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 3A Boys Season Preview

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12321



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:25 pm

It looks like its about right. I would have swapped some teams around in that second tier but overall its not too bad. I do have a problem with the top 2. Someone will have to explain to me how losing 3 games to really good 4A teams (ranked 4, 7 and unranked) and beating only 1 really good 4A team (ranked 7) is better than beating 2 really good 4A teams (both HM) and losing 0 games. Since when is losing games preferred to winning games?

Lets say the Chestermere goes undefeated for the entire season playing against a variety of teams including top teams throughout the province and Leduc only loses to the top teams in Edmonton. Does Leduc stay #1 and if not, why? Based on the logic used in the first ranking, that's what should happen but everyone knows that wouldn't be right. So why is that the right call for the first ranking?

The same could be said of EC vs SPA. Both have identical records against good teams - 7 losses and 0 wins. The difference is that SPA has only played 1 game against weaker teams and won whereas EC has 4 games against weaker teams, all wins. EC goes 5 and SPA gets left off completely. If they're #5 because of the level of competition of their losses, why not judge SPA the same way?
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svcoach90



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:11 pm

I find it enthralling that Chestermere being the defending 3A provincial champs, losing only one graduating player off last years team, losing only one game to a 3A school last year and havent lost this year to any team can still be unseeded as a #1ranked team.

My top FIVE would be ranked as such
1Chestermere( for reasons above)
2HTA-(return crucial players including star PG)
3Leduc (played a solid schedule some losses already)
4Sturgeon ( only big losses to #1 4A school twice and one to another 4A school. Good wins over ranked or HM 3A teams.
5Cochrane (one loss to an out of province team)

Leduc should have to beat a south central team before being placed above them all. If rankings are based on history and such they should have a look at such.
Love to see a home and home with Leduc and Chestermere or HTA. That would help things.
Thoughts?
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12321



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:47 am

I completely agree with you sccoach90. Chestermere should have been #1. I completely disagree that HTA should have been #2. The numbers don't support that and the games I saw them play don't support that either. But Leduc at #1 was a complete botch by the rankers. I do have a theory. It involves the unfounded belief that Edmonton teams are superior to southern Alberta teams, a single ranker from the south and lastly, a bus. It's not a conspiracy. It is a concession. Perhaps HTAbball can enlighten us on how that went down.

SCA lost to WC last night. It proves my point that WC would be perennial 3A powers if politics were left off the court. Unfortunately it's not the case and I'd say that those same politics are responsible for Chestermere's #2 ranking.

However, just to be honest you should come clean that Chestermere lost 2 key starters from last years team, not 1 graduating player. And to say you are missing 2 key starters until after Christmas this year was a big stretch. Perhaps some politics being played out on hoop life too.
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svcoach90



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:20 pm

Your absolutely right two starters were lost from last years team.t. My bad on the error. Not trying to pull wool over your eyes.  However in my opinion the other starting spot has been filled as good or better than last year.

There are two starters that they have been without for sometime. One was hurt before the Cardston tournament(in george mac game) and played no minutes that weekend. The starting PG hasnt played a single minute this year. Its hard to play a kid with two broken wrists. He will be back in the New Year and should look to improve the back court.
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svcoach90



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:44 pm

Cardston(HM)beat lci(#10) and ross shep(#4) in consecutive weekends. Lci beat swc (#1). Magrath(HM)beat Cardston(HM).
Should be huge shake ups in 4A ranked ng already. And Chestermere(#2 3A)beat Magrath by 7 and Cardston by 12. 3A rankings should but wont change due to this. It just goes to show that maybe the 3A ranking may be off....
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For Three



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:10 pm

Making those comparisons doesn't mean that much if the 2 teams you are trying to compare both won. The easy way to compare it is if a team has not lost they should be ranked higher than a team that has lost. Games against teams like Mount Vernon from NY or Kelowna Secondary at the REB who are from outside of Alberta shouldn't count as a loss for making a ranking of Alberta teams. If your team hasn't lost you should be ranked higher than a team that has lost. It should be about winning, not about who you've lost to.
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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:28 pm

You're preaching to the choir svcoach90. Anyone who seriously looks at those scores knows you should have been #1. This has nothing to do with anything other than politics. You got sold out by HTAbball who upped their ranking by overranking Leduc and the unranked in 4A St Francis comparison games who Leduc and HTA both lost to. HTAbball isn't representing the south. He is representing HTA. He gave it to Leduc so he could get 3rd instead of 5th or 6th. If you want to make a case, give him a call. You know who he is.
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HTAbball



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:58 am

First of all, I am not the ranker as I am not the coach. Secondly, at the end of the day rankings are unimportant because all that matters is who is holding the championship trophy at provincials . I find rankings are more of a measuring stick used to find the current level of teams throughout the province. We have a big 3A tournament coming up at HTA in a couple weeks as well which I will post the scores on here.
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12321



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:09 pm

That's funny. You don't think that rankings have anything to do with seeding teams at provincials, zones or tournaments throughout the year? It you really believe that you can prove it by not over ranking yourself at the semester break.

Hopefully you have Leduc, Chestermere, Strathcona Christian Academy, Edmonton Christian, Cochrane, Sturgeon and St. Joseph at your home tournament and if you do I'll be curious to see how you seed the teams for the draw.
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HTAbball



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:34 pm

As I have already said I am not the ranker. I did not say that provincial ranking is not used in seeding provincials. I said that in the end the best team will win provincials regardless of ranking.

Most tournaments do not use seeding. If that was the case Raymond would have had to play LCI or Ainlay in the first round. Most tournaments are set up so that the home team has the best chance to make the final.
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2guard14



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:18 pm

Before you start giving the title to an Edmonton or Calgary team, know 3A is usually won by teams from south central and central for the last several yrs. 3A is also far more unpredictable than 4A. It has always been very competitive and tight where as 4A goes almost always as predicted. Edmonton Christian is the only city team (Edmonton or Calgary) to win it all (3A)in the last 10 yrs. As a matter of fact you can count on one hand the number of times these 2 zones have even made it to the top 4 in provincials in the last 10 yrs. Check it. Alberta High School Athletic Assoc. archives.
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For Three



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:47 am

That is surprising. I would have thought Edmonton would have had better results in the last 10 years since Edmonton's 3A teams have always played in 2 (now 1) of the toughest leagues in the province.

In the 3A championship game since 2004 there has only been 1 Edmonton team to compete 2 years ago and they won so Edmonton has a perfect 1-0 record. Other zones are south central with 14 appearances and have a 7-7 record with 5 of the losses against other south central zone teams, central has 5 appearances (2-3) and the south has 2 appearances (1-1). The top teams since 2004 are Cochrane with 4 appearances (2-2) and in 3 of the last 4 championship games, Holy Trinity Academy with 4 appearances (1-3) but none since 2008, and Chestermere with 3 appearances (3-0) including last year.

South central teams don't play in the calgary league so how do they have strong teams while playing in leagues where they play subpar competition?
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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:05 am

I'm not sure subpar is accurate, at least not historically. It looks like they don't have a big league schedule so tournaments have to be key and being close to Calgary its probably a safe assumption to say SC zone teams play most of their games against Calgary teams.

This year Edmonton has 18 3A teams, a big jump from previous years and that shows in the top 10 with 5 from Edmonton. I think there should be 6. South Central has 10 3A teams, Central has 7 3A teams.
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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:21 am

Its unfortunate that a few teams don't feel it necessary to post their losses (Chestermere, Sturgeon, EC, St Albert) or even wins if the wins don't make them look good. Its obviously a way to try to make them look better for ranking purposes. I still think there should be some guidelines for the rankers to be able to penalize teams for trying to cheat the system.
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456654



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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:19 pm

Just curious what games Chestermere haven't reported. As far as I know they have won the Highwood, Cardston, and HTA tournaments. And according to the Rockyview website they are undefeated in league play.
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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:02 pm

Generally not reporting scores is more of a 3A thing than 4A for ranking since 3A teams lose to 4A teams who don't post at all. Out of province scores are often not reported just so they look better. The rule is teams must report all of their game scores right through to the end of zones. EXNET doesn't work otherwise. ASAA needs to have penalties in place for teams who don't post ALL scores.

Chestermere has a profile set up on MaxPreps so they had a tournament in the states. It doesn't mean that much for both their wins and losses since they don't compare to anyone but they are games that should be reported. Sturgeon lost to an out of province team they haven't reported. Again it doesn't mean that much for comparison but its still a loss. EC lost 2 games at Paul Kane they haven't reported and since the teams they lost to were weaker 4A teams they aren't posting. I have no idea why St Albert wouldn't post their scores since the coach is a ranker but its obvious they're missing scores.

Imagine if a southern alberta team like LCI were to go down to Montana every weekend in November and over the Christmas break. They would easily get an extra 10-15 games of top 10 4A calibre competition with no connection to ranking without having to report it or even having it count toward their total for the year and they could do that every year if they really wanted to.

Sanctioned ASAA tournaments out of province or with teams coming from out of province are reported and listed with ASAA.
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PostSubject: Re: 3A Boys Season Preview   Today at 9:04 am

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