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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: 1324134134   Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:22 am

New BC rankings - Ranking # 4 - Dec. 23, 2015

http://sportvictoria.com

http://sportvictoria.com/basketball/aaaboys/rankings.htm


Last edited by Sportvictoria on Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jonk



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:15 pm

I think Howard is absolutely fantastic but the rankings are bogus. Yale lost to Mowhat? and are ranked 2 while Churchill has only lost to 1 4A team ranked #1 and is ranked 6. For now it doesn't matter but in the playoffs it may. Kelowna has a fantastic team but if any team pushes the ball and lights them up in transition they're done. These guys are great in the half court but their transition defense is weak. Teams don't like to push the ball for some bizarre reason. Kelowna has 2 of the biggest guys in the province and very little athleticism. Sunny AOK will likely chime in but if a team has the trust to push the ball Kelowna will fall. They're a great group but definitely slow in transition D.
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:11 pm

Jonk wrote:
I think Howard is absolutely fantastic but the rankings are bogus.  Yale lost to Mowhat? and are ranked 2 while Churchill has only lost to 1 4A team ranked #1 and is ranked 6.  For now it doesn't matter but in the playoffs it may.  Kelowna has a fantastic team but if any team pushes the ball and lights them up in transition they're done.  These guys are great in the half court but their transition defense is weak.  Teams don't like to push the ball for some bizarre reason.  Kelowna has 2 of the biggest guys in the province and very little athleticism.  Sunny AOK will likely chime in but if a team has the trust to push the ball Kelowna will fall.  They're a great group  but definitely slow in transition D.  

Jonk,

4A and 3A rankings clearly said REPEATED.  THEY WERE NOT NEW RANKINGS.  Howard decided that there was not enough in to warrant a ranking so all results from after Dec 16 on will be folded into the Jan 6 ranking.

I was thinking the same way for 2A but decided to do them, but what that means is there most likely will be very little change for Jan 6.

Only 1A and 2A were new rankings.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria


Last edited by Sportvictoria on Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jonk



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:18 pm

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Jonk



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:35 pm

Churchill beat yale & mowhat. To me the rankings are bizarre. Nevertheless Happy Holidays!
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:15 pm

Jonk wrote:
Churchill beat yale & mowhat.  To me the rankings are bizarre.   Nevertheless Happy Holidays!

... and Churchhill lost to... look at the whole picture before you start throwing insults. It's not as easy as you may think it is.
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Pistol 7 Pete



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PostSubject:    Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:40 pm

Sportvictoria wrote:
Jonk wrote:
Churchill beat yale & mowhat.  To me the rankings are bizarre.   Nevertheless Happy Holidays!

... and Churchhill lost to... look at the whole picture before you start throwing insults.  It's not as easy as you may think it is.


I agree with Lyle, doing rankings is very difficult since many conjectures and assumptions are made early in the season and prominent teams have not played each other or have reached their pinnacle in performance yet. Therefore we should appreciate the work of the individuals whom make the rankings and realize that rankings do not (or should not) dictate the teams' performances - teams should focus on what they can control which is their work ethic and attitude.
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Jonk



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:57 pm

Not meaning to insult any team. Yale & Mowhat are both great teams. Just stating the fact that Churchill beat these teams. They lost to Kelowna by 20+ and 3A Southridge who is a strong team. They haven't lost to any other 4A team but the forum is meant for debate isn't it? Rankings in most sports take into account head to head competition. It's not an easy task and I think generally Howard does a great job. I guess on March 12th rankings don't matter. When was the last time a #1 ranked team at the beginning of the year won the provincials?
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Pistol 7 Pete



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:08 pm

Jonk wrote:
Not meaning to insult any team.  Yale & Mowhat are both great teams.  Just stating the fact that Churchill beat these teams.  They lost to Kelowna by 20+ and 3A Southridge who is a strong team.  They haven't lost to any other 4A team but the forum is meant for debate isn't it?  Rankings in most sports take into account head to head competition.  It's not an easy task and I think generally Howard does a great job. I guess on March 12th rankings don't matter.  When was the last time a #1 ranked team at the beginning of the year won the provincials?


Exactly! For example last year SMUS was ranked last year #1 and won 2A but the other #1 ranked teams did not win (SWC, STM and WPGA) so does it really matter?

Rankings are a good snapshot and the best estimate of a team's performance. We also need to consider that collecting data and info about teams at BCHSB level is difficult (everyone does not do in-depth stats and if so not everyone shares it).

I understand that SWC beat WJ and Yale but that is also in the past now - what if SWC faced WJ or Yale today? January? March 12? Should rankings also consider that or should it only consider the present or the past? Difficult decisions indeed but in my opinion control only what we can control.
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Pistol 7 Pete



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Thu Dec 24, 2015 7:11 pm

Pistol 7 Pete wrote:
Jonk wrote:
Not meaning to insult any team.  Yale & Mowhat are both great teams.  Just stating the fact that Churchill beat these teams.  They lost to Kelowna by 20+ and 3A Southridge who is a strong team.  They haven't lost to any other 4A team but the forum is meant for debate isn't it?  Rankings in most sports take into account head to head competition.  It's not an easy task and I think generally Howard does a great job. I guess on March 12th rankings don't matter.  When was the last time a #1 ranked team at the beginning of the year won the provincials?


Exactly! For example last year SMUS was ranked last year #1 and won 2A but the other #1 ranked teams did not win (SWC, STM and WPGA) so does it really matter?

Rankings are a good snapshot and the best estimate of a team's performance. We also need to consider that collecting data and info about teams at BCHSB level is difficult (everyone does not do in-depth stats and if so not everyone shares it).

I understand that SWC beat WJ and Yale but that is also in the past now - what if SWC faced WJ or Yale today? January? March 12? Should rankings also consider that or should it only consider the present or the past? Difficult decisions indeed but in my opinion control only what we can control.  

Also when I mean #1 ranked I meant by in the beginning of the year - here is the link: http://www.sportvictoria.com/basketball/2014-15/Rankings/previous.htm (Nov.23/14 poll - very early pre-season).

Even then the #1 ranked teams (Oak Bay, Tupper and St.Pat's) going into the tournament did not not win (Mar.3/15 poll)
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sunnyok



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:28 am

Jonk,
KSS has played over 9 games vs BC teams with a win margin well over 20 with their last win vs #2 Churchill over 30 before putting in bench to finish game. How on earth can you comment on their overall game.
Have you acually watched their games. To say they lack in transition is absurd. And lack athletisim is funny.  Not many teams have the overall athleticism that this team can put on the court at any given time.  
You need to watch the games a little closer my friend.
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Jonk



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:44 pm

I appreciate your dedication. Kelowna is a great team and they've earned their #1 ranking. Grant Shepard looks like a D1 prospect and is has established himself as an elite score along with Harry Liu and Hunter Hughes. I watched Churchill score 93 points vs. Kelowna without scoring a lot in transition. Harry Liu & Karn Virk had great games accounting for about 3/4 of the teams points. Kits also scored 93 against Kelowna and if they push they ball I think Oak Bay and possibly Grove could also score 90-100+ points. Kelowna has about 4 great perimeter players that are consistent 3 pointment shooters. My opinion is that they can't be beaten in the half court but will be if a team successfully presses and then pushes the ball in transition. They're a deep team so it won't be easy but that's the story of the season. If/when Kelowna will be beaten or have an undefeated season within BC competition & win the provincials. In June I watched a Drive summer team beat an Okanagan team mostly made up of Kelowna players with maybe all of their current starters. Drive won by about 10-15 points and they scored a lot of easy points. I respect the dedication of the Kelowna team and think they have a bunch of guys that will have good college career. I do believe that their defense can be lacking, that they can be hampered by foul trouble, and that with a strong game plan are beatable. That's my opinion I'm a fan/parent but not an expert. Merry Christmas
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FVRox



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:29 pm

Who plays good transition defence - look at the top teams & scoring.

KSS just has more skilled, mature & better players. And they have Grant Shepard. And Parker Simson. Can they guard the ball yes, can they rebound - yes. But in the end, they outscore everyone. Who has come close to stopping them - a US team with multiple D1 players...? The 35 point beat down vs back to back Alberta provincial champion & 2015 AB#1 Harry Ainlay sent shockwaves across Western Canada. I would say Canada, but Ontario doesn't acknowledge there is quality basketball outside of Ontario.

Of the Top 10, only Terry Fox plays some defence, but this year (without Gabe Laza), they are offensively challenged. Walnut Grove was thought to have some pieces (Gr 11's - Ty Rowell, Jake Cowley, Andrew Goertzen) that might challenge until they were lit up by Oak Bay & their gaggle of 3 point shooters. Oak Bay has some interesting players (Emerald & Gary Taylor Classic MVP Madhu McConnell, Jaden Touchie, Myka Tang Blumenshein) but they struggle on the boards, rely too much on the 3-ball & they have no answer for KSS bigs. Think Grove will be better than OB in the long run.

Other teams have some of the best scorers in BC (Yale - Riley Braich; Tamanawis - Miguel Tomley), but the supporting cast just doesn't match-up with KSS size & skill. Kits & Holy Cross have some skill, but are wildly inconsistent.

Still think SWC offers the best hope in BC to challenge KSS. Harry Lui & Karn Virk have been outstanding - if Lambert Pajayon can get back to where he was end of last season as one of top 2-3 PG's in BC, they will be dangerous.

Most of the top teams except SWC are at the Legal Beagle (Jan 7-9), so will see if anyone can come close to KSS - transition defence or not:)


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VicFan



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PostSubject: Re: 1324134134   Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:18 pm

Couple of interesting games in the next week might be of interest to those in Victoria.

Monday Dec 28 (today): Terry Fox vs Oak Bay (at Oak Bay 7:30)
Tuesday, Dec 29: Terry Fox vs Cowichan Secondary (not sure time)

Sunday, Jan 3: Winston Churchill (Lethbridge) vs SMUS (at UVic CARSA Gym) - 5:00
Sunday, Jan 3: Harry Ainlay vs Oak Bay (at UVic - CARSA Gym) - 6:45

I think those are the 1st 2 high school games to be played at the new spectacular CARSA facility at University of Victoria. You can also check out maybe the best Gr 12 player in Western Canada, Harry Ainlay's Aher Uguak, 6'7" small forward. Uguak signed a letter of intent with D1 University of New Mexico Lobos, & played for U17 Drive Elite this past summer.
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