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CoachBuckets



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Join date : 2014-10-28

PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:24 am

C-N '06-'09 wrote:
I've been reading through this discussion as it's gone along and I feel the need to put my 2 cents in. Some of what I'm going to say will have been said be for, but it fits into the train of thought.

First off, it sounds like RNS is looking to build a program similar to their hockey program. If this is the case, they are most definitely not looking for an "A" banner, not that there is anything wrong with an "A" championship, that just isn't their final goal. They aren't even looking for a "AAA" banner if they have the same goal as they did with their hockey program. They are "using" the NBIAA until they have a basketball program strong enough to take to the prep leagues. I'm sorry that this might cause a team 14-17 year old to lose out on winning a banner in the meantime which brings me to my next point.

What is the purpose of your program? Are banners actually the be all end all of high school sport? If so, I find this incredibly sad and a huge issue that needs to be considered by all coaches and ADs (if they're involved in programs). I'm not going to get into having a results oriented philosophy vs. an excellence based philosophy, but I'm sure you'll see where I fit by the end of this. If you're at a school that has a high level program, "A" or "AAA" should you goal be to win banners, or to develop and transition athletes to the next level (university)? I would argue the latter which, honestly, will lead to banners anyway. What about the rest you say? Obviously the majority of athletes aren't moving on to the next level; that's why it's the "next" level. Well, let's teach them, along with the players moving on, the skills that they will use in their lives after high school (What?! Life after high school?! I thought all that matters is winning banners?).

I'm not trying to take anything away from winning a banner. I would have loved to been on a team that went to HS or the AUC for that amazing experience, but I wasn't. For those 14-17 year olds, in a lot of cases, basketball is their life and they do work very hard to get to a stage where they get to play on such a big stage. Let's remember though, they're 14-17. If playing a basketball game at HS for a high school championship is the greatest moment of their life that they might potentially be missing out on, we've got bigger problems than RNS "stealing" a team's spot/banner.

It may not be fair that RNS has found a couple players to strengthen their program in an attempt to become a basketball factory, but RNS has never been about developing home grown athletes or students or whatever else you can do at that school. They don't get to start with a pool at mini and work their way through. Saying that that's what they should be doing is unrealistic.

From their results, they are playing at the right level in the NBIAA and I'm sure if they pick up a couple more strong players next year, they'll move up again. A comparison that hasn't been made with the hockey team (that I recall) is that they also recruit local talent to go through the factory once things get moving. In hockey, this creates more opportunities for players to be drafted to Jr. A or CHL or possibly seen by NCAA schools. In basketball this will create more opportunities for local players to be seen by CIS, ACAA, or NCAA schools, so not only will powerhouse school like FHS, LHHS, KVHS, the list goes on, have an opportunity to play another top school, but more NB players will be exposed to a higher level whether it is because they are recruited to RNS or they play against them in (eventually) a tournament setting.

For those who are outraged and will continue to be outraged, just wait 3 or 4 years and all of your concerns will be irrelevant.


This may eventually happen but it is going to take more then 3-4 years. They own one game over Harvey. Like I have said before if Harvey doesn't shoot the ball well they lose, if they do shoot the ball well they win. People just need to calm down about RNS and make a big fuse about it when they are beating FHS, KV, and Leo by double digits.
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Metta Peace



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:49 am

Again, where is the proof with all this. C-n says they are using the NBIAA to develop an eventual prep school type of team, how do you know this is the motive? Recruiting, etc. seems like a lot of assuming. Why hasn't the NBIAA looked into such strong allegations, RNS is a member school and a couple of kids with some basketball talent end up taking private education. This could happen at F'ton Christian or any other private school. When Brittany Gillis went to DPCS there was there this type accusing of recruiting?
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:00 am

Metta Peace wrote:
Again, where is the proof with all this.  C-n says they are using the NBIAA to develop an eventual prep school type of team, how do you know this is the motive?   Recruiting, etc.  seems like a lot of assuming.  Why hasn't the NBIAA looked into such strong allegations, RNS is a member school and a couple of kids with some basketball talent end up taking private education.  This could  happen at F'ton Christian or any other private school.  When Brittany Gillis went to DPCS there was there this type accusing of recruiting?

Proof is anecdotal at this point, in the fact that these weren't the only players approached as members of u15 NB boys team were talked to as well.

This is the same model they used with hockey. Start hiring and recruiting specfically for sport, give scholarships and discounts. Increase school profile and improve sports teams as they get better move up NBIAA divisions until elite non school sport systems invite them or they can offer to compete there.

I would argue the NBIAA is not looking into it because A) they have no way to properly enforce or police whether private schools are recruiting primarily for sport or school other then hersey - They aren't the NCAA hiring investigators, and a multi million dollar corporation they are basically a couple of office executives and a bunch of volunteers. As a result they just let recruiting as a whole pass the board as the nature of private schools and the impossibilty of proving it one way or the other? B) they don't need to look into it because a decision has already been made? They allowed hockey players to be recruited and to play NBIAA sports hockey and other sports included while these athletes were there. Why would they allow it in hockey and other sports just not in basketball. With the precident set why would they change.
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Metta Peace



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:29 am

Seems to me , as a coach, and about to lose a couple of key players. I would have a conversation with those two to find out why. If they mentioned they were talked to by another school about transferring that is all the proof you need as it against the NBIAA policy , it now becomes recruiting. RNS is private but yet a member of the NBIAA, penalty for doing this can be harsh with a possible suspension for a year. If they transferred on their own merits this is different. People are using the words recruited and transferred to loosely, it is either one or the other..
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:03 pm

From where I'm sitting that is the underlying issue. According the to definition of recruitment provided by the NBIAA everything that a private school does to get ANY students to enroll is recruiting. Now whether they do it for sport or school or music or whatever might be hairs that some feel need to be split but the behaviours are the same. The order in which they mention school/sport doesn't change the fact that every other indicator of recruiting is a necessity in private schools. IF you are going to allow them to participate you accept the fact that they inherently recruit.

Now if you want to say they can recruit, just not for sport if they want to participate in the NBIAA, then there are two scenarios that would need to addressing:

1) lets say you've got a great basketball player (could be any sport) who is also a great student. They target him/her as the sort of top end university bound student they want in their institution. Now when (s)he gets approached and recruited as a student (who happens to be an NBIAA allstar or a provincial team player from another province) and then recieves a scholarhip or discount - for academics, for leadership, alumni bursary whatever. You've basically jsut recruited an athlete you've just played with semantics to make it work. As far as I can tell everyone who is opposed to private school recruiting is only opposed to it if they target athletes and then those athletes are incentivized. Nothing else is sensible because the nature of private schools is to recruit. So now we are basically saying they can recruit they just can't say out loud its for athletics or put the word sport on the support they give someone.

2) Lets say they recruit a an athlete for one sport (hockey, lacrosse, judo) who is world class or even just a strong athlete regionally. They bring them in but aren't in violation of NBIAA policies because they aren't registered in those sports with the NBIAA. What if that kid now wants to play on the soccer team or cross country team in their off season. Now you've got a recruited scholarship athlete who is playing NBIAA sports.
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brady12



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:15 pm

Great discussion which is what keeps this forum going, thankfully there are lots of opinions and people take time to share them, some even seem grounded in experience and reality. The private school /Nbiaa discussion started many weeks ago and I shared my opinion " doesn't work for anybody" holds private schools back from where they want to go, places a policing role on Nbiaa already under resourced and can disadvantage hs who work diligently every year (I believe every hs in NB falls in this category) to provide the opportunity for students to experience and grow thru competitive sport.
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HHSLakers_10



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:20 pm

Everyone's saying things about RNS beating harvey by 20 in their gym the facts are that we also beat them by 20 at our gym plus we have a whole different set of tactics for them
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Jumpball



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:25 pm

On another note. FHS had a player that was returning for a second year of grade 12 but was only allowed to return for academics only and not play basketball, so he transfers to another school that will let him play ball. Should NBIAA step in and not allow this person to play or not? It should be academics first. We see this happen a lot in football students fail one compulsory and return for one semester to play football. My hats off to FHS!!
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Coach.Red



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:28 pm

Jumpball wrote:
On another note. FHS had a player that was returning for a second year of grade 12 but was only allowed to return for academics only and not play basketball, so he transfers to another school that will let him play ball. Should NBIAA step in and not allow this person to play or not? It should be academics first. We see this happen a lot in football students fail one compulsory and return for one semester to play football. My hats off to FHS!!

I second this.
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BeeBall4Lifee



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:29 pm

Jumpball wrote:
On another note. FHS had a player that was returning for a second year of grade 12 but was only allowed to return for academics only and not play basketball, so he transfers to another school that will let him play ball. Should NBIAA step in and not allow this person to play or not? It should be academics first. We see this happen a lot in football students fail one compulsory and return for one semester to play football. My hats off to FHS!!

Agreed academics should come before sports.
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ballnut



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:57 pm

BeeBall4Lifee wrote:
Jumpball wrote:
On another note. FHS had a player that was returning for a second year of grade 12 but was only allowed to return for academics only and not play basketball, so he transfers to another school that will let him play ball. Should NBIAA step in and not allow this person to play or not? It should be academics first. We see this happen a lot in football students fail one compulsory and return for one semester to play football. My hats off to FHS!!

Agreed academics should come before sports.
Always
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:27 am

Academics should always be the priority.

That means different things to different people. (Being the first in your family through school, getting into college, getting a university scholarship etc). With that in mind and the impossibilty of dealing with differentiation and inclusionary practices in schools - I would still be in favor of a uniformly apllied NBIAA policy in regards to academics.

While no one is necessarily wrong in situations where one group would take away sports, while others use it as a carrot. I respect the stand FHS took, but they also chose to go above and beyond the rules laid out by NBIAA. I'm ok with a higher standard. The team or school using it as a carrot may also be motivated by good intentions and concern for student academics, and is playing within the scope of the rules.
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Metta Peace



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:03 pm

FHS was wrong in their decision..fifth year students are allowed to return to fulfill their academic requirements to graduate and are eligible for NBIAA activities. Had the student graduated and wanted to comeback to upgrade then they are not allowed. Lucky they were not challenged on this , especially if the player was good enough to be selected...great Human rights issue for some parents, and pretty sure they would have won out. I don't necessarily agree with the motives that some student/athletes use but coach's and administrators are victims of a flawed system. Then again , this ruling just changed last year , before returning 5th year students were required to carry a full compliment of courses in order to play.
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CoachBuckets



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:53 am

Metta Peace wrote:
FHS was wrong in their decision..fifth year students are allowed to return to fulfill their academic requirements to graduate and are eligible for NBIAA activities.  Had the student graduated and wanted to comeback to upgrade then they are not allowed.  Lucky they were not challenged on this , especially if the player was good enough to be selected...great Human rights issue for some parents, and pretty sure they would have won out.  I don't necessarily agree with the motives that some student/athletes use but coach's and administrators are victims of a flawed system.  Then again , this ruling just changed last year , before returning 5th year students were required to carry a full compliment of courses in order to play.


It's not that FHS "was wrong" with their decision, it was a school and coaches decision from what I have heard. And I agree with them for not letting the kid play, if he is failing bad and failing courses he shouldn't be then something is distracting them. Students should always have academics before anything.
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BeeBall4Lifee



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:02 am

remember folks it's S-T-U-D-E-N-T athlete not the other way around.
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baller24



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:40 am

From what I understand, this athlete that transferred to Leo Hayes was not in good academic standing when he first arrived for basketball. The coach and the school did some intensive tutoring with a few of their athletes to get them caught and get the grades to where they needed to be.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:11 am

Lets get some of these kids and coaches back in the gym so they can burn off some steam . . .
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Metta Peace



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:04 am

The thread which started was missing some key information on why he was not allowed to participate.  Teams do have academic requirements and signed contracts.  There are a multitude of reasons why students return and not graduate.  Having said that each school year or term students start with a clean slate and new credit courses.  Sounds like this student had returned and wasn't doing well when the basketball season started, hard to believe that decision would be made the first week of September.  Transferring mid-stream without a parent move would require sitting out of activities for a 45 school day period.  Again , missing info.
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Ballfan14



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:33 pm

Heard there was a thriller at JC today against harvey?
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BeeBall4Lifee



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:53 pm

Ballfan14 wrote:
Heard there was a thriller at JC today against harvey?

I heard that the refereeing played a pretty big part in most of the game....Harvey was up 19-6 after 5 minutes and then the whistle started to blow and by halftime the calls were 16-2 in John Caldwells favour, three of Harvey's starters each had 3 fouls at half and Harvey was outscored 48-8 in the last 5 minutes of the first quarter until halftime when they were down 54-27......BUT Harvey showed big heart and fought back to win 85-82 even with their leading scorer fouled out with 8 minutes left.
A great comeback win for  the Lakers playing against some tough odds....Nice job boys!!!!
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Ballfan14



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:01 pm

I'm not sure the refs had a big part in this from what I heard, one jc player was fouled out, as was McCarthy had 4 and hambrook had 3-4 as well. Both teams were in bonus 3/4 quarters in the game? I could be mistaken. No doubt harvey is an extremely talented team, but I do believe people overestimated them, saying they'd coast their way to a banner this season. Teams like RNS, Jc and possibly Hartland could be a factor as well, they are rising to the occasion!
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BeeBall4Lifee



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:10 pm

Ballfan14 wrote:
I'm not sure the refs had a big part in this from what I heard, one jc player was fouled out, as was McCarthy had 4 and hambrook had 3-4 as well. Both teams were in bonus 3/4 quarters in the game? I could be mistaken. No doubt harvey is an extremely talented team, but I do believe people overestimated them, saying they'd coast their way to a banner this season. Teams like RNS, Jc and possibly Hartland could be a factor as well, they are rising to the occasion!

I was told that the fouls were pretty one sided at halftime that's pretty substantial .....but that being said I thought all year long that it was probably a 4 or 5 team race in A.
I'm looking forward to the regional tournament !!!!
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celtic



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:36 am

BeeBall4Lifee wrote:
Ballfan14 wrote:
I'm not sure the refs had a big part in this from what I heard, one jc player was fouled out, as was McCarthy had 4 and hambrook had 3-4 as well. Both teams were in bonus 3/4 quarters in the game? I could be mistaken. No doubt harvey is an extremely talented team, but I do believe people overestimated them, saying they'd coast their way to a banner this season. Teams like RNS, Jc and possibly Hartland could be a factor as well, they are rising to the occasion!

I was told that the fouls were pretty one sided at halftime that's pretty substantial .....but that being said I thought all year long that it was probably a 4 or 5 team race in A.
I'm looking forward to the regional tournament !!!!

I am not sure who the refs were but I am pretty sure if the fouls were 1 sided...it is because Harvey probably fouled more! Contrary to popular belief, refs really don't care who wins and actually don't like the foul count to be 5-0 but sometimes that is just how it is. Some teams play more aggressive defense, etc.
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Birdman33



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:17 am

celtic wrote:
BeeBall4Lifee wrote:
Ballfan14 wrote:
I'm not sure the refs had a big part in this from what I heard, one jc player was fouled out, as was McCarthy had 4 and hambrook had 3-4 as well. Both teams were in bonus 3/4 quarters in the game? I could be mistaken. No doubt harvey is an extremely talented team, but I do believe people overestimated them, saying they'd coast their way to a banner this season. Teams like RNS, Jc and possibly Hartland could be a factor as well, they are rising to the occasion!

I was told that the fouls were pretty one sided at halftime that's pretty substantial .....but that being said I thought all year long that it was probably a 4 or 5 team race in A.
I'm looking forward to the regional tournament !!!!

I am not sure who the refs were but I am pretty sure if the fouls were 1 sided...it is because Harvey probably fouled more! Contrary to popular belief, refs really don't care who wins and actually don't like the foul count to be 5-0 but sometimes that is just how it is. Some teams play more aggressive defense, etc.

Yeah,generally the team thats attacking the basket aggresively gets more foul calls. I wonder if that was the case?
There must have been some pile of whining going on!
Where are the Grand Falls people on here? Shouldn't they be complaining about the refereeing during the great Harvey comeback?
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coachnb6



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PostSubject: Re: Single A Talk   Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:41 am

Birdman33 wrote:
celtic wrote:
BeeBall4Lifee wrote:
Ballfan14 wrote:
I'm not sure the refs had a big part in this from what I heard, one jc player was fouled out, as was McCarthy had 4 and hambrook had 3-4 as well. Both teams were in bonus 3/4 quarters in the game? I could be mistaken. No doubt harvey is an extremely talented team, but I do believe people overestimated them, saying they'd coast their way to a banner this season. Teams like RNS, Jc and possibly Hartland could be a factor as well, they are rising to the occasion!

I was told that the fouls were pretty one sided at halftime that's pretty substantial .....but that being said I thought all year long that it was probably a 4 or 5 team race in A.
I'm looking forward to the regional tournament !!!!

I am not sure who the refs were but I am pretty sure if the fouls were 1 sided...it is because Harvey probably fouled more! Contrary to popular belief, refs really don't care who wins and actually don't like the foul count to be 5-0 but sometimes that is just how it is. Some teams play more aggressive defense, etc.

Yeah,generally the team thats attacking the basket aggresively gets more foul calls. I wonder if that was the case?
There must have been some pile of whining going on!
Where are the Grand Falls people on here? Shouldn't they be complaining about the refereeing during the great Harvey comeback?

I see scores from Stanley winning games easily! I wouldn't count them out yet!
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