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 Top 10 2010-11

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driver59



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:55 pm

so they can get players from anywhere, they dont have to be in there area they just have to have the money? right?
or are they held to the same restrictions as any public schoolas far as recruitment?
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39forever



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:59 pm

driver59 wrote:
so they can get players from anywhere, they dont have to be in there area they just have to have the money? right?
or are they held to the same restrictions as any public schoolas far as recruitment?


The same questions could be asked of Rothesay Netherwood. "Subsidising" kids to come to your school for whatever reason doesn't seem quite right when it comes to interscholasic activities.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:13 pm

39forever wrote:
driver59 wrote:
so they can get players from anywhere, they dont have to be in there area they just have to have the money? right?
or are they held to the same restrictions as any public schoolas far as recruitment?


The same questions could be asked of Rothesay Netherwood. "Subsidising" kids to come to your school for whatever reason doesn't seem quite right when it comes to interscholasic activities.

I don't know for sure but I would assume that both schools would not be under the same rules for recruitment since the nature of their schools is to recruit students.

Devon Park does not offer residences/accomodations like RNS so someone would have to have somewhere to live locally that they worked out on their own.
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driver59



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:24 pm

good point coach thank you
so would it be fair to say ontop of there coach and the oppertunities that the city presents ,recruitment might also play a prt in there success?
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EastSide



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:27 pm

No, every year it varies, A few years ago DP wasn't a top ranked school...In a couple years they might have a few bad seasons like every team has their ups and downs. Look at Petty, they used to be a top team..Now they have been mediocre for a long time.
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39forever



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:28 pm

CoachDJR wrote:
39forever wrote:
driver59 wrote:
so they can get players from anywhere, they dont have to be in there area they just have to have the money? right?
or are they held to the same restrictions as any public schoolas far as recruitment?


The same questions could be asked of Rothesay Netherwood. "Subsidising" kids to come to your school for whatever reason doesn't seem quite right when it comes to interscholasic activities.

I don't know for sure but I would assume that both schools would not be under the same rules for recruitment since the nature of their schools is to recruit students.

Devon Park does not offer residences/accomodations like RNS so someone would have to have somewhere to live locally that they worked out on their own.

I agree Coach, different situation in Devon Park vs RNS, my comment was more directed at the RNS situation, quite unique in this province.
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Coachmac



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:56 pm

39forever wrote:
CoachDJR wrote:
39forever wrote:
driver59 wrote:
so they can get players from anywhere, they dont have to be in there area they just have to have the money? right?
or are they held to the same restrictions as any public schoolas far as recruitment?


The same questions could be asked of Rothesay Netherwood. "Subsidising" kids to come to your school for whatever reason doesn't seem quite right when it comes to interscholasic activities.

I don't know for sure but I would assume that both schools would not be under the same rules for recruitment since the nature of their schools is to recruit students.

Devon Park does not offer residences/accomodations like RNS so someone would have to have somewhere to live locally that they worked out on their own.

I agree Coach, different situation in Devon Park vs RNS, my comment was more directed at the RNS situation, quite unique in this province.

I don't think recruitment is why either of these teams are near the top of the standings. Of course it plays a part, but certain public schools have been accused of this, also. The reason both are good is excellent coaching and in DP case off season participation.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:05 pm

Recruitment is basically a non issue in terms of these teams success.

Both teams have strong coaching, niether team is taking top players from programs elsewhere in the province. If recruiting basketball players was either schools focus I'm sure they would have won high school titles previously, and in the case of DP would have been able to offer a varsity girls program this year.

I would say that the amount of time both teams/players (DP boys, RNS girls) put in the gym would rank up with the top programs in the province, but this is again not a recruitment issue.
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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:32 am

I have to agree with many statements regarding the DP program but I think there are 2 other schools in particular that show the same type of results.

Lets begin with McAdam, a school roughly the same size as DP and with a huge amount of talent. Every game I have watched the Warriers play it has been with dicipline and true grit. McAdam is a rural school with none of the advanteges spoken about by coach, mini ball, "y" ball, summer league, bball camp and so on yet they have a team that is top 3 in the provincial AA. Lets face it; the only excuse here for their success is hard work and exceptional coaching. Let me say it again "hard work".

What can be said about Sugarloaf; have these guys lost a game in the past 2 years? Again a relativly small school in a simi-rural area, far from almost all their oponents in distance and talent. Do you think it comes from drinking the water there? I don't think so! Again we have an instance where determination and hard work elevate them above everyone else. Just watch them play, they listen to there coach, they are even tempered, they execute flawlessly and they have confidence in their own abilities.

In a nutshell; it comes down to dicipline and hard work. If you have a group of kids that put aside their respective egos, listen to the coach and put in real effort, you will have a team that can compete in any high school gym in the province.
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guest321



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:29 am

Well said. Dp is successful because of these reasons! They work hard and listen and respect their coach. He's young but knows his stuff!
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guest321



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:30 am

Well said. Dp is successful because of these reasons! They work hard and listen and respect their coach. He's young but knows his stuff!
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20yearcoach



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:27 pm

I know the ass't coach of the girls team (he coached the RNS boys when they went to the Quarterfinals two years in a row) and he has spoken a ton about students going to RNS - they are not recruiting basketball players - hockey maybe but not basketball. Most of the girls on the RNS team have been there for 4 years and are playing soccer/field (fall) and rugby/row (spring) - they are not there playing ball all year like some players at other schools
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baller24



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:03 pm

These girls may not have been recruited to play basketball but many have to play soccer. So they are good athletes that now play basketball too.

If RNS wanted, they could win boys and girls sports at everything they play. Just look at hockey. They wanted a powerhouse so they went all over Canada to get players. They should not be able to participate in NBIAA activities if they are bringing kids in, especially giving them housing and tuition to come to their school.
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20yearcoach



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:13 pm

baller24 wrote:
These girls may not have been recruited to play basketball but many have to play soccer. So they are good athletes that now play basketball too.

If RNS wanted, they could win boys and girls sports at everything they play. Just look at hockey. They wanted a powerhouse so they went all over Canada to get players. They should not be able to participate in NBIAA activities if they are bringing kids in, especially giving them housing and tuition to come to their school.

Baller24 - Really??? RNS is recruiting soccer players? That is very interesting - I have never heard that about RNS. Hockey yes but I have never heard anything about soccer. They are recruiting for Hockey and took their boys team out of the NBIAA and I would imagine they are goig to do the same for the girls next year. No matter which way you cut it RNS has good programs - all students must participate in athletics so they get a leg up that way but they also lose time because the students are playing another sport while other schools are training for the upcoming season. I cannot see how a private school could stay around for 130 years if they are giving all of their students housing and paying for them to go to the school - i think you should look into your facts before writting them - sounds a bit liek sour grapes to me!?!?!?
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GM Breaker '84-'88



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:23 pm

scorekeep wrote:
I have to agree with many statements regarding the DP program but I think there are 2 other schools in particular that show the same type of results.

Lets begin with McAdam, a school roughly the same size as DP and with a huge amount of talent. Every game I have watched the Warriers play it has been with dicipline and true grit. McAdam is a rural school with none of the advanteges spoken about by coach, mini ball, "y" ball, summer league, bball camp and so on yet they have a team that is top 3 in the provincial AA. Lets face it; the only excuse here for their success is hard work and exceptional coaching. Let me say it again "hard work".

What can be said about Sugarloaf; have these guys lost a game in the past 2 years? Again a relativly small school in a simi-rural area, far from almost all their oponents in distance and talent. Do you think it comes from drinking the water there? I don't think so! Again we have an instance where determination and hard work elevate them above everyone else. Just watch them play, they listen to there coach, they are even tempered, they execute flawlessly and they have confidence in their own abilities.

In a nutshell; it comes down to dicipline and hard work. If you have a group of kids that put aside their respective egos, listen to the coach and put in real effort, you will have a team that can compete in any high school gym in the province.

Really?? Compared to who? 420 students from 9 to 12 - and 80 graduating students.

Biggest 'A' school - 2009 - Bathurst - Single A champions, Single A Junior champions.
Biggest 'A' school - 2010 - Sugarloaf - Single A champions, Single A Junior champions.
2011 - Shall I fill this in ? or shall you? Who do you think the favourite might be? Anybody see a pattern developing ??

Previous to this - when did the Bathurst & Sugarloaf boys win titles when they played similar sized schools?? Uh...huh.

Despite what your girlfriend says - size does matter.......McAdam, Harvey, GM - will always field decent teams, but they do not have the overall depth. If they have a player that can can play from grade 9, they'll usually play senior....that is not the case with 'bigger' schools - those players can stay in junior and develop properly.

For example - 2009 Bathurst beat GM in the junior final by 20, 2010 Sugarloaf beat GM by 25+ in the junior final. Our younger kids just could not compete...for being finals, these were not close.

Some day, someone will figure this out.....nah....I doubt it.
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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: GM is back and firing.   Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:04 pm

GM Breaker '84-'88 wrote:


? 420 students from 9 to 12 - and 80 graduating students.

Biggest 'A' school - 2009 - Bathurst - Single A champions, Single A Junior champions.
Biggest 'A' school - 2010 - Sugarloaf - Single A champions, Single A Junior champions.
2011 - Shall I fill this in ? or shall you? Who do you think the favourite might be? Anybody see a pattern developing ??

Previous to this - when did the Bathurst & Sugarloaf boys win titles when they played similar sized schools?? Uh...huh.

Despite what your girlfriend says - size does matter.......McAdam, Harvey, GM - will always field decent teams, but they do not have the overall depth. If they have a player that can can play from grade 9, they'll usually play senior....that is not the case with 'bigger' schools - those players can stay in junior and develop properly.

For example - 2009 Bathurst beat GM in the junior final by 20, 2010 Sugarloaf beat GM by 25+ in the junior final. Our younger kids just could not compete...for being finals, these were not close.

Some day, someone will figure this out.....nah....I doubt it.

I like it . .. its passionate, its topical . . its just not how I see it.

If we're looking at patterns lets talk about a couple of things:

- 2009 and 2010 AA should have been won by Dalhousie (much smaller then SSHS and BHS) but this school of 300 was busy being a top 5 AAA school.

- Sugarloaf has at no point played in a league with schools their size in the last 20 years since now I guess they are a big school and before they were in a division with schools of 600-700-800 students. Though they made it to at least one Aitken centre maybe a couple.

- 2010 AAA and AA finals boys and girls all won by the teams with more kids who could shoot it. 2009 AAA and AA finals all won by the teams with more kids who could shoot it. 2008 AAA-AA-A finals all won by teams that had more players who can shoot it. 2007. .. well I think you see the pattern. The numbers of kids who can shoot is not determined by the number of people born in a certain geographic area.

- I love when people talk about losing to big schools. After Sugarloaf last year the next 4-5 best schools in the province were traditional A schools. Sure SSHS won he title but the smaller schools with better programs were the ones making up the best in the province. No one complains about school size unless its winning, i don't hear Canterbury or Hartland complaining about having to play John Caldwell, Nackawic or ESA. I don't hear any of the southern schools complaining about having Fundy High in their league. Caledonia doesn't seem to have a problem with having Petti or JMA in their leagues. Most of the top AA schools (which are old A schools are better then most of the AAA schools in the province except maybe the top 8-10) thats not school size and they are overcoming depth of athlete with skilled kids/program. We seem to have no problem with big schools until they win?!?
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bballnb



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:40 pm

Well law of averages would tend to predict that larger schools woulld have more kids with raw talent.
Thus improving the overall basketball program.
And just because kids want to play or have a great coach does not mean the kids will be great players.

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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:54 pm

bballnb wrote:
Well law of averages would tend to predict that larger schools woulld have more kids with raw talent.
Thus improving the overall basketball program.
And just because kids want to play or have a great coach does not mean the kids will be great players.


Actually the law of averages would say that larger schools would have more kids who might have genetic or economic advantages so the have more kids with the potential to be talented.

On the other hand all of the latest research indicates that 'raw talent' is a misnomer. "Talent" is a bi-product of opportunity and acting on getting more quality practice then your competition sooner. The most "talented" people in the world just got and used more opportunities to practice then their peers.

I think it depends on how you define 'wants to play'. If wants is just that- would like to play on his school team, then no combining him/her with a great coach will not make a great player. If by 'want' you mean willing and able to do whatever it takes to be a player: extra practice, hours of practice on their own, willingness to be coached, finding every opportunity they can to compete to improve themselves then if you combine that with a great coach and you'll always have a great player.
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driver59



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:54 pm

awesome post coachDJR , that is the best ive ever heard that explained and im with you on that 100 %, its the sum of all the pieces that make a great team or program not just the size of the school or any one other thing.
With all that in mind it seems to me that trying to level the playing field every year would be a daunting task indeed, if the season was much longer and all the teams in the province could play each other a couple of times maybe we could have a seeding formatt that would allow teams of equal abilty to play in the same divison, but again the season would have to be much much longer, not likely to ever happen
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Dug Sea



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:00 pm

Welcome back Breaker. It never ceases to amaze me that you can have a better take on what is happening on the basketball scene back in your homeland than the local experts.

I do think your odds of winning can be greater based on an increased number of students. Add to that formula a great coach and the chances increase once again.

It is true these larger schools do not seem to be talked about until they start winning. Bring Forsythe back to Fundy and I am sure Breaker will give them some press time too.
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baller24



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:42 pm

These old "A" schools that you are talking about winning the "AA" just happen to have a good group of kids coming through at the moment.

If "A" schools played schools the size of Sugarloaf for a 20 year period, Sugarloaf would win 15 years out of the 20. The smaller schools can only compete some of the years. I am talking all sports here. Sure if you have a school like Campo with really small numbers they can compete in basketball, because they specialize in basketball.

Schools of 200 and below should not have to compete against schools of 500. It is even worse in AAA. A school of 508 (PTA) has to try to compete against FHS and Leo Hayes. Nobody on here can tell me this should ever happen.

The old three tier system was not perfect but it seemed to make a lot more sense
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Coachmac



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:44 pm

CoachDJR wrote:
bballnb wrote:
Well law of averages would tend to predict that larger schools woulld have more kids with raw talent.
Thus improving the overall basketball program.
And just because kids want to play or have a great coach does not mean the kids will be great players.


Actually the law of averages would say that larger schools would have more kids who might have genetic or economic advantages so the have more kids with the potential to be talented.

On the other hand all of the latest research indicates that 'raw talent' is a misnomer. "Talent" is a bi-product of opportunity and acting on getting more quality practice then your competition sooner. The most "talented" people in the world just got and used more opportunities to practice then their peers.

I think it depends on how you define 'wants to play'. If wants is just that- would like to play on his school team, then no combining him/her with a great coach will not make a great player. If by 'want' you mean willing and able to do whatever it takes to be a player: extra practice, hours of practice on their own, willingness to be coached, finding every opportunity they can to compete to improve themselves then if you combine that with a great coach and you'll always have a great player.

You are correct. The latest research is showing "Talent" is not born, it is nurtured. Through great coaching and committed practice(repetition). Read The Talent Code, it's a great book.
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Coachmac



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:48 pm

baller24 wrote:
These old "A" schools that you are talking about winning the "AA" just happen to have a good group of kids coming through at the moment.

If "A" schools played schools the size of Sugarloaf for a 20 year period, Sugarloaf would win 15 years out of the 20. The smaller schools can only compete some of the years. I am talking all sports here. Sure if you have a school like Campo with really small numbers they can compete in basketball, because they specialize in basketball.

Schools of 200 and below should not have to compete against schools of 500. It is even worse in AAA. A school of 508 (PTA) has to try to compete against FHS and Leo Hayes. Nobody on here can tell me this should ever happen.

The old three tier system was not perfect but it seemed to make a lot more sense

Do you people ever get tired of complaining about tiers? Eliminate all the tiers and have just one. It will take 5-6 years, but the small schools will find a way to compete.
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student



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:03 pm

this has become an interesting discussion. lots of factors are involved in a program becoming a championship group.
1. i like coaching. huge chance to make positive impact. teaching and challenging young minds
2. determination. for players and coaches, it drives effort to excel
3. school size. more players=more good players
4. scouting/recognizing real athletic ability. raw talent is valid because without it all the work in the world will only produce a fit teenager, not a talented player that gets into the top percentage of the overall group.
5. community. a basketball mentality produces a longstanding successful program. extends from a player to a coach to a team to a school to a city that fills the gym on a friday nite.
in the end these things all have to come together. enough of them come together to get wins in what most schools around here perceive as high points of a cycle. or an alignment of the stars. or a huge lottery win.
we can all think of examples.
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student



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PostSubject: Re: Top 10 2010-11   Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:08 pm

baller24, just school size alone is not enough. we had to look at wdstk the last 2 yrs at the ac. our girls got to get by them this yr. a school les than half our size
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