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 Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results

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Who will won the "AAA" Lower Mainlands
Bby South
38%
 38% [ 11 ]
Palmer
24%
 24% [ 7 ]
VC
10%
 10% [ 3 ]
Tupper
14%
 14% [ 4 ]
Kits
7%
 7% [ 2 ]
Byrne Creek
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Other
7%
 7% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 29
 

AuthorMessage
hoopnharm



Posts : 30
Join date : 2011-02-06

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:04 am

Mark Scott wrote:

I am going to respond to the post from hoopnharm briefly. I identified myself as a parent of a St. George's player to give context to my comments - I think that is fair. I also use my real name because I think everyone should be prepared to stand behind their own statements.

I do not think hoopnharm is in a position, particularly real-nameless as he is, to give me instruction on what advice I should be giving my son. In future, please stick to the topic, not giving parental advice.

I look forward to discussing real alternatives to a divisive problem with real people.

OK- Let's stick to the topic of how you are clearly out to lunch on almost everything you attempt to talk about

For example:

RC Palmer is a member of the Vancouver Secondary Schools Athletic Association

Handsworth deserved a play-in to the provincials in Rob Sacre's grade 12 year because they were trapped behind a juggernaut team in West Van, who were simply too strong for Handsworth to overcome and take the Howe Sound title

and your PM's include gems such as: "There is a difference between being second in a league with one berth than in a league with many berths. Your logic, if I may use that word for what you are saying, is that whenever any team comes second it is too bad, suck it up, learn to live with failure."

No. NO ONE is saying that. If a team comes second, and the zone happens to have two berths into the LM tourney, fine, no one will be complaining. That's exactly what went down when Emerson Murray won it all in grade 11. If a team comes second, and the zone only has one berth into the LM tourney, like it is now, then yeah, tough luck.

Did you see MT Boucherie shedding tears and whining to BCHSBBA because they were "trapped" behind South Kamloops last year? Was there a backdoor play-in for them? No. Because they knew that they lost fair and square, and that was it. Their mandate was to win the Okanagan to make provincials, and they failed and took it like MEN. They were a VERY GOOD team and they went down SWINGING. Not whining about how unfair it was and having their parents fight their battles for them like little school children.
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Lefon Jang



Posts : 84
Join date : 2010-11-02

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:49 am

Hoopnharm,

That’s exactly what we’re talking about here; teams that are good enough and deserve to be in the Provincial should be in the Provincial. Teams such as MT Boucherie and Handsworth should be given a second chance. The fact that they didn’t complain does not mean that they didn’t deserve a second chance. What we’re trying to accomplish here is to come up with a system that provides a backdoor for the good teams from various regions to play their way in. Perhaps a 16-teams format with 4 teams reserved for backdoor play-in as suggested by Sportvictoria is not such a bad idea if all the logistic and timing can be worked out. We’re not here to argue for the sake of arguing. Let’s not take one step forward and three steps back.
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okanaganbball



Posts : 428
Join date : 2010-02-22
Location : The Okanagan

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:06 am

The back door play would cause a lot of travelling (on any year that a team from outside of the Lower Mainland was ranked but didn't make it) right after regional playoffs and immediately prior to Provincials. Why not keep the berths as they are for now, so there is true regional representation from British Columbia, but also, as has been suggested, have other berths that are doled out by a selection committee comprised of people who are as unbiased as possible. Sort of a mini-Selection Sunday process.
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Sportvictoria



Posts : 544
Join date : 2010-11-28
Age : 47
Location : Victoria BC Canada

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:09 am

Lefon Jang wrote:
Hoopnharm,

That’s exactly what we’re talking about here; teams that are good enough and deserve to be in the Provincial should be in the Provincial. Teams such as MT Boucherie and Handsworth should be given a second chance. The fact that they didn’t complain does not mean that they didn’t deserve a second chance. What we’re trying to accomplish here is to come up with a system that provides a backdoor for the good teams from various regions to play their way in. Perhaps a 16-teams format with 4 teams reserved for backdoor play-in as suggested by Sportvictoria is not such a bad idea if all the logistic and timing can be worked out. We’re not here to argue for the sake of arguing. Let’s not take one step forward and three steps back.


Lefon,

I never suggested 16 and 4 for a total of 20. I suggested 20 and 4 for a total of 24.

Keep the current 20-team distribution and add 4 more berths as play-in games (playoff games to take place on the Monday/Tuesday following the regionals).

That is the format that I submitted 6 or 7 years ago and the Prez at the time would not even allow it to be discussed or put on the agenda.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria

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bball_6319



Posts : 41
Join date : 2010-01-05

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:20 am

Who is the president now and why aren't we hearing anything but silence from the BCHSBBA?
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hoopnharm



Posts : 30
Join date : 2011-02-06

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:45 pm

Lefon Jang wrote:
Hoopnharm,

That’s exactly what we’re talking about here; teams that are good enough and deserve to be in the Provincial should be in the Provincial. Teams such as MT Boucherie and Handsworth should be given a second chance. The fact that they didn’t complain does not mean that they didn’t deserve a second chance.

Just because Handsworth had a high ranking didn't justify a second chance for them. There's a word for teams that don't live up to the hype: over-rated. If you can't perform at a zone playoff against a so-called inferior opponent, then how do they deserve to compete at the provincials?

Teams that are good enough to be in the provincials make the provincials, and to quote one of my favorite TV characters, deserve got nothing to do with it. You either perform when the pressure's on, or you don't. That's why we play the games. I'm sure the Mavericks would've loved to have a do-over against the Warriors in 07 when they had the best record in the league, but those are the breaks when you choke.

Team sports are more than just leisure activities, they teach valuable life lessons to these kids. Adults as coaches, spectators, and parents are doing the teenagers no favors by telling the kids they have to do X to get Y, but when they fail to do X, give them another way out to get Y. Treading dangerously close to "everyone gets a trophy" mentality.

There are always winners and losers. It's how you deal with the winning and losing that makes you a real man. If you lose, hold your head high and don't cheapen your efforts by crying for a second chance afterward. Show some backbone and let these kids know there isn't anything wrong with fighting with everything they've got and coming up short. That's life.
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Sportvictoria



Posts : 544
Join date : 2010-11-28
Age : 47
Location : Victoria BC Canada

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:08 pm

Textbook didn't like the fact that I was offended by what someone else posted and I made it known.

And yes Textbook, I sign my name to things I say. I'm willing to back up my comments. I notice that you do not.



Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria


Last edited by Sportvictoria on Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:42 am; edited 3 times in total
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CharlesII



Posts : 74
Join date : 2010-03-31

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:08 am

Lyle, the guy was asking a question, you didn't have to reply back in that way or in that tone of voice. I've been noticing that your replies to people are somewhat questionably rude, people do not come here to get bashed by "Lyle Dhur from SportVictoria" but they ask for insight, and most of the time you give them attitude. You don't run this forum just because you're "Lyle Dhur" from SportVictoria. Be more respectful to others here.
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Mark Scott



Posts : 286
Join date : 2011-01-05

PostSubject: Character   Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:12 pm


One of the great benefits of sport is its role in developing character. Hoopnharm correctly points out that building positive character traits involves accepting defeat after fighting and coming up short. That is life.

In this case, the dispute over fairness in the allocation of berths is polarizing and there are valid points on both sides of the issue. The Lower Mainland has its reasons for supporting their tournament structure and the BCBHSBBA has its reasons for requiring adherence to rules for its tournament.

Life is full of situations that are unfair and no amount of argument or persuasion will change those facts. We must live with that reality. However, when faced with an unfair situation, where this is a possibility of change, there is nothing heroic or worthy in giving up in the face of opposition. In fact that is meekness defined.

Whether someone else thinks I should just take-in-on-the-chin is really irrelevant - I believe the situation is unfair, so I will challenge the status quo. Part of integrity is fighting for what you believe and not giving up in the face of opposition.

I am not persuaded by hoopnharm’s encouragement to simply be “a real man” and “walk away with your held high”. This is what people should do in fair competitions or faced with the reality of an unchangeable situation.

To take hoopnharm’s opinion to its logical conclusion, he believes it builds character to accept unfair situations (in fact to seek them out and make them worse because it increases their character-building qualities) and remain silent because it “makes you a real man”.

Part of building character and having integrity is not only having the courage to make your arguments and stand by principles, but to be seen to do so. It is comically ironic, and a point that is lost on hoopnharm, that he is delivering a lecture on character when hiding behind a fake name.

I guess that is one of life’s “valuable lessons”.
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stocktonsshorts



Posts : 72
Join date : 2010-03-13

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:31 pm

We REALLY need some basketball games... SOON!!
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JLivingston



Posts : 214
Join date : 2010-06-03

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:41 pm

stocktonsshorts wrote:
We REALLY need some basketball games... SOON!!

oh yeah!!! tired of the fighting..bet some of thes guys are lawyers..
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Mark Scott



Posts : 286
Join date : 2011-01-05

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:53 pm



Book publisher actually. And I am tired of the argument as well. Bring on the games!
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JLivingston



Posts : 214
Join date : 2010-06-03

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:03 pm

Mark Scott wrote:


Book publisher actually. And I am tired of the argument as well. Bring on the games!

yup.. provincials this year at LEC will blow away everyone..the arena is very grandeur.
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baller1000



Posts : 76
Join date : 2010-03-11

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:30 pm

JLivingston wrote:
stocktonsshorts wrote:
We REALLY need some basketball games... SOON!!

oh yeah!!! tired of the fighting..bet some of thes guys are lawyers..

We are all tired of the fighting.

It is interesting to note that these same Lower Mainland Schools can get along in other sports. Also, that privates can compete in the same basketball leagues as public schools at other levels (A and AA) and compete in other areas
at all levels including AAA (Surrey).

It is difficult to not draw a conclusion that the situation has more to do with the people involved (ie LM coaches) rather than some sort of endemic problem with public vs private.

So as long as one particular group, particularly LM coaches, continue in their quest to exclude and isolate 2 private schools that compete in their zone, you may expect the fighting and debate to continue.
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Sportvictoria



Posts : 544
Join date : 2010-11-28
Age : 47
Location : Victoria BC Canada

PostSubject: Where we're headed...   Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:01 pm

Where we're headed is what has happened in a lot of US cities that have had the same issues and it should be said that I DO NOT WANT TO GO THERE.

Where we are headed is a private school championship and a public school championship where the private schools have no catchment areas and can recruit to their heart's content and the public schools have very stringent rules on player eligibility/transfers.

I see this a lot in different US cities - it is common-place in the Eastern US.

I do not want to see that here. But I'm afraid it's coming. Each year it seems to be picking up steam.


Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria
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