity to get exposure and get to the next level...


I'm confused. You talk about exposure and playing at the next level, yet take a complete 180 towards when it comes to someone doing it.

These kids you talk about, played for us when they were 11, entering their 2nd year mini. How is that even remotely similar to a 15 year old who has played against players from all over Canada?

The two kids moved to our town to attend our high school, to play AAA ball and to play with the kids they've been playing with for 4 years. I'm not sure what you're getting at or what is funny.
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ballnut



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:04 pm

No i said i thought it was great. Anyone that's played for nb has played the.best in canada. Its simple really you bitch about it but your town has done it that's what's funny. We both know it end of story.
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Coach.Red



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:08 pm

ballnut wrote:
 No i said i thought it was great. Anyone that's played for nb has played the.best in canada. Its simple really you bitch about it but your town has done it that's what's funny. We both know it end of story.

You're right. My town is guilty of "recruiting" 11 year olds.
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ballnut



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:17 pm

Coach.Red wrote:
ballnut wrote:
 No i said i thought it was great. Anyone that's played for nb has played the.best in canada. Its simple really you bitch about it but your town has done it that's what's funny. We both know it end of story.

You're right. My town is guilty of "recruiting" 11 year olds.
There not 11 there the same age as the lads your whining about
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Coach.Red



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:22 pm

ballnut wrote:
Coach.Red wrote:
ballnut wrote:
 No i said i thought it was great. Anyone that's played for nb has played the.best in canada. Its simple really you bitch about it but your town has done it that's what's funny. We both know it end of story.

You're right. My town is guilty of "recruiting" 11 year olds.
   There not 11 there the same age as the lads your whining about

Edit: Far enough off topic as is.
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BeeBall4Lifee



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:22 am

ballnut wrote:
Coach.Red wrote:
ballnut wrote:
 No i said i thought it was great. Anyone that's played for nb has played the.best in canada. Its simple really you bitch about it but your town has done it that's what's funny. We both know it end of story.

You're right. My town is guilty of "recruiting" 11 year olds.
   There not 11 there the same age as the lads your whining about

Is this a parent or a player?
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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:46 pm

I've been reading through this discussion as it's gone along and I feel the need to put my 2 cents in. Some of what I'm going to say will have been said be for, but it fits into the train of thought.

First off, it sounds like RNS is looking to build a program similar to their hockey program. If this is the case, they are most definitely not looking for an "A" banner, not that there is anything wrong with an "A" championship, that just isn't their final goal. They aren't even looking for a "AAA" banner if they have the same goal as they did with their hockey program. They are "using" the NBIAA until they have a basketball program strong enough to take to the prep leagues. I'm sorry that this might cause a team 14-17 year old to lose out on winning a banner in the meantime which brings me to my next point.

What is the purpose of your program? Are banners actually the be all end all of high school sport? If so, I find this incredibly sad and a huge issue that needs to be considered by all coaches and ADs (if they're involved in programs). I'm not going to get into having a results oriented philosophy vs. an excellence based philosophy, but I'm sure you'll see where I fit by the end of this. If you're at a school that has a high level program, "A" or "AAA" should you goal be to win banners, or to develop and transition athletes to the next level (university)? I would argue the latter which, honestly, will lead to banners anyway. What about the rest you say? Obviously the majority of athletes aren't moving on to the next level; that's why it's the "next" level. Well, let's teach them, along with the players moving on, the skills that they will use in their lives after high school (What?! Life after high school?! I thought all that matters is winning banners?).

I'm not trying to take anything away from winning a banner. I would have loved to been on a team that went to HS or the AUC for that amazing experience, but I wasn't. For those 14-17 year olds, in a lot of cases, basketball is their life and they do work very hard to get to a stage where they get to play on such a big stage. Let's remember though, they're 14-17. If playing a basketball game at HS for a high school championship is the greatest moment of their life that they might potentially be missing out on, we've got bigger problems than RNS "stealing" a team's spot/banner.

It may not be fair that RNS has found a couple players to strengthen their program in an attempt to become a basketball factory, but RNS has never been about developing home grown athletes or students or whatever else you can do at that school. They don't get to start with a pool at mini and work their way through. Saying that that's what they should be doing is unrealistic.

From their results, they are playing at the right level in the NBIAA and I'm sure if they pick up a couple more strong players next year, they'll move up again. A comparison that hasn't been made with the hockey team (that I recall) is that they also recruit local talent to go through the factory once things get moving. In hockey, this creates more opportunities for players to be drafted to Jr. A or CHL or possibly seen by NCAA schools. In basketball this will create more opportunities for local players to be seen by CIS, ACAA, or NCAA schools, so not only will powerhouse school like FHS, LHHS, KVHS, the list goes on, have an opportunity to play another top school, but more NB players will be exposed to a higher level whether it is because they are recruited to RNS or they play against them in (eventually) a tournament setting.

For those who are outraged and will continue to be outraged, just wait 3 or 4 years and all of your concerns will be irrelevant.
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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Today at 9:08 am

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