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 Boys 3A Second Ranking

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12321



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PostSubject: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:11 pm

This needed a new thread.

[quote="hoopfan123"]A shot at the 3A Boys 2nd ranking;

1. Chestermere
2. Leduc
3. Sturgeon
4. Cochrane
5. Strathcona Christian
6. Holy Trinity Academy
7. St. Joseph
8. St. Peter the Apostle
9. Edmonton Christian
10. St. Albert Catholic

HM - Beaumont, WR Myers, Eastglen, Peace Wapiti, Wetaskewin[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:51 pm

Hoping the rankers don't make the same mistakes this time around. I still think this is lot like last year in that its a 2 team race. Swap Leduc for WC and fill in the rest of the pieces.

1. Chestermere 14-1 (3A: 7-0) 3 missing scores including loss not posted on exnet.
Notable wins: Cardston, Magrath, HTA, Bert Church, Notre Dame RD
Notable losses: none

2. Leduc 17-5 (3A: 7-0)
Notable wins: Paul Kane, Centennial, SPA, Wetaskiwin, WC, EC
Notable losses: EP Scarlett, St Francis CAL

3. Cochrane 9-2 (3A: 6-0)
Notable wins: Centennial, Bert Church, Salisbury
Notable losses: EP Scarlett

4. Strathcona Christian Academy 10-2 (3A: 2-0)
Notable wins: EC, Eastglen, Bert Church, Salisbury
Notable losses: WC, Bev Facey

5. Holy Trinity Academy 10-3 (3A: 3-1)
Notable wins: Foothills, Springbank, George McDougall
Notable losses: Chestermere, St Francis CAL

6: Sturgeon Composite 9-5 (3A: 2-0) Missing loss in home tournament to Sask team not posted on exnet.
Notable wins: McNally, ME Lazerte, Eastglen, St Albert
Notable losses: Paul Kane, Spruce Grove

7. Wetaskiwin 9-5 (3A: 8-2)
Notable wins: St Joesph, HJ Cody, WR Myers, George McDougall
Notable losses:  Notre Dame RD, Chestermere, Leduc

8: St Joesph (ED) 10-3 (3A: 3-1)
Notable wins: Lillian Osborne, AOR, Notre Dame RD, MC
Notable losses:  Spruce Grove, Wetaskiwin

9: SPA 6-8 (3A: 3-1)
Notable wins: Olds, St Albert, JP, EC
Notable losses:  Leduc, Notre Dame RD, Paul Kane

10: Edmonton Christian 5-11 (3A:1-3) 2 bad losses not posted on exnet*
Notable wins: St Albert, Lloyd, Percy Page
Notable losses:  McNally, JP, SCA, Leduc, ME Lazerte*, Wagner*, SPA

HM Eastglen
HM Beaumont
HM Ponoka
HM Springbank
HM WR Myers

I'll change it if any missing previously unknown scores come in.


Last edited by 12321 on Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:39 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:55 pm

Too much emphasis is placed on rankings. its a guess Until the 20 teams you have listed play each other and I am sure St Albert would have scores in. They have not played many games.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:29 pm

I can assure you St Albert is missing scores. Right on this forum HTAbball had them lose a game that isn't on exnet. And unless they're only playing 2 game Oregon draw tournaments they have other scores missing too.

Not many comments on this thread but lots of views. No other predictions?
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Thu Jan 15, 2015 5:25 pm

1. Chestermere
2. Leduc
3. SC
4. Cochrane
5. HTA
6.-10. and HM: doesn't matter. They don't have a chance at winning. Even 3-5 would be a stretch to beat Chestermere and Leduc.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Thu Jan 15, 2015 8:27 pm

1 Leduc
2 Chestermere
3 Cochrane
4 Holy Trinity
5 Strathcona Christian
6 Wetaskiwin
7 Sturgeon
8 St Peter the Apostle
9 Edmonton Christian
10 St Albert

HM Springbank
HM Olds
HM Eastglen
HM Beaumont
HM St Joesph
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:28 pm

456654 - I would also say it looks like a 2 team race right now. I'm not sure that will be a season long trend like last year with WC and Chestermere however. I do think Cochrane and Strathcona Christian Academy are the only 2 other teams that will really compete with Leduc and Chestermere for a 3A title. I got to see SCA at Airdrie against WC and while I haven't seen Cochrane I've talked to people who have. I think both have the potential to move into the top 2 but they will have to prove that by beating the 2 teams ahead of them. Chestermere and Cochrane will play in their league but that might be the only time there is a match up of any of those 4 until zones and provincials. It would be interesting to get all 4 of those teams in a round robin and see how it plays out. That may be the semi finals at provincials.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:52 pm

Why do people think Holy Trinity would drop? They only lost to Chestermere in the finals of their home tournament who was ranked higher. There is no reason they should be below Strathcona Christian and Cochrane.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:41 am

I don't think too many are naive enough to think that HTA will drop at all. That's what should happen. That's not what will happen. Even though 4A is harder to predict, at least the rankers are generally trying to accurately rank without self interest. It helps that the majority of rankers in 4A don't have teams in contention. If you've followed 4A ranking in the south in the last 10 years you know what I've talking about. This year's 3A is fraught with self serving rankers who are trying to up their own placement.

2 of 3 rankers have now played Chestermere. Both got tagged early and were out of it in the first half in blow outs. Nothing has changed for Leduc. If the rankers stick to their guns and base the ranking on the first failed attempt they should stay at #1. They haven't lost to a 3A team and have only lost to top 4A teams. But Chestermere will be #1 this ranking because 2 rankers have played them and will now rank them where they should have been at first based on winning. The difference is that now they will rank them #1 because of how badly they beat their own teams. HTA will say Chestermere is the clearly #1 and therefore we stay at #3 because Chestermere is in a league of their own. Wetaskiwin will follow suit although I think they should be ranked higher than they were last time regardless. SCA and Cochrane appear almost identical for ranking purposes and are basically interchangeable but both will stay behind HTA even though the only comparison is HTA's only really significant win - a down to wire victory over Foothills who SCA beat easily in a game that was over early, yet SCA will be behind HTA in the rankings. Wetaskiwin, who beat WR Myers and George McDougall in really close games, will jump up the ranking because they played Chestermere and Leduc similar to HTA. That is to say not very well. WR Myers may stay on as an HM. GM is not even top 20. Easy to jump on board with that if you're Wetaskiwin. The only push back will be St Albert who are trying to rank teams they've lost to like Sturgeon or SPA higher so they can slip into the top 10 or at least HM. To be fair to St Albert they have played some teams like GM and LSL far better than Wetaskiwin so why should Wetaskiwin be top 6 or 7 and St Alberta left off completely. At least last year there was a ranker who wasn't self serving. My prediction for this year is that 3A ranking will be less than accurate. Take it all with a heavy serving of salt.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:14 am

456654- I agree with you on your rankings.

12321- You seem to be very knowledgeable about 3a/4a boys basketball. Always great to read your opinions/reasonings.

From what i hear and read on here Chestermere has a very solid team. And also Leduc. Havent had a chance to see either team yet this year. Leduc i assume has more depth than anyone in 3a considering usually a 4a school in years past. Can anyone tell me more about Leduc and Chestermere?
12321? What are your thoughts on these two teams from a basketball perspective not on rankings side? If you have seen them play of course.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:05 pm

Perhaps this isn't related to this thread, but 12321 why is wc no longer able to declare 3A? Why did the south league change that policy? It seems that may out wc in a tough spot as the other leagues they could join are not as competitive, but is playing 4A ball really where wc wants to be year in year out?
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:06 pm

I haven't seen Leduc play, but I have seen Chestermere. They actually have a lot of depth from a 3A school; playing 10-11 guys on any given night. They have arguably the best big I've seen in the province and he's and only in grade 11. Two big perimeter scorers and seem to be really well coached. I have not seen Leduc play as I live in Calgary, but maybe 12321 has seen them.

I think 3A is more difficult to rank than 4A. There seems to be too much emphasis for games played against 4A opponents. Perfect example is Leduc's win over PK in the last ranking period. PK got ranked #7 and so Leduc was given more credit for that victory than Chestermere's win over McGrath and Cardston, who were not in the top 10. Following that llogic this ranking period McGrath should be ranked around 7 and Cardston has an outside shot at cracking the top 10 with PK likely dropping out of the top 10 and probably not a HM team. Chestermere should be #1 then right? I don't think this is right!

4A opponents for 3A teams need to be common between them to be comparable. You can't go off of the 4A rankings, because who is to say if they are correct. However if Chestermere and Leduc don't have any common 4A opponents and are both EASILY undeafted in 3A you can see where this gets complicated.

Chestermere was last year's champion, they haven't lost in close to a calendar year, I've seen their depth and size and skill. I would say they are the number 1 team in 3A.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:22 pm

WC has to play 4A if they want to play in the southern league. They should be playing 3A. I wish they were playing 3A. There isn't a better option.

Of the top 10 3A teams, I've seen Leduc, Chestermere, SCA and HTA play. I also talk a lot of basketball. 30+ years coaching does that to you as sccoach90, 456654 can attest to.

HTA can compete with SCA but they won't beat them unless everything goes perfectly. Leduc and Chestermere can be lose to SCA but I don't think they'll ever lose to HTA. From what I hear from others, HTA is probably on par with Sturgeon, Wetaskiwin, St Joes, EC. It also sounds like SPA will eventually move up and match up well with Cochrane and SCA so I'd say there are 3 tiers in the top 10, the widest gap being between the top 2 and the next 3.

Leduc has 3 guys who have good size with their most talented big, an intriguing prospect in Devon Wittow, primarily playing the perimeter. He can also get to the rim and finish. They are deep at the guard spot and have some spot up shooters. They're quick and force a lot of turnovers which starts an excellent transition game.

Chestermere is bigger. I've already mentioned their centre before on this blog. Jeff Rodehutskors is seen by many college coaches as having CIS and perhaps NCAA potential considering he is only in grade 11. A little raw offensively, he relies on position for offensive scoring in the post, but is a great dump pass finisher and O rebounder. He can run with anyone and will punish teams on the break or as a trailer. Of their two larger perimeter players, I would only consider Yellowhorn as an actual scorer from the outside. The other is more of a get into the paint off the dribble sort of player who has a nice finish. With some time and space he is capable of knocking down the jumper.

If its a half court game, I'd give the edge to Chestermere. If it turns into a track meet, I'd go with Leduc. It will probably depend on which team can control the pace.

Leduc only played 1 year of 4A - last year. They have been a 3A team for a long time. Its also interesting to note that Chestermere played in the states over Christmas so they are not undefeated in a calendar year as has been suggested by 456654 who knows better. Another interesting fact is that Leduc has already played 22 games. 22 games at the semester break is an impressive schedule but a really gutsy move. With their league games and league playoffs remaining, they'll top out 36 without playing a single tournament the rest of the way until zones. We'll see how much that hurts them down the stretch when other teams are ramping up their schedules in preparation for playoffs.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:31 pm

Holy Trinity has had more significant wins than just Foothills. They beat Forest Lawn who is a Division 1 team in Calgary.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:42 pm

Forest Lawn won't be Division 1 in Calgary. If they make playoffs, they'll be out early, probably 2 games straight so bottom half of Division 2.

Forest Lawn does provide a second level comparison between HTA and other 3A teams they haven't played.

HTA 81 Forest Lawn 76
Forest Lawn 57 Bow Valley 40
Bow Valley 23 Leduc 106
Bow Valley 34 Cochrane 108

Second level comparisons can be deceiving but it is something to look at.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:06 pm

I'll say this about Forest Lawn. They had one extremely talented player (scored 49 on HTA) and beyond that they were pretty weak. They are good enough to be a division 1 team as they competed well against WA but they are also inconsistent due to relying on solely one guy. I will be interested to see how teams like Springbank are ranked. They have been a little inconsistent this season. They played a great first half against SACHS but almost gave it away after being up by 30 at one point. They also played well vs Cochrane as they only lost by 8.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:26 pm

Springbank is definitely moving up and should be an HM this ranking period. They have had close losses (2 pts on Onoway) and close wins (3 pts on George McDougall, 1 pt St Albert) and have played some of the top 10 calibre teams reasonably close like Cochrane and Notre Dame High who beat SPA. I think they could move up into the top 10 but I also think they think that considering they just started posting their own scores.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:52 pm

What is up between Winston Churchill and Holy Trinity? Was there some sort of rivalry in the past?
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:16 am

As far as I know there is no rivalry between those two schools. HTA and Foothills maybe. There are many in Lethbridge. That comes from having a good league where there is fan support and games mean something.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:23 am

For Three - there is no rivalry against WC. There have been some close games in past years but nothing malicious. HTA's biggest rival is easily Foothills Comp. It is a huge rivalry which the stands are always full and tempers sometimes flare.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:25 am

Also when Highwood has a decent team they are also a rival team.
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:53 pm

3A Second Ranking:
1. Chestermere
2. Leduc
3. HTA
4. SCA
5. Cochrane
6. SPA
7. Wetaskiwin
8. St. Joes
9. Sturgeon
10. EC

HM Barrhead
HM Eastglen
HM Ponoka
HM Springbank
HM WR Myers
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PostSubject: Re: Boys 3A Second Ranking   Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:40 pm

I'm not that surprised and I do think this fixes the #1 spot but there are still a few questions surrounding how this was come up with. If I'm Leduc I'm questioning why I was #1 the first ranking period and, based on a similar set of results, #2 this ranking. If I'm SCA, I'm wondering how I'm behind HTA considering I have a better record and the only competition connection is Foothills which clearly should place SCA higher. If I'm Sturgeon I have to wonder what I did wrong to drop below Wetaskiwin and St Joes and SPA other than lose to PK and if I'm SPA I'm saying don't change anything.
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