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 JV - Varsity debate

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Stripes11



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PostSubject: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:34 pm

I just noticed that Carleton North boys won the Black and Yellow JV tournament over the weekend over some of the better JV programs in the province.

I'm not that close to the situation as I do not really follow JV in the province but I'm very confused because of the calibre of Carleton North's Varsity program. I have seen them play a few times and know they have been bitten by the injury bug but have to ask the question, "why are these great JV players not playing varsity?"

This would be completely different if CN had one of the top Varsity programs in the province as well and they were still winning consistently in JV.

Don't get me wrong, CN has built a solid varsity program under young head coach Jamie Gray and he does a great job. I am curious to see if this is his decision to leave these players that are scoring 35-45 ppg in JV for another year of seasoning or if there is another factor at work in this equation.

Feel free to discuss.
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Coach.Red



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:49 pm

It could also come down to a player decision to stay down and play JV.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:57 pm

I can't speak to the CNHS situation but I know that each school tends to have its own guidelines and procedures.

Some schools simply have open tryouts and the best players make varsity. If you've got enough left over to field a JV or can find enough they field one.

Other schools have seperate tryouts and players can or must select which teams they are trying out for.

Some schools go so far as to limit 9 and 10's from playing varsity unless numbers require.Other schools put the priority on fielding two teams vs fielding a competitive team. Rather keep everyone involved somehow then compete at any one level. I've even seen schools sacrifice their varsity program either talent wise or existance to have a great JV team.

I know at our school 9 and 10's do not have to attend varsity tryouts and cannot be pressured to, it must be athletes choice. Varsity teams here cannot even take ninth graders unless the JV coach, their parents and admin agree.

In a lot of cases age class basketball has kids coming up playing with kids in their age group only the whole way through school. JV is often NOT looked at by parents and in some cases I'm sure administrators as Junior Varsity (supplementing Varsity) but rather 9-10 basketball and varsity is 11-12.

Reality is that is todays climate if a parent and/ kid doesn't want to play varsity in Grade 9-10 and chooses to play JV there is very little anyone can do. I'm also sure there are probably ad's and admin out there reitcent to deal with the cutting of grade 11-12 aged players at the expense of younger kids so there is bound to be pressure in some situations to retain older kids and varsity and leave younger kids down regardless.

Bottom line is there is no universal expectation, role, and system for how JV works. Which is the reason I hear more and more people complaining that is doesn't work. Development teams vs competitive teams. Best vs rest. Teams not registering teams because its too competitive. Teams registering teams just to have a team then putting them in competitive leagues to get games. Don't get me started on parents concerns with 10th graders playing against middle school aged kids at small schools (if kids in grade 7-8 are in the building the often play JV at A's schools and small AA).
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poolie



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PostSubject: JV   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:10 pm

One male student at JMH said he only wanted to play JV ball and playing Varsity wasnt going to be considered. We offered to red shirt the kid so he wouldnt loose a year of basketball also a no go. Guess what.... that poor young lad isnt playing Basketball at all this year. We only had 14 boys total come out . Our Varsity took the 13 boys that wanted to play. Unfortuantely there just wasnt enough for two teams to allow for greater devolopement of some JV players. We are doing our best with the numbers that we have.
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Ballforlife12345



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:14 pm

The 5 core grade 10 boys at CNHS decided themselves to stay down
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Common Sense



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:22 pm

Ballforlife12345 wrote:
The 5 core grade 10 boys at CNHS decided themselves to stay down

Don't kid yourself everyone. CN JV has two players who would start varsity and probably win AA provincials. No question. This is not about team rules or school guidelines, this is about EGO. 100% Coach's EGO.

....and this is the same coach who is notorious for full court pressing far inferior teams.....for what purpose?

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iknowmorethanyou



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:25 pm

It's because they have raised a culture within the CN school that tells kids it's better for them to stay and play JV against weaker competition so they can "have fun" and "win banners". These kids are convinced that winning at JV is just as good as winning at varsity, so they stay down and think they are accomplishing something.

I think there is a need for some kids to play a year or two in JV, however the Varsity team should always be allowed to the take the players they deem the "best" for the program. JV should get the kids that are left over and the focus should be on player development, rather than chasing meaningless tournament wins over AAA teams with Varsity caliber players!
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Ballforlife12345



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:27 pm

dont agree. I know the guys on the JV team and they all wanted to stay down and win there 4th consecutive AA championship
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Ballforlife12345



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:28 pm

I agree with u iknowmorethanyou
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Stripes11



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:31 pm

Why not win a Varsity championship and actually make yourself a lot better by playing against the best players in the province if its a possibility?
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iknowmorethanyou



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:32 pm

Ballforlife12345 wrote:
dont agree. I know the guys on the JV team and they all wanted to stay down and win there 4th consecutive AA championship

AA Championships are won in varsity, not JV. Winning 4 straight championships with Varsity players in JV is not an accomplishment....at all...not even close
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iknowmorethanyou



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:34 pm

Stripes11 wrote:
Why not win a Varsity championship and actually make yourself a lot better by playing against the best players in the province if its a possibility?

The Million Dollar Question!! The Answer - The CN JV Coaches are convincing these kids that taking the easier way is the better way. Why push yourself at varsity and possibly fail...when you could crush everyone by 50 points in JV....sad sad state of affairs at CNHS right now.
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Stripes11



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:36 pm

If the Golden State Warriors D league team won the D League Championship with Draymond Green and Klay Thompson leading the way would anyone give a rip?
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Ballforlife12345



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:36 pm

If they're in grade 10, there still JV. Ik there are 2 players on the Woodstock varsity in grade 10.
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iknowmorethanyou



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:40 pm

Ballforlife12345 wrote:
If they're in grade 10, there still JV. Ik there are 2 players on the Woodstock varsity in grade 10.
Just because they are in grade doesn't doesn't mean they are JV....in fact, if you are good enough you never have to play JV...you can spend 4 years on the Varsity team playing against the best competition in the province. All the JV age limit does it restrict grade 11s and 12s from playing on it....not the other way around....Keegan Gray has played Varsity since grade 9, how'd that work out for him and Woodstock!!
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Ballforlife12345



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:43 pm

I definitely agree that playing varsity is better for your game, but if u want to JV, it's ur choice
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heatles



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:46 pm

iknowmorethanyou wrote:
Ballforlife12345 wrote:
If they're in grade 10, there still JV. Ik there are 2 players on the Woodstock varsity in grade 10.
Just because they are in grade doesn't doesn't mean they are JV....in fact, if you are good enough you never have to play JV...you can spend 4 years on the Varsity team playing against the best competition in the province.  All the JV age limit does it restrict grade 11s and 12s from playing on it....not the other way around....Keegan Gray has played Varsity since grade 9, how'd that work out for him and Woodstock!!



Well said.
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iknowmorethanyou



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:47 pm

Ballforlife12345 wrote:
I definitely agree that playing varsity is better for your game, but if u want to JV, it's ur choice

Not really....it's the coaches choice who is on which team...if i was a varsity coach and i tried to take a kid in grade 9 or 10 and he said he wouldn't play and that he wanted to play JV....I'd never take him as grade 11 or 12, no matter how good he is. This is varsity athletics...if you aren't playing basketball at that point to be on the varsity team, what are you playing for? I'd suggest trying hockey...or badminton??
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Common Sense



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:51 pm

iknowmorethanyou wrote:
Stripes11 wrote:
Why not win a Varsity championship and actually make yourself a lot better by playing against the best players in the province if its a possibility?

The Million Dollar Question!!  The Answer - The CN JV Coaches are convincing these kids that taking the easier way is the better way.  Why push yourself at varsity and possibly fail...when you could crush everyone by 50 points in JV....sad sad state of affairs at CNHS right now.

I couldn't agree more! Why would you not give these kids the opportunity to play against the best players in the province.  I guarantee that the CN JV team has two players that would make just about every varsity team in the province with possibly the exception of FHS....maybe.  So instead of playing against the best, they are full court pressing their way to 60 point wins vs. Upper Blackville JV. Bravo coach, bravo. and this is not the fault of the players....they are doing what they are led to believe is the right things....really?

This is all about about EGO, not kids.
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iknowmorethanyou



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:54 pm

Common Sense wrote:
iknowmorethanyou wrote:
Stripes11 wrote:
Why not win a Varsity championship and actually make yourself a lot better by playing against the best players in the province if its a possibility?

The Million Dollar Question!!  The Answer - The CN JV Coaches are convincing these kids that taking the easier way is the better way.  Why push yourself at varsity and possibly fail...when you could crush everyone by 50 points in JV....sad sad state of affairs at CNHS right now.

I couldn't agree more! Why would you not give these kids the opportunity to play against the best players in the province.  I guarantee that the CN JV team has two players that would just about every varsity team in the province with possibly the exception of FHS....maybe.  So instead of playing against the best, they are full court pressing their way to 60 point wins vs. Upper Blackville JV. Bravo coach, bravo.

This is all about about EGO, not kids.

Exactly! Use your JV program for what it is intended...developing kids that AREN'T READY to play Varsity!!
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Powerball



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PostSubject: easy fix   Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:57 pm

It's a simple fix. Get rid of JV. Let each school have one team for each gender. The rest play midget bantam juvenile etc..... This way a kid who wants to play for his school has one option.
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Powerball



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PostSubject: cnhs   Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:13 pm

Just to put an end to this debate. CNHS varsity boys have hung up one banner for varsity boys in the last 20 plus years. Something tells me their method is not the best when you compare to whs sshs tantramar etc....

Ps rumor has it the cnhs jv boys coach is retiring at year end. ( rumor has it they will not be very good next year)
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Ballforlife12345



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:43 pm

It is true that they won't be that good next year. Woodstock will clean up against them
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iknowmorethanyou



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:45 pm

CN issue is with its minor program. They simply are developing any skill at the mini and middle school levels.
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CoachBuckets



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:49 pm

Coach obviously doesn't like to just compete with teams. Doesn't want to teach and watch them grow from 0 to 100. He would rather take varsity ready players and play them against Hampton, PTA, and Hartland JV teams and blow them out by 60+. If he is leaving because they are going to suck next year, he shouldn't deserve to coach this year.
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