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 Players of the year?

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CoachBuckets



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PostSubject: Players of the year?    Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:37 am

Thoughts?
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coachnb6



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:51 am

CoachBuckets wrote:
Thoughts?

Southwest Boys:
AAA - Stanley Mayambo
AA- Keegan Gray
A- Zach Foster
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Common Sense



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:27 pm

coachnb6 wrote:
CoachBuckets wrote:
Thoughts?

Southwest Boys:
AAA - Stanley Mayambo
AA- Keegan Gray
A- Zach Foster

Hard to argue any of those.
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OldBull55



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:03 pm

Any thoughts around coach of the year? Lot of really nice coaching jobs done over the winter, should be time to acknowledge them!
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CoachBuckets



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:26 pm

This year for me one guy sticks out in AA and has his team playing very well, who is Doak coach of Fundy High. He has his boys playing well at the right time of the year with the 44 point win over cnhs and the tough win over whs. Also Jones from whs is always at the top with the greatest coaches in NB. Again CNHS has a great young coach leading them to two straight Harbor Station appearances in the last two years I believe. Lots in triple AAA: Kinger, Hickey, Paul Vaugh, also more that I am missing.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:02 am

SW AAA - Mayambo (boys), Too Much vote splitting on best teams/players in girls to guess (?)
AA - Gray/Wilkins (boys), Carr/Cooke (girls)
A - Foster (HHS), Larmer (HHS) - SHould probably be a JCS kid but there will be vote splitting there too.

In terms of Coaches. . field gets limited by the fact that they don't normally give repeat winners, so once you win it once you don't normally win it again. How many people lose their minds if we recommend the VB coaches from RNS Wink
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Birdman33



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:36 am

CoachBuckets wrote:
This year for me one guy sticks out in AA and has his team playing very well, who is Doak coach of Fundy High. He has his boys playing well at the right time of the year with the 44 point win over cnhs and the tough win over whs. Also Jones from whs is always at the top with the greatest coaches in NB. Again CNHS has a great young coach leading them to two straight Harbor Station appearances in the last two years I believe. Lots in triple AAA: Kinger, Hickey, Paul Vaugh, also more that I am missing.

Seems to be lots of good coaches in the Carleton North/Woodstock area. From Jones, to the young coaches who do the Western Valley Attack thing, to Coach Gray and his assistant coach Horseman at Carleton North and the very successful JV coaches at CN who just keep on winning.
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OldBull55



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:12 am

Discussion on coaching must include Jones from WHS and Hickey from LHHS. Hickey has a top tier resume including leading BNB Summer elite teams and perennial contenders at LHHS. All Jones does is win, year after year!
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Sou_by_Souwest



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:34 am

We need to create a category of best recruiter of the year for boy's coach at RNS.

Triple AAA is my 'hood.

Boys - Mayambo
Girls - Wow this is tough!! If Woodstock was AAA I would give it to Carr. I think the next three games of the year are going to determine player of the year. Arguments could be made for Eva from Fredericton, Newman out of Riverview, Baird or Baxendale out of Sussex. KV ,MacNaughton, SJHS and MVHS tend to get it done as a collective.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:57 pm

In fairness to transperency, we can continue to create a list of quality coaches and discuss coaches and players who do a great job but . . .

FYI - All-star, Player of Year, Coach, Sportsmanship Awards to Teams. Are selected and determined by coaches working through the processes laid out by the Basketball Coaches Association.

A couple of notes on these processes for the sake of the discussion or personal interests.

- All-star voting and vote tabulating is done by level A, AA, AAA, conference (NE/SW) and gender. ie. the SW A girls conference heads/leads collect votes from all the coaches in their conference and tabulate the results. Same for each conference at each level for each gender. The top 5 vote point getters based on these votes become allstars, the top point getter recieves POY recognition. These votes are collected in the week following regionals. So results in Sectional and HS will not impact POY or allstars.

- Coach of the year and team sportsmanship nominees are collected in a similar way with coaches sending suggestions to the Coaches Association for basketball and then a committee making decisions. One of the criteria is attempting to not awarding it to a coach who has won it in the past.

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Ballforlife12345



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:49 pm

Where did the voting take place?
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:14 pm

[quote="Ballforlife12345"]Where did the voting take place?[/quote


Coaches emailed submissions from their teams.
Coaches were then sent ballots with all players names.
Coaches submitted those ballots physically/electronically to the conference lead.
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coachnb6



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:16 pm

CoachDJR wrote:
Ballforlife12345 wrote:
Where did the voting take place?[/quote


Coaches emailed submissions from their teams.
Coaches were then sent ballots with all players names.
Coaches submitted those ballots physically/electronically to the conference lead.

Any idea when All-stars will be announced?
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Coach34



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:29 pm

A Foster Hartland but Milner may surprise. Girls can be one of Toner/Hansen JCS or Larmer/Corey-Harvey
AA Both Woodstock Grey and Carr
AAA Both FHS Mayambo and Tumwine Girls
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poolie



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:45 pm

For allstar voting Coaches are also not allowed to vote for their own players. Only from other teams.
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Ballislife9



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:15 am

A boys - Foster HCS
A girls - Toner JCS or Larmer HHS
Don't know much about AA and AAA
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brady12



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:11 pm

Here is an example of why this process is skewed. If you go to a AAA school in StJ area you play in a "league" playing home/away games plus invitational tournaments and any exhibion games arranged by coaches. Minimally coaches in Sj area will see league players at least twice some several times. If you go to AAA school in Fred/Oromocto you will play home/away with 3 schools plus invitational tournaments and exhibion games. Reality is that more competitive schools will not play less competitive ones, we all know who is in each category, in either tournaments or exhibition games. Furthermore competitive teams who do play vs less competitive teams will generally not play their best throughout the game. Factor in injury or illness. Point is the very best in the above scenario won't even be seen by some voting coaches who will vote for players they have seen several times. Add into the mix that certain teams are invited to certain tournaments, others not invited and one can see that it is only by luck that players in south-west can truly be evaluated. Other regions would have similar nuances I am certain, so it should not be a surprise when names are missing. All as reliable as drawing names from a hat. I see now the game is being moved from Sussex wonder why and how does it get assigned. My closing comment is that the coaching awards Peg Macaleenan and Dave McPherson were presented in the year I witnessed without a single word recognizing the individuals for whom the awards are named, Bet there was only a handful of us oldies who knew both individuals and their accomplishments in the development of hs basketball in NB. Maybe folks at Leo can make this happen this year.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:23 pm

Voting made Kobe an allstar starter this year.

Voting lets historical statistical leaders stay out of the baseball hall of fame.

Voting makes Stephen Harper my PM in a majority government.

Voting lets Mountain Dew screw up flavours and products

Voting had me end up "Most Dependable" in my high school year book.

Any system with voting clearly has a flawed human element . . .so does any system with humans.
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BeeBall4Lifee



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:53 pm

CoachDJR wrote:
Voting made Kobe an allstar starter this year.

Voting lets historical statistical leaders stay out of the baseball hall of fame.

Voting makes Stephen Harper my PM in a majority government.

Voting lets Mountain Dew screw up flavours and products

Voting had me end up "Most Dependable" in my high school year book.

Any system with voting clearly has a flawed human element . . .so does any system with humans.

LOL well said!!
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Ballfan14



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:53 pm

Anybody have the results?
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FundyBaller



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:47 pm

Boys
SouthWest
AAA STANLEY MAYOMBO
AA Keegan Gray
A Zachary Foster
Northeast
AAA Zach Middleton
AA Jeshua Becker
A Patrick Carroll (not sure)
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Eyeballer



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:16 am

I agree most systems are flawed, maybe setting some criteria would help some coaches who don't get a chance to see all the players equally. Often time only top scorers get noticed or awarded, always been the case especially for smaller schools who have to set up their offence around one player, tuffer for schools with several good players to get noticed unless they put up big points and even then they often go unnoticed. Other than maybe a couple names mentioned, they don't score unless they are getting the ball from the players that don't get the credit they deserve. From what I've seen the last couple years there aren't many good posts on the women's side of things and a tonne of good guards. Any team running a post game will always appear to have dominate players in the post position. Guards almost always go unnoticed, interesting to see how many guards vs posts have won Player of the Year. Don't get me wrong, there have been some stellar posts but they don't do it alone.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:17 am

Eyeballer wrote:
I agree most systems are flawed, maybe setting some criteria would help some coaches who don't get a chance to see all the players equally. Often time only top scorers get noticed or awarded, always been the case especially for smaller schools who have to set up their offence around one player, tuffer for schools with several good players to get noticed unless they put up big points and even then they often go unnoticed. Other than maybe a couple names mentioned, they don't score unless they are getting the ball from the players that don't get the credit they deserve. From what I've seen the last couple years there aren't many good posts on the women's side of things and a tonne of good guards. Any team running a post game will always appear to have dominate players in the post position. Guards almost always go unnoticed, interesting to see how many guards vs posts have won Player of the Year. Don't get me wrong, there have been some stellar posts but they don't do it alone.

I wouldn't say that posts dominate the womens game, mostly because NB has almost I would even argue no high level posts. Almost everyone on the women's side if they are going to continue with their career after high school size and build wise are going to be perimeter players wings, guards maybe stretch 4's. At the CIS, National level and even with most high end small college program outside the ACAA bigs are big. 6'3-6'4 plus which we don't have in NB. Alot of CIS womens' teams have guards that are 6 foot +. Now teams that do a good job of getting larger then other NB girls the ball inside have success, but that is because height and strength in the girls game is so dramatic a difference vs boys. Guys can be 3-4 inches shorter but because of hops or strength can defend or finish. Lack of back and shoulder strength in girls combined with inability to jump in any significant way often mean that just being taller gives you a better shot at finishing, rebounding or defending shots. Those players end up dominating games because of the advantage their length gives them because of the lack of dynamic athleticism to counter it that you find in guys games.

I don't think guards are going unnoticed but they aren't controlling the game. They are also easier to find defenders to contain them in women's games. ie. If you look at the big run that put Woodstock girls in the lead during the 2nd quarter they had 1 guard on the floor with 4 5'10-5'11 players. The quality of the first shot was not as significant as their ability to contest layups taken by JMH and offensively rebound their own misses to finish. In the BMHS game Bulman can finish through contact because of her strength where as contact caused a lot of rushed or off balance misses by Sussex on similar plays.

Post question is difficult in NB. While every kid should have the ability to post up in their pocket, for the most part if you train a player to be a traditional post you limit their long term upside as most will not have the size/athleticism to play that position or skill set at the next level. Always noteable exceptions but as a general rule kids who play in NB after high school and have success are not going to be interior players.
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Eyeballer



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:48 am

My point was that there aren't many posts of any size in NB for the girls side of things and that is why they tend to or at least they should dominate the smaller posts around the province. a lot of mismatches at the post position in NB. I agree that some guards aren't controlling the game but they are controlling the pace of the game and if they are good shooters can open up lanes to go inside at the high school level, at least here in NB.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Players of the year?    Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:14 am

Eyeballer wrote:
My point was that there aren't many posts of any size in NB for the girls side of things and that is why they tend to or at least they should dominate the smaller posts around the province. a lot of mismatches at the post position in NB. I agree that some guards aren't controlling the game but they are controlling the pace of the game and if they are good shooters can open up lanes to go inside at the high school level, at least here in NB.

I would agree but that may be the issue. That everyone (or a lot) of teams have guards that can shoot/handle. So players like that who don't stand out as dominant may get considered as a dime a dozen. Where as the players who can create and dominate an interior mismatch are rarer or at least more obvious. They are also the infrequent commodity that most university coaches look at as translating to the next level. I'm not sure how you could distinguish between the glut of 5'3- 5'5 guard who can knock down open shots, and not turn the ball over on one team vs another. Except that if one has others around them who can play they clearly look like they are having more impact on the game. Or if that guard is dynamic on defense or transition or finishing at the rim in ways that others can't.

On a quasi related note: There is also a trend in women's basketball at the highest levels in this country that I'm not entirely comfortable with where for defensive purposes players that do not meet a body type or height are all but automatically dismissed from consideration for certain teams/levels/programs.
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