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HeartBBall



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:14 pm

How about this?
1. Vancouver College
2. Wj Moaut
3. Smus
4. Kits
5. Chirchill
6. Burnaby South
7.Lord Tweedsmuir
8. Pitt Meadows
9. Kelowna ss
10. Mcmath
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coach fabio



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:43 pm

Smus is too high
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coach fabio



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:48 pm

1. Vancouver College
2. Wj Moaut
3. Kits
4. Churchill
5. Smus
6. Burnaby South
7.Lord Tweedsmuir
8. Pitt Meadows
9. Kelowna ss
10. Mcmath

thoughts?
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HeartBBall



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:15 pm

Anyone know where I can find the Howie's ranking online??(latest version)
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True bball



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:15 pm

WRCA should be in the lower part of the top 10, until they play some top teams they will have to stay there. I hear they are in a Pitt tourney with van college and of course Pitt. Should be interesting to see how they do.
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JLivingston



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:27 pm

BBall Fanatic wrote:
WRCA should be in the lower part of the top 10, until they play some top teams they will have to stay there. I hear they are in a Pitt tourney with van college and of course Pitt. Should be interesting to see how they do.

Tough call but I dont know which team it should replace in the top 10. May be, a HM to wrca. Do you know what is it with Walnut that they keep getting high ranking in Howies but never played any good teams to justify.
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bc coach



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:31 pm

JLivingston wrote:
BBall Fanatic wrote:
WRCA should be in the lower part of the top 10, until they play some top teams they will have to stay there. I hear they are in a Pitt tourney with van college and of course Pitt. Should be interesting to see how they do.

Tough call but I dont know which team it should replace in the top 10. May be, a HM to wrca. Do you know what is it with Walnut that they keep getting high ranking in Howies but never played any good teams to justify.

From what i hear, the walnut coaches have a lot of pull.
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JLivingston



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:10 pm

bc coach wrote:
From what i hear, the walnut coaches have a lot of pull.

"pull" may not be possible but i just heard that they play only weak teams to look good.
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BBaller



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:28 pm

coach fabio wrote:
1. Vancouver College
2. Wj Moaut
3. Kits
4. Churchill
5. Smus
6. Burnaby South
7.Lord Tweedsmuir
8. Pitt Meadows
9. Kelowna ss
10. Mcmath

thoughts?

1. Vancouver College
2. Wj Moaut
3. Churchill
4. Lord Tweedsmuir
5. Kits
6. Burnaby South
7. SMUS
8. Kelowna
9. Pitt Meadows
10. Mcmath/WRCA

What about this? I think WRCA looks very good on paper and McMath has had its ups and downs so I'm going to put them both in the top 10, but at the bottom. There are still lots of teams worthy of HM.
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coach fabio



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:51 am

kits beat churhill shouldn't they be ahead of them?

I heard Kits was also in the pitt tourny is that true?
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BBaller



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:59 am

coach fabio wrote:
kits beat churhill shouldn't they be ahead of them?

I heard Kits was also in the pitt tourny is that true?

Churchill also beat South and South has beaten Kits twice. Place those 3 teams in any way you wish, my ranking of the 3 is just which team I think would come out on top most often.
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senthil



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:26 pm

In response to the postings on Hooplife, I am a coach at Walnut Grove HS and for what it is worth, do not care about the Junior rankings. Our main goals are to prepare the team and have them playing their optimum for the Fraser Valleys. The current rankings have little value and the top teams will be decided at the end of the year. There are many good teams this year that on any given night have an opportunity to hoist the trophy. This isn't Div 1 and too many of you are putting great significance on the rankings and whom are the top players. The players and respective teams will determine this for everyone's whom is interested. before criticizing a team or a program you should have good insight of them, because you could look pretty foolish if these teams win. Putting great relevance on a score, means nothing. For instance, when I played university we lost to the number 1 ranked team in the country in the OUAA championship game, but beat the same team severel week later in the National Championship game. The game of basketball is won and lost on the court and as coaches we try to give players the best opportunity to win especially by the end of the year. Regarding our recent tournament championship at the Semiahmoo Tourney a main priority was to get as many of our 19 players on the court as possible including the championship game. I'll take nothing away from Johnston Heights spirited effort, but we played numerous players and at one point we are up by over 20 in the 3rd quarter. Matter of fact we left the starters off until 2 minutes remaining and Jheights cutting the lead down to 9 points. Don't overanalyze scores and results, coaches have their own agendas, which aren't attempting to impress the self-proclaimed gurus of basketball. Lastly, we may have obtained a favorable ranking, because our Grade 8 Team finishing 3rd at the Provincials last season and some very good Grade 10 players returning. I would have ranked us that high as well and gladly taken on any and all competition. We've decided to move two of the top grade 10 players to Seniors to assist in their own personal development, because Grade 12 is where it really counts for them as players if they are to move on in their careers. Our team this year is very young, we have some very good Grade 9 and 10 players. Yes, we haven't played all the top teams, but have beaten South Burnaby, Terry Fox and STM among others. This weekend we are traveling to Courtenay and playing Lambrick Park on Friday and some other good Island teams in a tournament and later this month we'll be playing Mouat twice and Pitt once. We've tried to schedule a game with Lord Tweedsmuir, but unfortunately were unable too. So by the end of the season we'll see where we are at and need to go. I can ensure you one thing though, our kids will play hard and compete in every game they are in.

Coach Michael

PS: This is posted thro my account and I am one of the parent.- Senthil
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JLivingston



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:05 am

Coach michael, i didnt mean to upset you. Since you guys were never seen around vancouver side games, wondering what is cooking. It is nothing but curiosity to see what you got. good luck to your team.
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cj35



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:32 am

Jan 12 Rankings
JUNIOR

1. Vancouver College Fighting Irish

2. Kitsilano Blue Demons

3. Walnut Grove Gators (Langley)

4. St. Michaels University School Blue Jags (Victoria)

5. Pitt Meadows Marauders

6. St. George's Saints

7. White Rock Christian Academy Warriors (Surrey)

8. Yale Lions (Abbotsford)

9. Enver Creek Cougars (Surrey)

10. W.J. Mouat Hawks (Abbotsford)

Honorable mention -- Lambrick Park Lions (Victoria), Dr. Charles Best Blue Devils (Coquitlam), Duchess Park Condors (Prince George), KLO Middle Cougars (Kelowna), L.V. Rogers Bombers (Nelson).

Teams to watch -- Brentwood College (Mill Bay), Pinetree Timberwolves (Coquitlam), McMath Wildcats (Richmond), J.N. Burnett Breakers (Richmond)


These rankings are laughable.

No Churchill? No Tweeds? No Kelowna? No Burnaby South? SMU still at 4 after their poor showing at VC? Saints at 6?????

Lambrick Park also placed badly in the VC tournament and were thrashed by Lord Byng....61-43 who was up 20+ the whole game and had the bench in at the end at the Oak Bay tournament. Tweeds also beat Lambrick by 14 they do not belong at #11.

I am confident that I'm not the only one who is going to respond this way to the rankings. Perhaps Howard should do the rankings himself or find someone who is willing to figure out what is happening outside of Vancouver Island.



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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: CORRECT Jan. 12 Junior rankings   Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:29 am

To see all three JR polls for this seaosn go to www.sportvictoria.com

The following list is what Ian Hyde-Lay released for the January 12 rankings.

"JR" Poll # 3
January 12, 2011
Current/Team/Previous
1. Walnut Grove (Langley) (2)
2. St. Michaels (Victoria) (1)
3. Vancouver College (3)
4. Kitsilano (Vancouver) (4)
5. White Rock Christian (7)
6. W.J. Mouat (Abbotsford) ( 8 )
7. Sir Winston Churchill (Vancouver) (10)
8. Kelowna (13)
9. Pitt Meadows (5)
10. Yale (Abbotsford) (9)
11. Lord Tweedsmuir (Surrey) (NR)
12. Burnaby South (15)
13. Duchess Park (Prince George) (11)
14. LV Rodgers (Nelson) (NR)
15. JN Burnett (Richmond) (NR)

Honourable mention (listed alphabetically)
HM Carson Graham (North Vancouver) (NR)
HM Enver Creek (Surrey) (NR)
HM KLO (Kelowna) (NR)
HM St. Georges (Vancouver) (6)
HM Westsyde (Kamloops) (NR)

NR = Not ranked in
previous week's poll


Last edited by Sportvictoria on Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Don't be so quick to judge   Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:40 am

CJ - don't be so quick to judge and throw blame around.

In the first place - it's incredibly difficult to do rankings when teams don't always send in results. This makes it VERY hard.

Secondly - the JR rankings issued below are a typo. They were the pre-season rankings from this year. A boo-boo on Howard's part. Nothing major, easily fixed. I received the same release that Howard did and almost did the same boo-boo. Again - nothing major, easily fixed.

You also owe Coach Hyde-Lay an apology for your comments below.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria



cj35 wrote:
Jan 12 Rankings
JUNIOR

1. Vancouver College Fighting Irish

2. Kitsilano Blue Demons

3. Walnut Grove Gators (Langley)

4. St. Michaels University School Blue Jags (Victoria)

5. Pitt Meadows Marauders

6. St. George's Saints

7. White Rock Christian Academy Warriors (Surrey)

8. Yale Lions (Abbotsford)

9. Enver Creek Cougars (Surrey)

10. W.J. Mouat Hawks (Abbotsford)

Honorable mention -- Lambrick Park Lions (Victoria), Dr. Charles Best Blue Devils (Coquitlam), Duchess Park Condors (Prince George), KLO Middle Cougars (Kelowna), L.V. Rogers Bombers (Nelson).

Teams to watch -- Brentwood College (Mill Bay), Pinetree Timberwolves (Coquitlam), McMath Wildcats (Richmond), J.N. Burnett Breakers (Richmond)


These rankings are laughable.

No Churchill? No Tweeds? No Kelowna? No Burnaby South? SMU still at 4 after their poor showing at VC? Saints at 6?????

Lambrick Park also placed badly in the VC tournament and were thrashed by Lord Byng....61-43 who was up 20+ the whole game and had the bench in at the end at the Oak Bay tournament. Tweeds also beat Lambrick by 14 they do not belong at #11.

I am confident that I'm not the only one who is going to respond this way to the rankings. Perhaps Howard should do the rankings himself or find someone who is willing to figure out what is happening outside of Vancouver Island.



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coach fabio



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:47 am

smus and walnut are to high
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JLivingston



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:04 pm

I think Coach Ian never got the scoresheet of bbysouth game against kits and smus.
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valleyball



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:49 pm


With all due respect to sport victoria, the only apology should be to the kids who work so hard and with such passion for the game of basketball and their schools are being not given fair rankings.
Rankings should be about results, plain and simple, no excuses for losses (unless injury to key starter).

I truly feel sorry for Kelowna, Winston Churchill, Burnaby South and others who in the past month have done much more than others ranked higher. Lets put our egos aside and be objective. If some of these teams didnot come from big name schools, and we objectively looked at their results, their would different rankings.

Too much weight is being put on the big name schools, rather than their current form. For instance, I am informed Kelowna travelled to the coast and beat Pitt, Burnaby South and another school. But why is Pitt ranked higher? Then another post stated the case for Churchill, who should be in the top five. What more do they have to do to earn people's respect and why is kitts ranked higher based on current form

Maybe rankings just look more legitimate with the big name schools, I don't know. I have nothing against anyone, but it seems there is a great deal of bias, which is unfortunate.

I think WRCA should be 2nd ranked right behind VC.

Could someone please break down the top 15 and list their wins/losses till jan 12. Or just the losses of the top 10, as it will probably illustrate my point of people not wanting to look beyond certain schools and see the big picture. We owe it to the kids to be accurate this is who this is about. maybe coach sharda is going to do his rankings again?
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: JR rankings   Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:34 pm

Sportvictoria does not do the JR rankings. Sportvictoria is just a place you can go and see all the year's rankings on one place. That is how the Province 'boo-boo' (which has already been corrected by Howard) was spotted.

Let me ask you this... all inside one weak this happens; 1 plays 2 and wins by 20. 2 plays 3 and wins by 20. 3 plays 1 and wins by 1. Who's the top team?

Rankings work best went done on a weekly basis. The problem in JR is that COACHES DON'T SEND IN RESULTS on a consistant basis. Some teams will only send in scores when they win, but not when they lose and sometimes not at all. Is this fair to the kids? Is this fair to the pollsters that are volunteering their time and trying to do the best job they can with the info they receive.

Rankings would be really easy if all teams submitted their results, win or lose, on the SAME DAY they play the game. Not a week or month later but the same day. But that does not happen. Thus the domino effect takes place.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria


valleyball wrote:

With all due respect to sport victoria, the only apology should be to the kids who work so hard and with such passion for the game of basketball and their schools are being not given fair rankings.
Rankings should be about results, plain and simple, no excuses for losses (unless injury to key starter).

I truly feel sorry for Kelowna, Winston Churchill, Burnaby South and others who in the past month have done much more than others ranked higher. Lets put our egos aside and be objective. If some of these teams didnot come from big name schools, and we objectively looked at their results, their would different rankings.

Too much weight is being put on the big name schools, rather than their current form. For instance, I am informed Kelowna travelled to the coast and beat Pitt, Burnaby South and another school. But why is Pitt ranked higher? Then another post stated the case for Churchill, who should be in the top five. What more do they have to do to earn people's respect and why is kitts ranked higher based on current form

Maybe rankings just look more legitimate with the big name schools, I don't know. I have nothing against anyone, but it seems there is a great deal of bias, which is unfortunate.

I think WRCA should be 2nd ranked right behind VC.

Could someone please break down the top 15 and list their wins/losses till jan 12. Or just the losses of the top 10, as it will probably illustrate my point of people not wanting to look beyond certain schools and see the big picture. We owe it to the kids to be accurate this is who this is about. maybe coach sharda is going to do his rankings again?
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valleyball



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:52 pm

dear sport victoria

once again, if this is about the kids, then for the benefit of all, provide the contact information to send the information/results. This way it is accessible and consistent. Thats all what every player in the province deserves is the proper recognition and support.

My only grief is if we are conducting rankings, please ensure everyone is aware of who to send the results to. Lets ensure the process is fair and the playing field is level. As far as volunteers, most adults involved in youth sports are volunteers, and want to give back to the community, and any valid criticism should not be seen as a personal attack to Ian Hyde Lay.

Our goal should be the development of basketball the right way, just as you are doing with your website. Its great to see the enthusiasm in junior basketball and keep it progressing
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: JR ranking issues   Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:27 pm

Emails are sent out and coaches are asked to forward to other coaches so that contact lists can be updated. When the forwarding is not done, what is the result and what can be done?

Some schools change coaches and then don't send in updates to this fact. How is anyone to know?

Coach Hyde-Lay at SMUS has been doing this for 3 years and yet people can 'claim' that they don't know who to send it into? How is this possible? Before that is it was Cowichan, before that is was Terry Fox. All had the exact same problem - coaches DID NOT send in timely results, if at all.

I get the CC when the emails go out. I see the massive email list that is being used. The efforts are being made to make those contacts... but when efforts are not made to turn in the results... this is where your problem lies. NOT in the person that is working diligently to collect the info and produce the poll.

A critique is fine. But it MUST be done with knowledge and not based on supposition. The last few posts have all followed a typo in the Province newspaper.

The person that I had posted a response to had quickly made an uninformed supposition. I pointed out the error, showed the correction and asked that they not be too quick to judge. Even if you look back in this thread you will see that the Jan 12 poll that was posted by the Province was in fact the pre-season poll. Well, this effort of looking back was not done. So it was warranted that I ask the person not to be too quick to judge. When they did make their comment they made a disparaging remark directed at Coach Hyde-Lay. This was not appropriate nor warranted and that person should still post an apology to Coach Hyde-Lay.

If a coach does not know whom to send in the results too, how much of an effort do you think it would take on their end to find out the correct person to actually send the info to? Think about that.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria



valleyball wrote:
dear sport victoria

once again, if this is about the kids, then for the benefit of all, provide the contact information to send the information/results. This way it is accessible and consistent. Thats all what every player in the province deserves is the proper recognition and support.

My only grief is if we are conducting rankings, please ensure everyone is aware of who to send the results to. Lets ensure the process is fair and the playing field is level. As far as volunteers, most adults involved in youth sports are volunteers, and want to give back to the community, and any valid criticism should not be seen as a personal attack to Ian Hyde Lay.

Our goal should be the development of basketball the right way, just as you are doing with your website. Its great to see the enthusiasm in junior basketball and keep it progressing
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cj35



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PostSubject: Re: Official Rankings   Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:48 pm

[quote="Sportvictoria"]Emails are sent out and coaches are asked to forward to other coaches so that contact lists can be updated. When the forwarding is not done, what is the result and what can be done?

Some schools change coaches and then don't send in updates to this fact. How is anyone to know?

Coach Hyde-Lay at SMUS has been doing this for 3 years and yet people can 'claim' that they don't know who to send it into? How is this possible? Before that is it was Cowichan, before that is was Terry Fox. All had the exact same problem - coaches DID NOT send in timely results, if at all.

I get the CC when the emails go out. I see the massive email list that is being used. The efforts are being made to make those contacts... but when efforts are not made to turn in the results... this is where your problem lies. NOT in the person that is working diligently to collect the info and produce the poll.

A critique is fine. But it MUST be done with knowledge and not based on supposition. The last few posts have all followed a typo in the Province newspaper.

The person that I had posted a response to had quickly made an uninformed supposition. I pointed out the error, showed the correction and asked that they not be too quick to judge. Even if you look back in this thread you will see that the Jan 12 poll that was posted by the Province was in fact the pre-season poll. Well, this effort of looking back was not done. So it was warranted that I ask the person not to be too quick to judge. When they did make their comment they made a disparaging remark directed at Coach Hyde-Lay. This was not appropriate nor warranted and that person should still post an apology to Coach Hyde-Lay.

If a coach does not know whom to send in the results too, how much of an effort do you think it would take on their end to find out the correct person to actually send the info to? Think about that.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria


1. Mr Dhur perhaps you should "look back on this thread" as you suggest to others. I posted this (located below) on Dec 18 on this very thread. There was no response. I have coached in Richmond and Vancouver at junior and senior levels for over 15 years. I feel it WOULD take quite some effort to find out who to send results to since this has not been discussed or shared at any organizational meeting or email I have received.


"I have never heard that coaches were supposed to send their scores in to SMU...leagues have never been asked to do this, nor coaches, nor does it say anything to that effect on SMUS provincial junior boys website.....are you sure about this? Ian might not appreciate piles of scores showing up in his inbox."



As you can see from my post do respect Coach Hyde-Lay and the program he runs and the hours he has put in over the years. We all do here as current coaches and hopefully future coaches for many of the players here. All of us volunteer. Ian has volunteered to host Prov's and do the rankings. The basketball community is appreciative of this. We as coaches are often criticized for our decisions. Not all will agree. As with rankings not all will agree. I was simply responding to what I felt was an outrageous ranking for this week. And rightfully so considering that it was the wrong one posted. Do I now understand why it was so out of whack? Yes. It was an honest mistake, a typo we've all done it. No offence was intended by myself. It was more of an understanding...that if Ian had too much coaching, too busy with work, too busy with his kid that other coaches could be polled or called to get an accurate ranking...it's not that important for the rankings this week, but is for seeding at the provincial tournament for those involved to be informed.

2. I would not call reading something in the newspaper an "uninformed supposition". Nor was I so ignorant as to not check the first ranking as you suggest. It was since I understood the mistaken ranking as very similar to the first that I was disappointed that some kids and coaches were not being recognized for their achievements on a very superficial level and also was worried that some kids and coaches would not have a fair chance at competing. My comment regarding Lambrick being ranked was simply an extension of an upcoming point of contention. That is, if Van Island only has one team in the top 10 will they deserve 4 provincial berths or should SMU take one of the 3 island berths and give the last berth to a deserving team in a strong division (VC, Kits, Churchill?) I did not mean to disparage any person or team.

3. The new rankings are better. I tend to agree with Karn's more. Walnut is unproven and ranked too high. I disagree with SMU at 2. They were not even in the top 5 in the Emerald tournament much less the province. A very good team yes, Mark Yorath is a very solid player. Maybe not #2 right now. But yes...rankings are hard to do. But they create passion and discussion which is healthy and good for our sport. Especially if they inspire kids.

So Mr Dhur, in closing I will not apologize for my comments. They were warranted. But make no mistake your work on the AA rankings and Ian's on the Junior is appreciated.



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