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 Play hard or don't play

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Once a Warrior...



Posts : 49
Join date : 2010-01-24

PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:36 am

bballnb wrote:
Devon Park beat Nackawic the other night by 113 points.
Beating a team is one thing..... humilating a team is not right. I thought DP Christians would know better.
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coach12



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:05 am

I know 113 pts is a huge number...here's a scenario: What happens if Nakawic can't get the ball over half with DP's trap and continue to give them "breakaway" lay-ups. I would naturally assume that DP wouldn't press with their starters the entire game. (as I've only ever seen one team press the entire game when it was a beating) What I have seen in the past though, is I've seen DP bring their JV kids along to play some of the weaker teams in the province. What happens when it's their JV kids just playing strong half court defense and a team just continues to put the ball into their hands.

The only thing I'd say would be that I've watched AAA teams beat other teams by a ton and really couldn't help it...coach never pressed or half court trapped all game, starters played a couple of minutes in the game, and they still beat the teams by 80 pts and it almost can't be helped.

I'm guessing that the same thing happened in that game.

What's worse...laying the ball in or turning back? It's a very fine line to walk in those types of games.
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Defensewinsgames



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:08 am

If you as a coach or player have taken the steps that you can to show sportsmanship than the otehr team should be fine with it. I believe the leading team should have their bench players in and developing their skills. I think that the players who are on the floor should be playing 100% whether they are up or down. Chances are they are getting more playing time than usual and for us AA teams who do not have JV programs it is when we get to develop our younger players. For this reason I do not care if there is still a press... in fact when I have been down and the other team pulled off the press I have asked that they put it back on with their bench players so mine can work on the press break. This being said there are a couple things that tick me off in games like this...

If the bench is in then the press is fine but there should be no press if the starters are still playing. I have been involved in a couple games where my players were down by 30+ and I had already let me bench get some time to play and the other coach still had his starters in pressing my bench... I have lost all respect for those coaches.

I also have a problem with the players who do a lot of showing off after they score a simple basket when they are way up. If you score just go play defence... it is different if it is a rookie scoring their first points or something of that nature. I also hate it when a team up by alot throws up a shot from their own end at the end of the 4th quarter... like they needed the extra 3 points.

I also do not like when the refs start to ref differently because it is a blow out. I know some foul calls will be made or not made to keep the score respectful but when they tell the table to not stop the clock in the last 2 minutes so it speeds up this is only cheating the younger players out of time to develop. Or when they do not call travels or double dribbles they are not helping them learn to play. (Sorry to all officials reading this... I respect your job 100% and do not usually complain about the quality of reffering and as a coach you will never here me complain to you in a game.)

So Play hard while respecting your opponents or not at all.
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baller24



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:04 am

Yes, play hard and respect your opponents.

There is a problem though if you are 40+ points better than everyone you play. I agree that the bench should be playing but not at the expense of your starters not being able to play the minutes they need to deep improving.

Back in the days before Leo Hayes and FHS was dominating everything, none of the FHS starters would have played past the 5 minute mark in the first quarter.

There is too big of a gap between the level of play in most of this province. The classification system is what it is and we need to be able to teach our athletes how to win and lose properly while still having them all improve their games.
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Maripac30



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:17 am

baller24 wrote:
Yes, play hard and respect your opponents.

There is a problem though if you are 40+ points better than everyone you play. I agree that the bench should be playing but not at the expense of your starters not being able to play the minutes they need to deep improving.

Back in the days before Leo Hayes and FHS was dominating everything, none of the FHS starters would have played past the 5 minute mark in the first quarter.

There is too big of a gap between the level of play in most of this province. The classification system is what it is and we need to be able to teach our athletes how to win and lose properly while still having them all improve their games.
Who is 40+ better than "everyone" they play???? Sugarloaf is the best AA team in the province and they are not 40 points better than everyone they play. Yes they have some weak teams in their conference whom they have to play. But they conpensate for that with the way they schedule their exhibition games which are against AAA teams and the top AA teams. Their starters get lots of floor time.
A lot of it comes down to how you schedule your season, are you scheduling against teams you can beat and pad your record or are you scheduling against teams that are going to make you better.
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coach12



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:21 am

To me...here's what it comes down to. Yes, absolutely respect your opponents. Respect them by playing hard and not rubbing in a victory. (that just goes without saying)

As someone who's lost a fair amount of games, anytime I(my team) takes a beating, I always look in the mirror and ask myself a couple of questions.

What do I need to do to "fix"/change my program? How can I make my team more competitive? What do the "top" programs in the province do to get themselves to continuously play at such a high level?

I wonder though why we continuously take shots at programs/kids who put in the extra effort (ie. weight room, summer ball, extra shooting) on their own time. We ask those programs not to play their best players because other programs are not as strong, or simply choose not to put in that extra effort on their own time. I do agree with a point made earlier, that a lot of the better players suffer with lack of playing time because they and their teammates put in a lot of work to get better.

I understand the fact that teams shouldn't "embarrass" another team, but we can't get mad at a program because their bench players are as strong as some starters and the score finishes quite one-sided.
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baller24



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:00 pm

Maripac, after watching the girls from Tobique play in Bathurst, they are 40+ better than anyone, and it looked to me like they limited their starters alot that tournament. I am sure it is the same situation with the FHS boys JV team.

Coach12, I agree
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student



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:08 pm

from what i hear teams can apply to move up but it has to be for 2 yrs. coaches should apply each yr to play up for that yr only. coaches commite can evaluate team talent pretty quick. shake things up and foster some competition for a change. coaches should be encouraged to make the jump when it benefits that team and not held back from getting certain atheletes a look at a challenge. or getting some players a chance to be seen. and you will take some teams out of situations where they blow everybody out.
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highlightreel



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:15 pm

I love when teams are up by 80 it's so exciting lololool that is when i look at my team and say you guys really suck what did i do to deserve to be on a team that sucks this bad and can't do anything about it because it's my last year and i will never play basketball again and the only memories i have is getting my ass kicked all the time ahhahhahhahahaha just a scenario do with it as you please but some teams are just that good even the bench is that much better then the other team maybe having the three tiers instead of the two was a good idea just a thought but maybe it is too soon to tell need to give it more time for the bad teams to get better to level things out who knows!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:18 pm

There are some teams in NB that have no competition in their division that came come within 40 points of their bench let alone 40 points with starters playing.

When you have 2 teams like McAdam and Harvey with deep benches, great point guards and terrific coaching they can run over everyone near by. Is it becuase they have 200 kids to choose from? NOT! It is becuase the kids work hard, the coaches coach hard and they strive to do well.

Respect for eachother and respect for the game is paramount. Win graciously, loose graciously but play as hard as you can.

Great input and perspective here guys.
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bballnb



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:44 pm

Maybe we need the single A division back?
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student



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:50 pm

if those 2 teams are that great they should move up to competition
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AA Fan



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:37 pm

The old tier system was not alot better . Remember TV is a A school not a AA school . Devon Park is an A school also so this does not solve the problem !!!
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ThePhoenix



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:43 pm

There are multiple problems with not playing hard
first of all if you have the situation FHS use to have, the starters would never get to play the minutes they had earned. That would be a terrible situation if you had worked so hard just to sit for all your league games. certinly no fun for them

Then what happens when your bench is better then the team's (that your playing) starters. Then they are still beating them as some of you would call "embarrisingly". what are you suppose to do? Stop scoring even if teams are basically handing you easy layups or shots? That is when players devolop bad habbits. Ofense becomes lazy. defence is slack. Next time your team plays a strong team those bad habbits end up giving you a poor start which could determine the outcome of a game.

Also, Think back to the last time you OR your team lost big time, did you like it? did it make you say, "Oh, we got nothing that needs improving. Thats great boys. keep it up!" or did it make you want to improve and get better?? Did it give you the taste in your mouth that you just couldnt wait to get rid of by winning the next game? while it sucks to loose by a lot, as its said "loosing is best if you learn from your mistakes"

Now I recognize some schools and programs dont give a hoot about thier basketball and in that case maybe they need a good thumping or two. if they dont have willingness to put in the time why should anyone "take it easy on them". Im sure someone will say, "well my school just doesnt have the numbers to compete". Some of the best teams in the AA are some of the smallest. Campo, McAdem, DP, Topic Vally for the girls.

So when its all said and done "Play Hard. or dont play at all!"
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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:21 am

Welcome to the discussion cellphonex.

Looks like the opinion has come full circle. Great points and I must say that the scores on the web today have shown a few severe blow outs by girls and boys teams alike.

Play and play hard! Give it all you got, put your practice into action and let your oppenents deal with it the best they can.

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CoachDJR



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:22 pm

I have no idea how going to 3 divisions would solve this: teams that are thumping people in AA are for the most part A schools. Teams getting thumped in the (Nackawic, ESA, JC, etc) get to move up into a division with Rothesay, Woodstock, Carleton North, St Stephen and get thumped. AAA schools that could thump people (FHS, LHHS) but have a fairly competitive small league so they can hand pick the rest of their schedule, suddenly have to combine with the south and need to play like 18 league games 12+ of which will be blowouts.


Leagues don't solve or make problems, win or lose games, have issues. PLayers and coaches do.
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Coachmac



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:28 pm

CoachDJR wrote:
I have no idea how going to 3 divisions would solve this: teams that are thumping people in AA are for the most part A schools. Teams getting thumped in the (Nackawic, ESA, JC, etc) get to move up into a division with Rothesay, Woodstock, Carleton North, St Stephen and get thumped. AAA schools that could thump people (FHS, LHHS) but have a fairly competitive small league so they can hand pick the rest of their schedule, suddenly have to combine with the south and need to play like 18 league games 12+ of which will be blowouts.


Leagues don't solve or make problems, win or lose games, have issues. PLayers and coaches do.

Well said.
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hellishhayde



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:41 am

when teams are up by 40 a fcp or hcp is the cheapest thing they can do while running starters, theyre only 1 way to discourage them from it , that is if they dont cut it out when you break the press, and in the worrds of this "big" donot care for the term move it or sit down
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student



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:05 pm

please elaborate
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hellishhayde



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:54 pm

student wrote:
please elaborate
when a team runs a fcp or hcp its hard to move the ball, even when you break the press multiple time they continue with it, you have to show them your not ganna lay down and let them walk on you, and it usally involves a good block ,followed by wicked hard drive and when they meet ya you dont slow down at all then you will get moving room
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student



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:55 pm

so you are talking about physical play? initiating contact to send a message? and teams who press?
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baller24



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:01 pm

Seems like a good fix to me, especially if they are still pressing with their starters.
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student



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:37 pm

if a little bit of contact stops a team from pressing then they werent really pressing. or they are babies.
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hellishhayde



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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:08 pm

im probably the bigest big in the leage not the best but when i draw fouls it is not usaly something yad wanna be on the reciving end of
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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:17 am

bigish is putting out a warning if you tromp his team hes a gonna tromp you. Be careful guys cuse bigish is on the prowl.

Did your coach teach you that playing strategy or did you come up with that all by yourself?
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PostSubject: Re: Play hard or don't play   Today at 5:12 am

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