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 JV - Varsity debate

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Stripes11



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:28 pm

It's too bad that this became a roast of a certain coach and program as I am sure there are many kids on that team that work their tail off on a daily basis and deserve better. Although they probably can't see the real issue behind all of the glory from the blowout wins against lesser competition.

Perhaps, if nothing else, this will spark a debate about the changes that need to be made to our current system. I'm sure hoop life is the first thing checked every morning at NBIAA head office right?????
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Common Sense



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:15 am

Ballforlife12345 wrote:
It is true that they won't be that good next year. Woodstock will clean up against them

You are missing the point completely here Ballforlife12345...as a matter of fact, I don't see anyone touching CN in AA for the next two years...they will be very strong next year with all their best players back. That is not the point we are making here.
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Ballforlife12345



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:18 am

All there best players are in grade 10....
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Coach.Red



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:39 am

Common Sense wrote:
Ballforlife12345 wrote:
It is true that they won't be that good next year. Woodstock will clean up against them

You are missing the point completely here Ballforlife12345...as a matter of fact, I don't see anyone touching CN in AA for the next two years...they will be very strong next year with all their best players back.  That is not the point we are making here.


Why aren't they moving to AAA then?
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HuskiesForever



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:56 am

Coach.Red wrote:
Common Sense wrote:
Ballforlife12345 wrote:
It is true that they won't be that good next year. Woodstock will clean up against them

You are missing the point completely here Ballforlife12345...as a matter of fact, I don't see anyone touching CN in AA for the next two years...they will be very strong next year with all their best players back.  That is not the point we are making here.


Why aren't they moving to AAA then?


Why would any team move up when they can dominate at a lower level......seems to me some teams in AAA and AA wish they could move down because they are not competitive where they are.......
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celtic



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:06 am

There are 2 or 3 kids playing at CN that should be playing Varsity without a question. It would make their varsity the best AA team in the province without question! The JV team would still easily be the top 2 or 3 in AA and could likely still easily win another banner while making the whole CN program stronger
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Ballforlife12345



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:36 am

Disagree that the 2 best players on the JV team could make CNHS the best AA in the province.
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Common Sense



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:44 am

Ballforlife12345 wrote:
Disagree that the 2 best players on the JV team could make CNHS the best AA in the province.

They are close now....very close....with a full squad that can beat anyone in AA, and then you add a couple of strong grade 10s....

In AA, that's often all it takes...
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Ballforlife12345



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:47 am

Well Adrian Kinney is out for the season and he's in a way the backbone of there squad. I can't see them knocking off Woodstock or Tantramar. Maybe Fundy, considering how they've beat them twice
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celtic



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:06 am

Ballforlife12345 wrote:
Disagree that the 2 best players on the JV team could make CNHS the best AA in the province.

Seriously??...do u know the 2 we are talking about
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Common Sense



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:54 am

Ballforlife12345 wrote:
Well Adrian Kinney is out for the season and he's in a way the backbone of there squad. I can't see them knocking off Woodstock or Tantramar. Maybe Fundy, considering how they've beat them twice

We are getting off topic with this strand, but make no mistake about it, Fundy (only now because CN has some injuries) and Tantramar are the two best teams. Fundy has beaten Woodstock twice...Woodstock would have to beat one of those teams (probably in Fundy or Tantramar) to make it, and that is not going to happen anytime soon...

To get back on topic, if the CN varsity team had the players they should have, they would be a legit threat, and probably the favorite, with or without their injuries....and to add to that, the JV team WOULD STILL WIN provincials. That is the part of this that is the most ridiculous.

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celtic



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:00 am

Common Sense wrote:
Ballforlife12345 wrote:
Well Adrian Kinney is out for the season and he's in a way the backbone of there squad. I can't see them knocking off Woodstock or Tantramar. Maybe Fundy, considering how they've beat them twice

We are getting off topic with this strand, but make no mistake about it, Fundy (only now because CN has some injuries) and Tantramar are the two best teams.  Fundy has beaten Woodstock twice...Woodstock would have to beat one of those teams (probably in Fundy or Tantramar) to make it, and that is not going to happen anytime soon...

To get back on topic, if the CN varsity team had the players they should have, they would be a legit threat, and probably the favorite, with or without their injuries....and to add to that, the JV team WOULD STILL WIN provincials.  That is the part of this that is the most ridiculous.  


well said!
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Ballforlife12345



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:27 pm

Why don't u just say the two so everyone knows for sure
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iknowmorethanyou



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:14 pm

For the purpose of this is debate it doesn't matter who the two players are, the point is if you are varsity caliber you should be playing varsity,not JV.there are probably 3-4 kids on that JV team that could and should be playing up. This would also allow them to keep more young players in their pipeline with the hope of developing them. And just worry about playing AA instead of chasing meaningless AAA victories.
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BAM



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:58 pm

I don't think that is always the case it depends on the individual athlete and their situation. In a lot of cases it is probably better to be in the starting five on a JV Team and developing your confidence as opposed to being the 11th or 12th player on a varsity program with very limited playing time. That said the situation can vary depending on the athlete and what is best for his development and the development of the program.
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BAM



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:03 pm

That said keeping kids that should be playing Varsity in JV to stack your team for a JV crown is not right.
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Sou_by_Souwest



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PostSubject: Doing Battle   Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:31 pm

If a kid is mentally mature enough and is not going to sit at the end of the bench of the varsity squad, there is no doubt in my mind that they need to play on the varsity team. Going to practice 4 months of the year and banging against mentally tougher and more physical players will make you a better basketball player. There is a massive gap in the physicality and speed of the game between JV and varsity in New Brunswick.

You are not doing the player a favour in their development if you let them stay down and be a star in JV. Let them be a bench energy player in grade 10 on the varsity team and by the time they get to grade 12 they will have their chance to be a star on the big stage.


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brady12



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:55 pm

Back in the day you could have the best of both worlds, play on both jv and varsity teams, some games there was a conflict usually played jv. Was common to play jv game and then warmup dress with varsity, very special feel. Learned a lot practising as a member of varsity even though played infrequently in games. I was in grade 9. Must have been more flexibility both boys teams travelled together which was also learning op.
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HisAirness



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:31 am

So on the flip side of this debate you look at Rothesay High they were in for a down year at the varsity level graduating nine players last season. There is now five JV players on the varsity squad 2/3 of them starting every night and the rest playing good chunks of minutes. It is a bumpy year for that group but they are closing the gap on all the games they play. On top of that that the JV team there is still strong. I'm not sure who is right or wrong in this debate but I feel that those five kids that will play three or four years of Varsity ball can't help but be in a good spot come their grade 11 and 12 years.
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Powerball



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PostSubject: Jv strong????   Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:51 am

HisAirness wrote:
So on the flip side of this debate you look at Rothesay High they were in for a down year at the varsity level graduating nine players last season. There is now five JV players on the varsity squad 2/3 of them starting every night and  the rest playing good chunks of minutes. It is a bumpy year for that group but they are closing the gap on all the games they play. On top of that that the JV team there is still strong. I'm not sure who is right or wrong in this debate but I feel that those five kids that will play three or four years of Varsity ball can't help but be in a good spot come their grade 11 and 12 years.

Have you ever watched the jv team play? Would you really call them strong?? Wow
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HisAirness



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:09 am

Good point Powerball let me clarify that statement....they are competitive in AA JV I believe they will finish first in the south and have played competitive games with AA teams other than CN. Now part of that is do to the caliber of AA and A JV ball in this province. My point was more to the fact that there is five quality players that would let the JV team be very good and steam roll through JV . Aside from setting up a competitive AA JV boys final ( I'm not here to argue over the score or who is better ...let's say CN wins by a billion so this thread does not go off on a tangent). There is just not a lot of development opportunity players who want to stay back and compete for a JV title if they can get quality time on the Varsity squad. If that play is the 12th man than I can see the argument to leave that kid behind. Although personally I feel a kid who play limited min at the varsity level is still better off than playing bulk min in JV. I understand there is exception to this rule. Players meantal ability,coaching quality..ect
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Powerball



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PostSubject: Makes sense   Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:21 am

HisAirness wrote:
Good point Powerball let me clarify that statement....they are competitive in AA JV I believe they will finish first in the south and have played competitive games with AA teams other than CN. Now part of that is do to the caliber of AA and A JV ball in this province. My point was more to the fact that there is five quality players that would let the JV team be very good and steam roll through JV . Aside from setting up a competitive AA JV boys final ( I'm not here to argue over the score or who is better ...let's say CN wins by a billion so this thread does not go off on a tangent). There is just not a lot of development opportunity players who want to stay back and compete for a JV title if they can get quality time on the Varsity squad. If that play is the 12th man than I can see the argument to leave that kid behind. Although personally I feel a kid who play limited min at the varsity level is still better off than playing bulk min in JV. I understand there is exception to this rule. Players meantal ability,coaching quality..ect

Every situation is different. If they are in rotation they should play varsity. If they have a Gary young type coach at the jv level I can see why kids would choose to stay back.
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Stripes11



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:23 am

Every situation is different. If they are in rotation they should play varsity. If they have a Gary young type coach at the jv level I can see why kids would choose to stay back.[/quote]

Ahhhh! This must be why all of the Carleton North kids stay back...
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Powerball



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:44 am

Stripes11 wrote:
Every situation is different. If they are in rotation they should play varsity. If they have a Gary young type coach at the jv level I can see why kids would choose to stay back.

Ahhhh! This must be why all of the Carleton North kids stay back...[/quote]

Cnhs hAs kids on the jv team who would make the varsity team much stronger and would be in the rotation. Those two or three kids should be playing varsity and the school should be ashamed that they are not supporting the seniors and juniors who will possibly miss out on a banner because of it.

I think the cnhs jv girls have done the same thing holding players back at the expense of the varsity team.

Just my opinion.
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ForceHimLeft



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PostSubject: Re: JV - Varsity debate   Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:55 pm

One thought that is being extremely over looked is that the kids playing in grade 11 and 12 aren't able to play down. If you have enough varsity aged players to round out your roster, why dip into the lower age group? I know it's about development of the younger players and playing at the highest level possible would do them good but to do so, those grade 9 and 10 players with the abilit to play varsity will be taking away spots from the older kids who have no where else to play.

I know some of you may think the twelve best players should represent that schools varsity team, I partially agree with that, but also building continuity on a JV team with grade 9 and 10s should will be the grade 12 and 11's in two years time is not a horrible idea either.

I understand everyones sentiment that the best JV players should be playing varsity, but isn't the goal of High School sports to have as many athletes playing as possible? Coach Gray at CNHS will be patting himself on the back for the next two years for leaving those kids down in JV, who are practicing with the grade 9 and 10 kids getting them better every day. Collectively as a group, because those players decided to play JV this year, they are drastically raising the bar for expectations for their teammates in games and in practice.
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