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 Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results

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Who will won the "AAA" Lower Mainlands
Bby South
38%
 38% [ 11 ]
Palmer
24%
 24% [ 7 ]
VC
10%
 10% [ 3 ]
Tupper
14%
 14% [ 4 ]
Kits
7%
 7% [ 2 ]
Byrne Creek
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Other
7%
 7% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 29
 

AuthorMessage
Pooch



Posts : 131
Join date : 2011-03-09

PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:49 am

Hi Lyle,

You obviously know a great deal about the high school scene and that is great for this forum, but I think you are wrong regarding last year and St. Georges. I think they finished behind VC in their league and that was it. No playoff at all.
They were provincially the third highest ranked team from the Lower Mainland, so to many people it seemed unfair that they would have no opportunity to compete for a spot at the BC's while many teams not even ranked would. Clearly for the LM zone, Saint Georges was one of their major competitors for a spot.
If we want our best teams in, then it was not happening and most know it is for political reasons.
That is why I was happy to see a body who care only about the BC's being the best it can be stepped in and said the LM zone had to offer some chance to a team that the rankings would show could have a realistic shot at getting a berth to the BC's. Not a second chance. A chance.
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Trey



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:30 am

Pooch wrote:
Hi Lyle,

You obviously know a great deal about the high school scene and that is great for this forum, but I think you are wrong regarding last year and St. Georges. I think they finished behind VC in their league and that was it. No playoff at all.
They were provincially the third highest ranked team from the Lower Mainland, so to many people it seemed unfair that they would have no opportunity to compete for a spot at the BC's while many teams not even ranked would. Clearly for the LM zone, Saint Georges was one of their major competitors for a spot.
If we want our best teams in, then it was not happening and most know it is for political reasons.
That is why I was happy to see a body who care only about the BC's being the best it can be stepped in and said the LM zone had to offer some chance to a team that the rankings would show could have a realistic shot at getting a berth to the BC's. Not a second chance. A chance.

What are the political reasons? Seems like if there are they come from both sides of the debate because there was definitely some strong arming going on to get this play in approved. Law suits? Removing sponsorships? Rumours abound. I don't think we're going resolve this debate here and eventually all the details of how this was pout into motion will emerge. It seems that some feel that Saints deserves a second chance at making making Provincials while some don't.

As far as the argument about this being about letting kids play, they can play. Last year when there was only 4 berths and Kitsilano, a higher ranked team than many others who made Provincials didn't qualify. No play in. No complaining about entitlement. Instead, I think Kits organized and hosted a tournament for other non qulaifiers from around the region. Maybe this is something that Saints would consider doing in the interest of giving kids a chance to play. This is not a public vs. private thing at all. It's a matter of playing by the rules and learning to accept defeat with class.


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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Excellence   Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:22 pm



After listening to all of the discussion here, it seems to me that there needs to be an at-large system to allocate (using a fair competition) a significant number of berths for the provincials. Clearly there are too many conflicts in the current system that enable anti-competitive behaviour. Associations are naturally working in their self-interest and no reasonable arguments are going to persuade them to do anything to provide fairer competition. Add to the mix, the hostility (outright and hidden) and bigotry that you see on this site against independent schools and there is not much room for change.

It is good to see that BCHSBBA stepped in to bring some objectivity and fairness to the system. They need to go further. The berthing system is clearly not working and needs a major overhaul. The AAA championship should ensure that teams from all regions have an opportunity to compete against the best teams in the province. It is not only about being inclusive, it is also about promoting and rewarding excellence.



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Trey



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:41 pm

Mark Scott wrote:


After listening to all of the discussion here, it seems to me that there needs to be an at-large system to allocate (using a fair competition) a significant number of berths for the provincials. Clearly there are too many conflicts in the current system that enable anti-competitive behaviour. Associations are naturally working in their self-interest and no reasonable arguments are going to persuade them to do anything to provide fairer competition. Add to the mix, the hostility (outright and hidden) and bigotry that you see on this site against independent schools and there is not much room for change.

It is good to see that BCHSBBA stepped in to bring some objectivity and fairness to the system. They need to go further. The berthing system is clearly not working and needs a major overhaul. The AAA championship should ensure that teams from all regions have an opportunity to compete against the best teams in the province. It is not only about being inclusive, it is also about promoting and rewarding excellence.




Rewarding excellence? Saints is not excellent. I didn't see them play much this year because they either weren't invited to or chose not to take part in any of the high profile tournaments like the Beagle, Pitt Airshow, Emerald etc. I followed Palmer mostly and they are excellent. South, VC, Fox, Kelowna can also be described as excellent. Play-in opinions aside, from what I saw of Saints in game one was that they did not deserve their #10 ranking. They are young, they work hard but can't shoot. They have a really weak bench which is surprising consdiering how many kids go to Saints to play basketball. Their coaching is good despite having their team defend the wrong basket in a crucial game after half time. They should be good next year. They weren't good enough to earn a berth against VC this year and they weren't good enough to qualify for Provincials. I could care less about Public or Private school affiliation, that is a straw man argument. Best of luck to everyone from Saints next year, if you beat 1 team you make it to the big dance, I'd take those odds
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:00 pm

Trey wrote:
Mark Scott wrote:


After listening to all of the discussion here, it seems to me that there needs to be an at-large system to allocate (using a fair competition) a significant number of berths for the provincials. Clearly there are too many conflicts in the current system that enable anti-competitive behaviour. Associations are naturally working in their self-interest and no reasonable arguments are going to persuade them to do anything to provide fairer competition. Add to the mix, the hostility (outright and hidden) and bigotry that you see on this site against independent schools and there is not much room for change.

It is good to see that BCHSBBA stepped in to bring some objectivity and fairness to the system. They need to go further. The berthing system is clearly not working and needs a major overhaul. The AAA championship should ensure that teams from all regions have an opportunity to compete against the best teams in the province. It is not only about being inclusive, it is also about promoting and rewarding excellence.




Rewarding excellence? Saints is not excellent. I didn't see them play much this year because they either weren't invited to or chose not to take part in any of the high profile tournaments like the Beagle, Pitt Airshow, Emerald etc. I followed Palmer mostly and they are excellent. South, VC, Fox, Kelowna can also be described as excellent. Play-in opinions aside, from what I saw of Saints in game one was that they did not deserve their #10 ranking. They are young, they work hard but can't shoot. They have a really weak bench which is surprising consdiering how many kids go to Saints to play basketball. Their coaching is good despite having their team defend the wrong basket in a crucial game after half time. They should be good next year. They weren't good enough to earn a berth against VC this year and they weren't good enough to qualify for Provincials. I could care less about Public or Private school affiliation, that is a straw man argument. Best of luck to everyone from Saints next year, if you beat 1 team you make it to the big dance, I'd take those odds


Mr. Trey (or whatever your real name is), I was not talking about St. George's when I made reference to excellence, I was referring to promoting excellence among all schools, coaches and players. It is your own prejudice that was revealed here (while claiming you do not care about Public versus Private). It is exactly the kind of knee-jerk reactions you just made that we need less of.


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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:22 pm

Trey wrote:
Sportvictoria wrote:
cbosh4 wrote:
Trey wrote:
Kits deserved to be there after beating DT on Saturday. Saints was ranked too high and didn't deserve to have this play in. Good for Kits and hopefully people will realize that nobody deserves anything in sports and hopefully we will find out what happened behind the scenes to push this decision through. Congrats to Kits, you were put through the ringer on this and someone should apologize for this mess. Wish I could have seen the game, hopefully the Saints players and supporters were classy in defeat. I heard that Saints defended the wrong basket at the start of the second half, is that true?

Kits has tried pulling off that "move" in a lot of games, even succeeding in some. They get on the court before the other team and pretend to be going the other way. Then one player cuts towards the hoop with no one there and scores.


I saw Kits do that a few times... including in the BC seems a few years back.

I used it about 5 or 6 times when I was coaching at Belmont and it worked (positive results) every time. The kids really got jazzed up by running it - it really motivated them. I think only once we didn't get the bucket and that one time we got the foul and our point guard made both foul-shots.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria

That's pretty sneaky. One may argue that if a team, their coaches, managers and their fans all don't notice that being pulled then maybe they aren't ready to compete at the elite Provincial level. Very Happy

Everyone gets so intense and focused you can slip one by them every once and a while. You can't do it on a regular basis but it is amazing how often it can work. We actually did it twice in one game once. Got and easy bucket the first time and a 2-shot foul out of it the second time.

I could not believe it when I saw Kits do it the first time... then I think last year, I saw it done against Kits in a game - and it worked.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:37 pm

Mark Scott wrote:


After listening to all of the discussion here, it seems to me that there needs to be an at-large system to allocate (using a fair competition) a significant number of berths for the provincials. Clearly there are too many conflicts in the current system that enable anti-competitive behaviour. Associations are naturally working in their self-interest and no reasonable arguments are going to persuade them to do anything to provide fairer competition. Add to the mix, the hostility (outright and hidden) and bigotry that you see on this site against independent schools and there is not much room for change.

It is good to see that BCHSBBA stepped in to bring some objectivity and fairness to the system. They need to go further. The berthing system is clearly not working and needs a major overhaul. The AAA championship should ensure that teams from all regions have an opportunity to compete against the best teams in the province. It is not only about being inclusive, it is also about promoting and rewarding excellence.



Mark,

The system does work right now. Everyone is treated equally based on population. Berths to spread out equally based on that.

What you don't like is, due to previous history, that St. George's and Vancouver College are not allowed into the Lower Mainland leagues.

I'm sure that if those two private schools would honour catchment areas (the way that public schools have to) and follow the same rules with regards to player eligibility then they would be allowed to compete in the Lower Mainland leagues.

You need to be taking your case to the private schools and to the Lower Mainland sports council.

If the private schools would be willing to work within the same rules that the public schools are required to I'm sure that things would change. History unfortunately has shown a different path.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria

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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:45 pm

Pooch wrote:
Hi Lyle,

You obviously know a great deal about the high school scene and that is great for this forum, but I think you are wrong regarding last year and St. Georges. I think they finished behind VC in their league and that was it. No playoff at all.
They were provincially the third highest ranked team from the Lower Mainland, so to many people it seemed unfair that they would have no opportunity to compete for a spot at the BC's while many teams not even ranked would. Clearly for the LM zone, Saint Georges was one of their major competitors for a spot.
If we want our best teams in, then it was not happening and most know it is for political reasons.
That is why I was happy to see a body who care only about the BC's being the best it can be stepped in and said the LM zone had to offer some chance to a team that the rankings would show could have a realistic shot at getting a berth to the BC's. Not a second chance. A chance.


Pooch,

It's still a second chance no matter how you slice it as the league winner goes. However the two schools decide the structure is up to them. If St. George's has to beat Vancouver College to go, then that is what has to happen. If they fail to do that then that is their chance.

There are always years that good teams fail to make it. Seaquam was #2 in BC one year and didn't make it out of the Valley, Mouat was #1 two years later and never made out out. Boucherie and Kits last year, Enver Creek, South Kam, Claremont this year.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:14 pm

Sportvictoria wrote:
Mark Scott wrote:


After listening to all of the discussion here, it seems to me that there needs to be an at-large system to allocate (using a fair competition) a significant number of berths for the provincials. Clearly there are too many conflicts in the current system that enable anti-competitive behaviour. Associations are naturally working in their self-interest and no reasonable arguments are going to persuade them to do anything to provide fairer competition. Add to the mix, the hostility (outright and hidden) and bigotry that you see on this site against independent schools and there is not much room for change.

It is good to see that BCHSBBA stepped in to bring some objectivity and fairness to the system. They need to go further. The berthing system is clearly not working and needs a major overhaul. The AAA championship should ensure that teams from all regions have an opportunity to compete against the best teams in the province. It is not only about being inclusive, it is also about promoting and rewarding excellence.



Mark,

The system does work right now. Everyone is treated equally based on population. Berths to spread out equally based on that.

What you don't like is, due to previous history, that St. George's and Vancouver College are not allowed into the Lower Mainland leagues.

I'm sure that if those two private schools would honour catchment areas (the way that public schools have to) and follow the same rules with regards to player eligibility then they would be allowed to compete in the Lower Mainland leagues.

You need to be taking your case to the private schools and to the Lower Mainland sports council.

If the private schools would be willing to work within the same rules that the public schools are required to I'm sure that things would change. History unfortunately has shown a different path.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria


Lyle,
I do not agree the system works. Handsworth should have had an opportunity to play-in for the provincials when Rob Sacre was playing. Saints should have had the same opportunity last year. There are other schools that are trapped behind a top-ranked team in some of the regions. If you think that is fair, then we have a fundamental difference about what is fair.

The reason I am engaged in this debate is because my son attends St. George's and I see the very real possibility that his team could be the second best team in the province every year and not get an opportunity to compete at a provincial championships. This is what happened to the grade 8 team at St. George's this year for different reasons (it is an invitational tournament, with no wildcards, and not a true provincial championship). Grade 8 basketball is not very important, but is an indication of what is to come.

So your claim now is that it the independents unwillingness to change their admission rules is why the Lower Mainland will not permit them to compete? Meaning: if you were just a bit less independent we would compete with you. And what player eligibility rules are you talking about? The independents seem to satisfy all of the catchment and eligibility rules necessary to compete at the provincial level. Why is the Lower Mainland using their own definition of who is eligible to compete? Reason: they are understandably interested in limiting competition for scarce berths.

It is clear to me that no argument will persuade those who do not like independents to set aside that bias. It is also clear that the Lower Mainland will not permit independents to compete for berths.

Again, I am pleased to see the BCHSBBA step in to bring some objectivity and fairness to the system. They need to go further and revise the system so that any trapped high ranking team (public or independent) has an opportunity to play-in using a clear, reasonable (not four games in four days) process set-out well in advance.
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Lefon Jang



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:47 pm

Here is what Sportvictoria said in one post:

“I put forward a system about 6 or 7 years ago that I felt would have helped solve some of the issues we’re seeing now. Four at large berths would be awarded to strong teams that did not make it out of their regions. Or at least a half berth to eight teams and they all could have had a 1-game playoff for the last four berths.”

Here is what Sportvictoria said to Mark Scott:
“The system does work right now. Everyone is treated equally based on population. Berths to spread out equally based on that.”

What Sportvictoria is really saying is that we should give all the strong teams that did not make it out of their regions a chance except St. George’s. Is this a one-man crusade to alienate St. George’s from playing in the Provincial or does this represent the view of Sportvictoria?
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Spectator



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PostSubject: What Sportvictoria is really saying is that we should give all the strong teams that did not make it out of their regions a chance except St. George’s. Is this a one-man crusade to alienate St. George’s from playing in the Provincial or does this represen   Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:38 pm

Independents get one berth...that is the rules. Like double dribble, like travelling. If you want to change the rules, then all the members must be involved in the decision, and the transfer/recruiting rules must apply to independents as they do public schools. Kits have a great player that transfered this year...can't play for a year, he has kept the bench very warm.... they live with it. Kits had a great team last year...they lost their berth, they were upset, but they didnt try to change the rules, they sucked it up and got on with life. If all the pro- backdoor Saint George Moms and Dads think it was fair to rob Kits (or whomever else) of their rightly earned berth , why didnt you allow it bchsbba decsion to go to arbitration. third party examines all the evidence and makes a decision? Lower mainland suggested it and agreed to abide by a third party ruling, an amiable gesture considering circumstances. What is the rest of the lower mainland league supposed to think?
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Trey



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:02 pm

I guess this meeting on the 19th will address some of the issues with berths etc. and the rest of us can look forward to watching some quality basketball. Like in all sports, some good teams often don't make the playoffs, The Blue Jays could be the fourth best team i baseball and not be in the post season, that is how it goes sometimes in sports and life.

I would like to give the Saints supporters here the beneft of the doubt that it was an innate sense of fairness that compelled BCHSBBA to propose the play in but I can't do so with a striaght face. I am sure we'll all find out what came into play in arriving at this decision eventually but to recap events so far:

Saints failed to beat VC to qualify for Lower Mainlands. They were given a very generous second chance to play in by having to win 4 straight games. So what, it's a tournament and Kits had a tougher road having played more games against better teams. Saints lost to Kits fair and square in the second game and were lucky to win the first. They weren't as good as the 5th place qualifier of Lower Mainlands and I can guarantee you they aren't as good as the top 4. Let's stop the whining and the paranoia about Private school bias and accept the fact that St. Georges did not qualify for the 2011 AAA High School Boys Provincial Basketball Championships because they simply were not good enough.

Let's talk about the games and let this puppy die. Best of luck to all the LM qualifiers in Langley, they are 5 solid teams who will represent the district well. Better luck next year to Saints who should be a great team and hopefully they can remember which hoop to defend in big games in the future.
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:03 pm

Lefon Jang wrote:
Here is what Sportvictoria said in one post:

“I put forward a system about 6 or 7 years ago that I felt would have helped solve some of the issues we’re seeing now. Four at large berths would be awarded to strong teams that did not make it out of their regions. Or at least a half berth to eight teams and they all could have had a 1-game playoff for the last four berths.”

Here is what Sportvictoria said to Mark Scott:
“The system does work right now. Everyone is treated equally based on population. Berths to spread out equally based on that.”

What Sportvictoria is really saying is that we should give all the strong teams that did not make it out of their regions a chance except St. George’s. Is this a one-man crusade to alienate St. George’s from playing in the Provincial or does this represent the view of Sportvictoria?


Lefon,

I voiced an opinion that the same rules should apply across the board - this you seem to disagree with given your tone and attitude. You also appear to be trying to make this personal when it is not.

I had nothing to do with the set up of the Lower Mainland playoff structure; I had nothing to do with the Vancouver Athletic Association's view of Vancouver College or St. George's. If you have issues with how the Vancouver Athletic Association views Vancouver College or St. George's then I suggest you put the effort into contacting them directly.

You continue to try to pull me into to this like I was a key player - which I have never represented myself to be - in this dispute.

I never said anything like "we should give all the strong teams that did not make it out of their regions a chance except St. George’s". That is purely your slanderous take because you don't like the reality of the situation.

I also asked you why St. George's should get a 2nd shot when other teams in the same situation do not. You seem to refuse to answer this simple question.

Your two excerpts are on two totally different subjects and when you only show a truncated version, are totally out of context.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria
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Spectator



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PostSubject: Subject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results    Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:23 pm

Mr. Jang/Mr. Scott
You gentlemen are making the same mistake as your team did at the start of the second half...you are guarding the wrong basket. This controversy has nothing to do with St. George's ability to play, you have a great team....it is all about fairness and the same rules apply to everybody. Nobody should be able to strong arm, however it was done to the BCHSBBA, I guess we will find out soon. There are many members in the Lower Mainland Basketball association who most definitely have rights and opinions and ultimately VOTES as well.
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:39 pm


Spectator, I am no longer going to respond to posters such as yourself who do not have the courage to stand behind their comments in public. Most of the juvenile and taunting comments come from people who quiver behind pseudonyms.
Mark Scott
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Spectator



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PostSubject: Spectator, I am no longer going to respond to posters such as yourself who do not have the courage to stand behind their comments in public. Most of the juvenile and taunting comments come from people who quiver behind pseudonyms   Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:50 pm

You said you woudn't respond, you did. Guarding the wrong hoop is one issue, now you attack the messenger? My comment was polite and to the point. Sorry I got under your skin. My name is Bruce Hampson, I am not a coach, just a spectator.
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teachmehowtotravel



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:45 pm

can some one explain why independent league was reduced to 1 berth for lower mainland tournament? coincidentally the season after the saints/vc finals at the agrodome.
perhaps thats why saints feel they're being treated unfairly
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hoopnharm



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:18 pm

Mark Scott wrote:
Sportvictoria wrote:
Mark Scott wrote:


After listening to all of the discussion here, it seems to me that there needs to be an at-large system to allocate (using a fair competition) a significant number of berths for the provincials. Clearly there are too many conflicts in the current system that enable anti-competitive behaviour. Associations are naturally working in their self-interest and no reasonable arguments are going to persuade them to do anything to provide fairer competition. Add to the mix, the hostility (outright and hidden) and bigotry that you see on this site against independent schools and there is not much room for change.

It is good to see that BCHSBBA stepped in to bring some objectivity and fairness to the system. They need to go further. The berthing system is clearly not working and needs a major overhaul. The AAA championship should ensure that teams from all regions have an opportunity to compete against the best teams in the province. It is not only about being inclusive, it is also about promoting and rewarding excellence.



Mark,

The system does work right now. Everyone is treated equally based on population. Berths to spread out equally based on that.

What you don't like is, due to previous history, that St. George's and Vancouver College are not allowed into the Lower Mainland leagues.

I'm sure that if those two private schools would honour catchment areas (the way that public schools have to) and follow the same rules with regards to player eligibility then they would be allowed to compete in the Lower Mainland leagues.

You need to be taking your case to the private schools and to the Lower Mainland sports council.

If the private schools would be willing to work within the same rules that the public schools are required to I'm sure that things would change. History unfortunately has shown a different path.

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria


Lyle,
I do not agree the system works. Handsworth should have had an opportunity to play-in for the provincials when Rob Sacre was playing. Saints should have had the same opportunity last year. There are other schools that are trapped behind a top-ranked team in some of the regions. If you think that is fair, then we have a fundamental difference about what is fair.



Please. What kind of terrible revisionist history is this? Who was "trapping" Handsworth? They lost to West Van, an inferior team, twice, and that was that. Handsworth deserved to sit at home for choking so horribly.

If you're a high ranking team and you're unable to justify your ranking by beating teams ranked lower than you in your zone playoffs, why should there be a second chance? How is it encouraging excellence to let these kids think that if they fail at some aspect of their life, they are going to get bailed out with a second chance? Second chances don't happen often in real life and you are doing these kids no favors by offering them loopholes to get what they want after they've failed at something.

As for Saints, their mandate at this time is clear: they must beat VC to make the lower mainland tournament. If they fail to do so, too bad. If you are so afraid of your son not being able to play at the provincials because VC is too strong, transfer then. But think about what sort of message that would be sending to your son? Better focus your efforts on making your son the best player he can be so Saints will have a chance to beat VC, rather than whining on message boards about how the whole world is out to get private schools.

Maybe one day in the future, lower mainland public schools will stop getting their kids poached by the private schools and certain public schools, and there will be more parity so that these public schools will actually want to compete in the lower mainland tournament as a lower seeded team instead of always getting smoked like they have been in recent years. More teams means the problem's solved, expand the tourney to 16 teams and allowing 2 spots for the private schools once again. But that's just wishful thinking, everyone knows that this won't happen Very Happy
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Mark Scott



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:45 pm


I am going to respond to the post from hoopnharm briefly. I identified myself as a parent of a St. George's player to give context to my comments - I think that is fair. I also use my real name because I think everyone should be prepared to stand behind their own statements.

I do not think hoopnharm is in a position, particularly real-nameless as he is, to give me instruction on what advice I should be giving my son. In future, please stick to the topic, not giving parental advice.

I look forward to discussing real alternatives to a divisive problem with real people.
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coach fabio



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:57 pm

Saints lost to VC they had a chance to qualify and they didn't tough luck. I don't understand why we are still talking about saints they lost to VC and they got a second chance vs Kits and lost how many more chances do you want? If you lose in your zone u shouldn't be in provincials, it may seem unfair but that is the way it works.
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:05 pm

Can anyone explain why these same schools are able to compete in other sports like football without all this drama?
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baller1000



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:08 pm


From the Vancouver Courier

Jock & Jill: Wildcard controversy


BY MEGAN STEWART, VANCOUVER COURIER MARCH 9, 2011


If I were wearing a hat, I'd tip it to the basketball players who dressed this week for the St. George's Saints and Kitsilano Blue Demons. These athletes--teenaged but many of them manly in appearance and occasionally even in demeanour--played two feverishly charged games to keep their season alive. Both surely feel they're the most deserving of the fifth regional berth to the 20-seed Provincials.

Advocates for and against the wildcard play-in argue these athletes are paying the greatest price should they not advance. I'm exhausted by this argument and I'll ask again: Which athletes, exactly? Either way, as one parent wrote on the topic of winners and losers: "If the goal is to allow kids to become the best they can at a sport, they need to play the toughest games they can. Great players are often made in the losses not the wins."

Too true. The team that advances and the team that doesn't will both taste the bittersweet effect of adult politics. Through various mechanisms of different league and zone draws, tournaments and play-ins, historical standards and new precedents, the B.C. Boys High School Basketball Association has landed in this mess that has more finger pointing than a preschool class at a petting zoo. Parents, coaches, athletic directors and voting board members with the basketball association are increasingly tightlipped. Off the record, some sense an escalation that may lead to legal action.

Manipulation of the Lower Mainland tournament, which saw the draw drop from 16 to 12 teams, coupled with the departure of one of only three basketball programs from the independent school league at the AAA level, left Vancouver College and St. George's to battle for a single berth instead of two entries to Lower Mainlands last year and again this winter.

If this precedent continues, one of the perennially top 20 B.C. teams won't advance to Provincials. But a proportional and regional berthing formula has traditionally drawn teams from across the province, even if those teams don't rank and rarely contend. The tournament is having an identity crisis.

The association will hash it out at an AGM March 19 but strong-arming the Lower Mainland executive again will lead to resentment and ill will. Collateral damage includes fans of amateur sport. One wrote to tell me the "Saints play-in [is] causing weird vibes."

Although the Saints were eliminated from advancing to the Lower Mainlands, their roster and team photo appear in the 32-page tournament program. "Figure that one out," deadpanned one public school coach. Another said he was "furious."

Are influential public school coaches determined to prevent the private schools from advancing over their own programs, as some outsiders contend? Do ideology or envy factor in? Is it accurate that parents who send their child to a high school that charges thousands in tuition don't pay to lose, as others have suggested? Does entitlement factor in?

We know both these teams are excellent, deserving and the basketball they played this week superb. I can see one price the players pay: their athletic achievements are robbed of full attention and acclaim because of controversy. Point your fingers.

mstewart@vancourier.com



Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/sports/Jock+Jill+Wildcard+controversy/4409616/story.html#ixzz1GA80WMv9
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Sportvictoria



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:36 pm

teachmehowtotravel wrote:
can some one explain why independent league was reduced to 1 berth for lower mainland tournament? coincidentally the season after the saints/vc finals at the agrodome.
perhaps thats why saints feel they're being treated unfairly


Teach,

You need to go back and read through all the various posts for the past few days here... your answer will be there as well as several different opinions on the subject.

BTW - as far as "teaching you how to travel"... point the car east... hit the gas... enjoy Smile

Lyle Dhur
Sportvictoria
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Pooch



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:29 pm

Thanks to Megan Stewart and Baller 1000.
A well written and rational piece.
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JLivingston



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PostSubject: Re: Lower Mainland AAA Draw and Results   Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:07 am

Altho this issue is beyond my grasp, as a player this stuff is just tiring and all you respectful big guys have gone sideways instead of talking about next weeks provincials. Sorry do not bash me for writing this.
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